Nadal: 2010 vs. 2013

[Kieran]

Buddy, there's a huge difference between an MTO and calling for the trainer, right? Now, why would you see "MTO" instead of "Calling for the trainer" if you weren't biased and unobjective?

As for the use of PRP in 2010, I wish you'd actually read the bloody links you post, and particularly the WADA one, which shows what's banned - and what's not banned.

Page 4 of the WADA Prohibited List 2010:

6. Platelet-derived preparations (e.g. Platelet Rich Plasma, “blood spinning”) administered by intramuscular route. Other routes of administration require a declaration of Use in accordance with the International Standard for Therapeutic Use Exemptions

There are key words being used here, which you're obviously unfamiliar with. Dr Sanchez - who administered this to Rafa - did so in accordance with the exemptions, as he explains here, in reply to a blogger.

Now, I know you're convinced he's bogey - but that's cos you hate him. But I also recall you saying last year that Monfils was serving a silent ban after Wimbledon, but then you laid the blame on a dodgy website you frequent. You're a bit toxic with your speculations, but you're lazy in your research too.

Read the WADA prohibitions before you start blacking the name of a great champ... :nono

 

[Front242]

Buddy, there's a huge difference between an MTO and calling for the trainer, right? Now, why would you see "MTO" instead of "Calling for the trainer" if you weren't biased and unobjective?

As for the use of PRP in 2010, I wish you'd actually read the bloody links you post, and particularly the WADA one, which shows what's banned - and what's not banned.

Page 4 of the WADA Prohibited List 2010:

6. Platelet-derived preparations (e.g. Platelet Rich Plasma, “blood spinning”) administered by intramuscular route. Other routes of administration require a declaration of Use in accordance with the International Standard for Therapeutic Use Exemptions

There are key words being used here, which you're obviously unfamiliar with. Dr Sanchez - who administered this to Rafa - did so in accordance with the exemptions, as he explains here, in reply to a blogger.

Now, I know you're convinced he's bogey - but that's cos you hate him. But I also recall you saying last year that Monfils was serving a silent ban after Wimbledon, but then you laid the blame on a dodgy website you frequent. You're a bit toxic with your speculations, but you're lazy in your research too.

Read the WADA prohibitions before you start blacking the name of a great champ... :nono

I've read all those links actually and notice how Dr. Sanchez refuses to answer many of the questions asked. Believe what you want to believe at the end of the day. I'm done here. David Ferrer has denied working with Luis Garcia Del Moral too but he's hardly gonna say he has dinner with his family every weekend either.

 

[Kieran]

I'm done here.

Good.

 

[brokenshoelace]

No, the article doesn't say he used it after Wimbledon in 2010.

It's funny how your language in a post above regarding the Roddick match is similar to a hatchet job article I found, which shows I didn't get the joke earlier about The Curious Case of Rafa Nadal. I don't frequent these places, you see. That article could almost have been written by yourself, it has so much anti-Rafa bile spilling out of it. I think it's from this article you got your post-Wimbledon PRP stuff from.

The Petzschner match even gets milked dry, kinda like you on this thread. :laydownlaughing

But anyway, it's typical that you go from making up stuff about the Petzschner match (again) to drugs, and most likely next you'll be saying he served a silent ban, and then you'll misquote his autobiography (again). You're obsessed with the chap, but not in a good way...

I didn't make up anything about the Petzschner match. He called the trainer 4 times, I said 4 MTOs whoa, sue me! Same bloody thing. One MTO then and 3 more calls of the trainer, big deal. It was still laughable when you watch how he moved perfectly before and after all match long. And again, you accuse me wrongly of making stuff up when again, it's YOU who are wrong! He himself is quoted as saying “PRP worked unbelievable on my knee before, in 2010, 2009". Read the article below! Now seeing as it was banned on Jan 1st 2010, when do you think he used it? After that date maybe? Give me a break.

http://tennis.si.com/2013/10/08/rafael-nadal-knee-injury-recovery/

It's absolutely not the same. A MTO interrupts play. Calling for the trainer during changeovers without a medical timeout (if it indeed happened) does nothing of the sort.

 

[Front242]

^ Fair enough, either way the MTO he took was dubious as hell in that match but I'm done with this thread anyway, just replying to that.

 

[Ricardo]

Willing to admit it's completely unsportsmanlike to go for a toilet break before your opponent serves for a match?

It's better than soiling the floor.

Willing to admit it was unsporting of Federer to brag about a toilet break he took against Davydenko until the sun went down?

Fact is, none of this has anything to do with sportsmanship, it's to do with Fedal, as most things do...

Sure I can admit that about the Davydenko match but yourself and Moxie and other Nadal fans are fighting a losing battle if you want to go down the route of comparing acts of sportmanship between Nadal and Federer. Remember, the players vote for the most sporting player and there's a reason Nadal got voted only once. Note how many players he p1$$e$ off by taking too long between points, picking his ass, etc, towelling off, making them wait before the match starts, even before the coin toss. He hasn't even the decency the do oncourt interviews in a timely fashion either making everyone wait. The list is endless.

i think carrying on argument with Kieran goes nowhere, the chap spends all day doing a smearing campion. We know how Federer behaves on court, that he's been impeccable for years and that toilet break was really the only case Kieran can ever grab on. Fact is, Federer said he 'needed to go' and the toilet break helped him as the sun came down a little when he came back - what a silly but honest thing to say, because idiots would jump on that and claim Federer is the kind of guy who gains unfair advantage and thus is bad sportsmanship......

Was this even close to being a Fedal war as Kieran claimed? you know how low the chap sinks, he will never be able to put in a valid argument based on proper context. He thinks by dragging down Federer will somehow lift Nadal, and as you can see he's the one doing 'Fedal' ploy.

Lets put this into context, Nadal has in fact been the one making his opponents wait all the time, before a warm up, before match and games, takes way over time between points on a consistent basis, received on court coaching from Tony (filmed on camera years ago), took break before opponent served for match....etc etc. Those are the facts, and when someone point that out and call it 'unsportmanship', you know he'll come back pointing out that Fed is also that because of the davydenko match; he really is desperate. This is the kind of guy you are dealing with, with that kind of integrity and honesty.....

But you don't want to hit him too hard, he'll just run and cry to the mod..... that's the sort of chap he is.

 

[Moxie]

^ What exactly is wrong with getting medical attention after losing a match? How does this compare to questionable (at best) MTO's when the other player has momentum during a match?

We're not talking about getting medical attention after losing a match. Front misspoke. Fed took a MTO after the FOURTH set v. Safin. Roger had a MP in the 4th, which Marat saved, then went on to win the set, and take it to the decider. At which point, Roger took a MTO for his back. So, yes, good question: what about a MTO when the other player has momentum in the match?

It seems unfair to be outraged by one, and yet withhold it for another.

Front misspoke? I quoted your typo lol. You initially said 5th set not me. For the record though watch any of Fed's matches where he took MTOs (there are very few) and you'll see his back was clearly not allowing him proper movement when serving. Now compare that to a guy with no apparent differences before and after people looking at his supposedly injured knee where he continues to run like a gazelle just as before. It's chalk v cheese. Again, there's a reason the other players didn't vote him for the Stefan Edberg sportmanship award more than once and that year was probably them just feeling sorry for him.

Sorry that it was my typo, not yours. I see you've abdicated this thread, but it's worth noting a few things, lest anyone still be reading this and buy into your narrative, which is skewed by bias. Read your above and see how you "interpret" what players think and feel, in their minds and bodies. Federer clearly hampered, so not a dodgy MTO. Whereas with Nadal, if he continues to play well, your assessment is that it was a fake-out, even though Nadal is the one that has injury issues, and Federer almost never so. Rafa admits he plays with pain, and probably has a high threshold of tolerance for it. You can't pretend to know what is going on with them. The same as it's kind of cheesy to say that, in a year you repeatedly cite for unsportsman-like behavior in Nadal, he was voted as the Sportsman of the Year by the players, so you imagine they must have "felt sorry for him." You're making loads of assumptions, and leaps of faith that support your narrative. (Rather like that blog you like to read.) I would suggest that you also select where you place your outrage. You didn't even address Iona's mention that Djokovic took a MTO when Murray was serving for his first Slam title.

I'm not saying Roger's back didn't need work on his back after he lost the 4th set to Safin in that SF, or that Djokovic wasn't cramping at 2-5 in the 5th at the USO in 2012. But if those ones don't inspire a little outrage in your sense of fair play, I don't know why one v. Petzchner in a 3rd round at Wimbledon, at 1-2 in the 4th set needs to be revisited so often. :dodgy:

Willing to admit it's completely unsportsmanlike to go for a toilet break before your opponent serves for a match?

It's better than soiling the floor.

Willing to admit it was unsporting of Federer to brag about a toilet break he took against Davydenko until the sun went down?

Fact is, none of this has anything to do with sportsmanship, it's to do with Fedal, as most things do...

Sure I can admit that about the Davydenko match but yourself and Moxie and other Nadal fans are fighting a losing battle if you want to go down the route of comparing acts of sportmanship between Nadal and Federer. Remember, the players vote for the most sporting player and there's a reason Nadal got voted only once. Note how many players he p1$$e$ off by taking too long between points, picking his ass, etc, towelling off, making them wait before the match starts, even before the coin toss. He hasn't even the decency the do oncourt interviews in a timely fashion either making everyone wait. The list is endless.

It's not about comparing the two of them. It's seeing, as I said above, that you are rather transparently selective in where you get your bile up. There are examples, as has been pointed out, of the top guys making "convenient" use of the rules. So you're mostly left with complaining about Nadal's slowness and tardiness, which is rather a feature of him, as you point out. He's not just slow to the net, he's late to his press conferences. Could just be "island-time." The bigger question is why such an expensive watchmaker sponsors a guy who can't keep time. :laydownlaughing

 

[Front242]

As I said, the players vote for most sporting player and it's no coincidence they voted Nadal only once, ironically in 2010 of all years!

 

[Front242]

LOL about the watchmaker part I must say. Cheers for injecting humour back here

 

[Moxie]

As I said, the players vote for most sporting player and it's no coincidence they voted Nadal only once, ironically in 2010 of all years!

Perhaps only ironic to you. They did vote that way.

 

[Front242]

Well you can bet Philip Petzschner sure as hell didn't!

 

[Moxie]

LOL about the watchmaker part I must say. Cheers for injecting humour back here

Well, we are going to box around these things, and then we do have to have a laugh. But I do think you have to be cautious about what you put out there. You're trading in drugging allegations and accusing a player of unsportsmanlike behavior, when it has been proven that the former is unsubstantiated, and the latter is fluffed up based on your own bias. We can have a good laugh, but you can't ignore inconsistencies in your argument, either.

 

[Front242]

I actually never mentioned drugs once here. That's the first mention of that here. I only mentioned PRP being used while banned and Kieran started posting links of a supposed reply from his doctor to a blogger but so what 'cos his doctor refused to answer many questions anyway so it was all useless and I read it before years ago anyway and it wasn't worth posting. Being unable to substantiate what I said he could only come up with that and of course instantly it means the only viable link on the whole discussion is supposedly his. Hilarious. Anyway, screw this. Nadal fans can believe whatever they want to read but in just the same way people can post links some fans take objection to and say are nonsense we can easily claim the same about supposedly true articles 'cos frankly who the hell knows what's for real on the internet.

 

[tented]

... frankly who the hell knows what's for real on the internet.

Not several of your claims, including the one that you're done with this thread. That much, I know, is for real on the internet.

 

[Front242]

... frankly who the hell knows what's for real on the internet.

Not several of your claims, including the one that you're done with this thread. That much, I know, is for real on the internet.

Prove it! My point is you won't have any better luck proving it's false than I will proving it's true How about starting with the photos of Sara Errani's neck which has completely changed in the last 2 years.

 

[Moxie]

Nadal had a better overall season in 2013 than 2010, and he pulled off an incredible feat on the North American hard court swing that not even Federer or Djokovic have. His overall level was consistently far more dominant than in 2010.

Old players need more recovery time, right? Then how did Nadal win 2 MS titles in 2 weeks? Was he taking something, or perhaps do you set the age limit for tennis peaking way too low?

What about Ferrer? Did he move better at 25 than 31? You'd have to be smoking something to say that he did.

One has been using PRP treatments since 2009 and the other has worked with the infamous Luis Garcia Del Moral. Draw your own conclusions from that. Of course Ferrer is fitter since working with him. Sara Errani has worked with him too and here's a photo of her neck. It's the size of a linebacker's neck and bigger than most of the mens'. Much bigger. And it wasn't like that 2 years before she started working with Del Moral, nor did she have the same results.

Here's another. And these are not Photoshopped.

http://www.superdeporte.es/tenis/2012/06/14/final-paris-celebra-tierras-valencianas/164486.html?utm_source=rss

Just to be clear, Front, you're not suggesting Rafa has done anything illicit, I'm sure, because he only used prp when it was legal. Just so that nobody misinterprets you and thinks bad of him...

I actually never mentioned drugs once here. That's the first mention of that here. I only mentioned PRP being used while banned and Kieran started posting links of a supposed reply from his doctor to a blogger but so what 'cos his doctor refused to answer many questions anyway so it was all useless and I read it before years ago anyway and it wasn't worth posting. Being unable to substantiate what I said he could only come up with that and of course instantly it means the only viable link on the whole discussion is supposedly his. Hilarious. Anyway, screw this. Nadal fans can believe whatever they want to read but in just the same way people can post links some fans take objection to and say are nonsense we can easily claim the same about supposedly true articles 'cos frankly who the hell knows what's for real on the internet.

It seems clear that you were making allegations against Errani. And you are conversant with a certain Doctor Del Moral and make implications based on what you think you know about him. It's rather coy to pretend that you didn't bring up doping. Then, who did? Look at your response to Cali above.

 

[tented]

... frankly who the hell knows what's for real on the internet.

Not several of your claims, including the one that you're done with this thread. That much, I know, is for real on the internet.

Prove it! My point is you won't have any better luck proving it's false than I will proving it's true How about starting with the photos of Sara Errani's neck which has completely changed in the last 2 years.

I wrote "several of your claims" not "all of your claims", to be clear. For example, Rafa taking 4 MTOs, when he didn't. Equating MTOs with calling for the trainer during changeovers: two totally different procedures. Claiming he took a MTO during the Haase match. Misrepresenting Rafa's knee treatments, etc.

So, yeah, several of your claims haven't belonged to the "what's for real on the internet" category, including the one that you're done with this thread (which may be at least one page back at this point).

 

[Front242]

Nadal had a better overall season in 2013 than 2010, and he pulled off an incredible feat on the North American hard court swing that not even Federer or Djokovic have. His overall level was consistently far more dominant than in 2010.

Old players need more recovery time, right? Then how did Nadal win 2 MS titles in 2 weeks? Was he taking something, or perhaps do you set the age limit for tennis peaking way too low?

What about Ferrer? Did he move better at 25 than 31? You'd have to be smoking something to say that he did.

One has been using PRP treatments since 2009 and the other has worked with the infamous Luis Garcia Del Moral. Draw your own conclusions from that. Of course Ferrer is fitter since working with him. Sara Errani has worked with him too and here's a photo of her neck. It's the size of a linebacker's neck and bigger than most of the mens'. Much bigger. And it wasn't like that 2 years before she started working with Del Moral, nor did she have the same results.

Here's another. And these are not Photoshopped.

http://www.superdeporte.es/tenis/2012/06/14/final-paris-celebra-tierras-valencianas/164486.html?utm_source=rss

Just to be clear, Front, you're not suggesting Rafa has done anything illicit, I'm sure, because he only used prp when it was legal. Just so that nobody misinterprets you and thinks bad of him...

I actually never mentioned drugs once here. That's the first mention of that here. I only mentioned PRP being used while banned and Kieran started posting links of a supposed reply from his doctor to a blogger but so what 'cos his doctor refused to answer many questions anyway so it was all useless and I read it before years ago anyway and it wasn't worth posting. Being unable to substantiate what I said he could only come up with that and of course instantly it means the only viable link on the whole discussion is supposedly his. Hilarious. Anyway, screw this. Nadal fans can believe whatever they want to read but in just the same way people can post links some fans take objection to and say are nonsense we can easily claim the same about supposedly true articles 'cos frankly who the hell knows what's for real on the internet.

It seems clear that you were making allegations against Errani. And you are conversant with a certain Doctor Del Moral and make implications based on what you think you know about him. It's rather coy to pretend that you didn't bring up doping. Then, who did? Look at your response to Cali above.

Ah finally, you took the bait. Well what can you possibly do to defend those photos in all honesty? Plus you can check out this link in all it's lovely glory. http://www.superdeporte.es/tenis/2012/06/14/final-paris-celebra-tierras-valencianas/164486.html?utm_source=rss

Again as I said no one can prove this is true but equally so you can't prove it's false till someone is convicted but her neck is the size of a pro bodybuilder's with veins popping everywhere and people who know about these things and have seen many people in real life on stuff know how you get vascularity like that and clearly that's not a normal female neck and only in the last 2 years on tour has it developed like that and just check her results which were nothing before that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Errani

 

[Front242]

You might like this too http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1977030

 

[Moxie]

^ You can't make conclusions based on specific angles of a photograph and a moment when an athlete is in full blood-flow. You should know better. Here is a photo of Errani from 2008:

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Sara+Errani/Pilot+Pen+Tennis+Day+2/96fni92iNn0

She doesn't have the neck of a swan, and she does have defined muscles. How long are you claiming that she was working with a dirty doctor? Because she really didn't break through until 2012.