Nadal: 2010 vs. 2013

[calitennis127]

Nadal's movement in 2010 was not better than in 2013. This is a notion peddled by people who look at the age number first and the reality on the court second.

We had one poster very notoriously declare in the early months of 2013 that Nadal didn't cover the court as well anymore. His evidence? A 2005 highlight of Nadal hitting a defensive forehand winner against Federer off of an inside-out forehand from Federer. What was very funny about that is that just about three or four days after the poster made that comment Nadal hit the exact same shot in the IW quarterfinal against Federer, on a faster court than Roland Garros no less.

Nadal was not a better mover in 2010. I think he "moved" a little better during the North American hard court swing last year than he did against Murray and Bagdatis in Toronto and Cincinnati in the summer of 2010.

 

[brokenshoelace]

A 27 year old guy who's been on the tour for ages, goes deep in virtually every tournament, has had multiple injuries, and was just returning from a seven months layoff, after which he ADMITTED he wasn't happy with how he moved a few months into his return (right until the middle of the clay court season), moves just as well as his 24 year old self... The same 27 year old who, after winning the US Open, talked about how "I can't run like before."

Yes, watching Nadal against Steve Darcis was a clear indicator that he still moved like his younger self. I mean, it was so obvious.

I think there's a better case for JR Smith being the most talented BB player in the world, David Nalbandian being the most tennis player of all time, and the Washington Wizards being the most talented team in the Eastern Conference, personally.

 

[TsarMatt]

It's a really good question because both were absolutely remarkable seasons. Still, I might have to give the edge to 2013 based purely on expectations alone. I, alongside many others, expected very little of him last year, especially since he returned from that 6-7 month knee injury (the severity of it was unknown, but I asserted that he probably wouldn't ever win a Masters 1000 or a GS on HCs ever again). But what he accomplished was amazing. Two GS and a handful of Master 1000s? That's just excellent. 2010 was great, too, don't get me wrong, but I wasn't as surprised by that great run as I was in 2013.

Based on expectations, there's no contest. 2013 takes it hands down. It is a more memorable season in many ways, all things considered.

But, to provide context, what prompted this thread was someone claiming Nadal was a "much better player" in 2013, which I disagreed with. As far as level of play goes, especially across all surfaces (I concede he was better on hards last year), Nadal was better in 2010. The serving and movement in particular stand out.

Yeah, I wouldn't agree that Nadal was a "much better player" in 2013. He did have a much more effective serve and generally moved quicker in 2010, but they're still pretty close.

 

[calitennis127]

A 27 year old guy who's been on the tour for ages, goes deep in virtually every tournament, has had multiple injuries, and was just returning from a seven months layoff, after which he ADMITTED he wasn't happy with how he moved a few months into his return (right until the middle of the clay court season), moves just as well as his 24 year old self... The same 27 year old who, after winning the US Open, talked about how "I can't run like before."

Yes, watching Nadal against Steve Darcis was a clear indicator that he still moved like his younger self. I mean, it was so obvious.

I think there's a better case for JR Smith being the most talented BB player in the world, David Nalbandian being the most tennis player of all time, and the Washington Wizards being the most talented team in the Eastern Conference, personally.

Please don't talk about basketball because you know nothing about it. The Wizards certainly had the most talent in the Eastern Conference besides the Knicks. Unfortunately, in basketball there is this thing called coaching that comes into play.

So it's all about the Darcis match? Talk about cherry-picking. Compare Nadal in Montreal 2013 to Nadal in Toronto 2010. Look at the 2010 Bagdatis QF in Cincinnati. Do those matches not count for anything?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Well, I mean, "talk about cherry picking" only to...cherry pick. Makes perfect sense.

On average, there is no way Nadal moves as well as he used to. That's a point he admitted to himself, so this debate is about what exactly? That he still moves great? Yeah, he does.

 

[calitennis127]

Nadal had a better overall season in 2013 than 2010, and he pulled off an incredible feat on the North American hard court swing that not even Federer or Djokovic have. His overall level was consistently far more dominant than in 2010.

Old players need more recovery time, right? Then how did Nadal win 2 MS titles in 2 weeks? Was he taking something, or perhaps do you set the age limit for tennis peaking way too low?

What about Ferrer? Did he move better at 25 than 31? You'd have to be smoking something to say that he did.

 

[calitennis127]

Also, the myth of Nadal's 2010 invincibility during the US Open never ceases to crack me up. It isn't as bad as the silly praise heaped on the San Antonio Spurs, but it is astonishingly one-sided and distorted nonetheless.

 

[Kieran]

Also, the myth of Nadal's 2010 invincibility during the US Open never ceases to crack me up. It isn't as bad as the silly praise heaped on the San Antonio Spurs, but it is astonishingly one-sided and distorted nonetheless.

He dropped his serve four times - and lost only one set. That's not bad, eh?

And he was proven to be invincible at that event, since he didn't lose...

 

[Kieran]

Nadal had a better overall season in 2013 than 2010, and he pulled off an incredible feat on the North American hard court swing that not even Federer or Djokovic have. His overall level was consistently far more dominant than in 2010.

Old players need more recovery time, right? Then how did Nadal win 2 MS titles in 2 weeks? Was he taking something, or perhaps do you set the age limit for tennis peaking way too low?

What about Ferrer? Did he move better at 25 than 31? You'd have to be smoking something to say that he did.

I think Rafa's US HC swing last year benefited from him losing in the first round at Wimbledon.

Which is a better year, Cali: 3 slams (on 3 different surfaces, which is a record) or 2 slams?

 

[brokenshoelace]

We're talking about Nadal's movement, so an actual argument invoked is "what about Ferrer?"...

Yeah, let's move on...

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

^ And don't forget Roger's bathroom break in the 2010 AO quarterfinal against Davydenko, when he was getting his ass handed to him by the Russian. Roger was bothered by the sun, so he took a longer than necessary bathroom break to give it time to pass. He even admitted this was a tactic.

"When the sun comes from the side, the ball seems half the size and is just hard to hit. I never take toilet breaks, but I thought 'Why not?'

I just hoped that with every minute it took, the sun would move another centimeter."

"the strong sun made the tennis sphere go tiny and unhittable..so I scuttled offcourt and hovvered around in the toilets for a bit".

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

"Curious case of Rafael Nadal" Wasn't that a movie, where he got younger as he aged or something?

 

[Kieran]

"Curious case of Rafael Nadal" Wasn't that a movie, where he got younger as he aged or something?

No. That's "The Curious Case of Benjamin Becker..." :snigger

 

[Front242]

^ It's also a great blog. Read it. Very insightful.

 

[calitennis127]

We're talking about Nadal's movement, so an actual argument invoked is "what about Ferrer?"...

Yeah, let's move on...

Yeah, let's move on from responding to the recovery time argument or addressing Nadal's performance at the important summer hard court events 2010 v. 2013.

Let's do that. Nadal was 27 in 2013; therefore he was slower.

 

[calitennis127]

Nadal had a better overall season in 2013 than 2010, and he pulled off an incredible feat on the North American hard court swing that not even Federer or Djokovic have. His overall level was consistently far more dominant than in 2010.

Old players need more recovery time, right? Then how did Nadal win 2 MS titles in 2 weeks? Was he taking something, or perhaps do you set the age limit for tennis peaking way too low?

What about Ferrer? Did he move better at 25 than 31? You'd have to be smoking something to say that he did.

I think Rafa's US HC swing last year benefited from him losing in the first round at Wimbledon.

Which is a better year, Cali: 3 slams (on 3 different surfaces, which is a record) or 2 slams?

If all you're talking about is Slams, then 2010 was better. But Slams aren't the only events on the calendar.

 

[calitennis127]

Also, the myth of Nadal's 2010 invincibility during the US Open never ceases to crack me up. It isn't as bad as the silly praise heaped on the San Antonio Spurs, but it is astonishingly one-sided and distorted nonetheless.

He dropped his serve four times - and lost only one set. That's not bad, eh?

And he was proven to be invincible at that event, since he didn't lose...

See, this is the type of pro-Nadal bias that utterly defies rationality. Here you are, Kieran, as someone who says Federer was never challenged by meaningful opponents during his heyday, and then you also have the audacity to talk up Nadal's mostly boring run through arguably the weakest slate of opponents he ever had to get through to win a Slam?

If this was Federer, you would be overjoyed at me pointing out that Nadal's QF and SF opponents were Verdasco and Youznhy coming off of 5-set, 4-plus-hour marathons the round before, and the Verdasco match was played with temperatures in the 50's and gusty winds, conditions that obviously favor Nadal immensely over Verdasco. Given all the excuses you make for Nadal's losses (such as the 2009 USO loss to Delpo), it is astounding that you would neglect the physical condition of Verdasco and Youzhny in those two matches leading to the final.

I don't think any single run has been more overhyped as something greater than it was than Nadal at the 2010 US Open.

 

[Front242]

^ What exactly is wrong with getting medical attention after losing a match? How does this compare to questionable (at best) MTO's when the other player has momentum during a match?

We're not talking about getting medical attention after losing a match. Front misspoke. Fed took a MTO after the FOURTH set v. Safin. Roger had a MP in the 4th, which Marat saved, then went on to win the set, and take it to the decider. At which point, Roger took a MTO for his back. So, yes, good question: what about a MTO when the other player has momentum in the match?

It seems unfair to be outraged by one, and yet withhold it for another.

Front misspoke? I quoted your typo lol. You initially said 5th set not me. For the record though watch any of Fed's matches where he took MTOs (there are very few) and you'll see his back was clearly not allowing him proper movement when serving. Now compare that to a guy with no apparent differences before and after people looking at his supposedly injured knee where he continues to run like a gazelle just as before. It's chalk v cheese. Again, there's a reason the other players didn't vote him for the Stefan Edberg sportmanship award more than once and that year was probably them just feeling sorry for him.

 

[Kieran]

Hey Front!

What about the four MTO's Rafa took against Petschner?

You willing to revise that one and admit you were wrong?

 

[Front242]

Hey Front!

What about the four MTO's Rafa took against Petschner?

You willing to revise that one and admit you were wrong?

Fair enough. It was probably multiple calls of the trainer not MTOs but it was still a complete and utter joke.