When will Nadal win another tourney ?

[Front242]

Buddy, only fools make claims they can't back up. You should quit that stuff, seriously.

As for Montreal, I'll probably not see much before the final either, time differences and all. I never make distinctions between Canada or Cinci, they're both good warm up events, but Canada is what we have. It's one of my favourite periods in the tennis calendar...

I just did back it up. The whole Juventus team were on EPO. The pope warns against doping because his country is full of known dopers. The rest is just denial by you but there's no point going round in circles. You probably thought Lance was a saint too. Anyway, yeah good time for tennis.

 

[Kieran]

Anyway, yeah good time for tennis.

Good man, this is actually true...

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Get real yourself, brother. Typically taking a single quote without the full context of what he was saying, and drawing a prejudicial conclusion from it. :cover

The article has been linked, and I also quoted what Tignor was really saying: it was an important and significant moment in Rafa's season, so the celebration was appropriate. Just cos you don't like the bloke doesn't mean you have to project this into everything you write about him... :Nono

This is unbelievable. I did not take a single quote out of context.

Here is the whole first paragraph with the quoted sentence in bold

"It took him until August, but Rafael Nadal finally won a clay-court title in Europe in 2015. (AP)
Rafael Nadal won an ATP 500 event in Hamburg on Sunday, but he celebrated like it was a Grand Slam. After restraining himself through the handshake with the man he had just beaten, Fabio Fognini, Nadal dropped his racquet, skipped to the center of the court, fell to his knees, threw his head back, and held his arms high over his head triumphantly"

The whole paragraph is talking about celebration. When that is the case, how can you say the sentence has been taken out of context? This is the opening paragraph of an article. The very reason to write a whole paragraph about celebration and moreover to make it the opening paragraph is because Tignor strongly felt it was overreaction.

You may or may not agree it was overreaction. But, you cannot disagree that Tignor says it is overreaction. It is really ridiculous that you folks are trying to hide the elephant in the room. :cover:snicker

 

[Kieran]

Get real yourself, brother. Typically taking a single quote without the full context of what he was saying, and drawing a prejudicial conclusion from it. :cover

The article has been linked, and I also quoted what Tignor was really saying: it was an important and significant moment in Rafa's season, so the celebration was appropriate. Just cos you don't like the bloke doesn't mean you have to project this into everything you write about him... :Nono

This is unbelievable. I did not take a single quote out of context.

Here is the whole first paragraph with the quoted sentence in bold

"It took him until August, but Rafael Nadal finally won a clay-court title in Europe in 2015. (AP)
Rafael Nadal won an ATP 500 event in Hamburg on Sunday, but he celebrated like it was a Grand Slam. After restraining himself through the handshake with the man he had just beaten, Fabio Fognini, Nadal dropped his racquet, skipped to the center of the court, fell to his knees, threw his head back, and held his arms high over his head triumphantly"

The whole paragraph is talking about celebration. When that is the case, how can you say the sentence has been taken out of context? This is the opening paragraph of an article. The very reason to write a whole paragraph about celebration and moreover to make it the opening paragraph is because Tignor strongly felt it was overreaction.

You may or may not agree it was overreaction. But, you cannot disagree that Tignor says it is overreaction. It is really ridiculous that you folks are trying to hide the elephant in the room. :cover:snicker

Brother, Tignor went on, after this:

Rafa, by all appearances, wanted this win badly, and it wasn’t hard to understand why. He had already lost to the less-than-legendary Fognini twice this season. He needs ranking points if he’s going to reach the all-important Top 8 before the US Open. It was his most significant tournament win since the 2014 French Open. And after a couple of down moments at the French Open and Wimbledon, Rafa needed an up.

“This title helps [me] to be a bit more calm,” Nadal said. As every Rafa-watcher knows, “being with calm” is the key to the man’s success, if not his very existence.

“I lost the last two times against [Fognini], so I knew it was going to be a tough one,” Nadal said. “I had some tough moments on the court, but every time I came back and I kept fighting with the right mentality...It’s an important victory for me.”

Will you ever stop trying to turn everything Rafa does into a negative, just so's you can slag him off.Tignor doesn't say that Rafa overreacted, because he also says that it's easy to understand why this was an important victory. Giving reasons why. Giving context. It wouldn't matter if it was a 250 event and he acted like he won a slam, if the victory itself was so important...

 

[brokenshoelace]

I'll just have you guys know you're arguing over a freaking celebration.

 

[Kieran]

I'll just have you guys know you're arguing over a freaking celebration.

Are we all overreacting? :snicker

 

[GameSetAndMath]

So, Tignor is saying Rafa overreacted in the celebration, but he understands why he did so as Rafa was desperate.

But, your claim was that Tignor did not say that Rafa overreacted, which is totally false.

 

[brokenshoelace]

^ Pretty sure if I scanned that and showed it to your judge he'd laugh his hole off at you defending Nadal for not overreacting :laydownlaughing

OK I've gotta stop you right there. I'll only bite when it comes to this post because it hits close to home.

A judge would not rule this an overreaction because there is no agreed upon "reaction" in this case to be able to define what an over-reaction is. Is there an unwritten rule as to how to celebrate ATP 500 tournaments? No. In fact, celebrations are by definition, something emanating from emotions and are therefore subjective. If Nadal is happy, and showed it, that's fine. Now, if he tore off his shirt, shorts, and sprayed champagne over the crowd that might be ruled an overreaction, but in this case, it absolutely wouldn't.

 

[Kieran]

So, Tignor is saying Rafa overreacted in the celebration, but he understands why he did so as Rafa was desperate.

But, your claim was that Tignor did not say that Rafa overreacted, which is totally false.

No, he says Rafa's reaction was understandable, and if people think it's an overreaction, he gives context as to how important a win it was.

Why is it so important for you to always be negative about Rafa? He wins a tourney and you're gloating against him still? He gets injured and you make up Trojan horse threads to whack him with. He gets under your skin, right?

 

[Fiero425]

So, Tignor is saying Rafa overreacted in the celebration, but he understands why he did so as Rafa was desperate.

But, your claim was that Tignor did not say that Rafa overreacted, which is totally false.

No, he says Rafa's reaction was understandable, and if people think it's an overreaction, he gives context as to how important a win it was.

Why is it so important for you to always be negative about Rafa? He wins a tourney and you're gloating against him still? He gets injured and you make up Trojan horse threads to whack him with. He gets under your skin, right?

Yeah; BIG TIME here! :snicker :laydownlaughing :dodgy: :ras:

 

[Kirijax]

I usually classify a celebration as an over-reaction if I become embarrassed watching it. Venus' court side jig in '05, several of Djokovic's shirt-rips, some of Ferrer's at 250 tournaments come to mind. I'm sure Nadal wanted this win badly but that was definitely cringe-worthy for me.

Why are we talking about this again? :snicker

 

[GameSetAndMath]

So, Tignor is saying Rafa overreacted in the celebration, but he understands why he did so as Rafa was desperate.

But, your claim was that Tignor did not say that Rafa overreacted, which is totally false.

No, he says Rafa's reaction was understandable, and if people think it's an overreaction, he gives context as to how important a win it was.

Why is it so important for you to always be negative about Rafa? He wins a tourney and you're gloating against him still? He gets injured and you make up Trojan horse threads to whack him with. He gets under your skin, right?

More than Rafa celebrating, I have a serious problem with you flat out denying that Tignor implied Rafa over-reacted, when it is so plain to see in his writing. Here you are trying to get away by refusing to see the elephant in the room.

It is Tignor who chooses how to write his article. If he wanted, he could have totally skipped saying anything about the celebration part and could have just talked about the match and future prospects for Rafa. Instead, he choose to talk about celebration, write a whole paragraph about it and make it the opening paragraph. It is general journalistic principle to put the most important thing in the opening paragraph.

If I say "You are failing to see a simple thing here, but I understand as fandom has blinded your eyes", I am not negating my statement that "You are failing to see a simple thing here". Similarly, when Tignor says "Rafa won a 500 but celebrated like a GS, but I understand as he is very desperate", he is not negating his assertion that Rafa overreacted. He simply says, he is not puzzled and has an understanding of why Rafa overreacted.

I don't understand why you make such a big deal of straightforward sentences.

 

[kskate2]

Why are we talking about this again? :snicker

Apparently, some folk need a life. :lolz:

 

[Kirijax]

Why are we talking about this again? :snicker

Apparently, some folk need a life. :lolz:

 

[Fiero425]

Why are we talking about this again? :snicker

Apparently, some folk need a life. :lolz:

Including the one's taking offence! :ras: :angel: :dodgy: :blush:

 

[Carol]

My goodness, still talking about Rafa's celebration? I don't get it but hope that his next win and many more he will celebrate it even more and me too :snicker :ras:

 

[Dhilip kumar]

It feels painful to see Nadal working hard to come back to form. Its not that he is in a bad form. I think he lost his fitness for the way he played over years. Think how much his body would have taken the strain for his style of playing which is full of power. Personally i had a feeling when he was at his peak that he wont play for a long time. One difference between his close rival federer is that Roger plays with the opponent with variations and skills whereas Nadal plays with the ball on court with full of power and dismantles the oppont. I think he he has done enough even though his age is less. So there is no justice in expecting Nadal to run on the court like before after these many injuries.

Don't feel painful, Nadal is ok and more healthy than ever but remember, tennis is a sport that they can't stop to play, not even when they are in vacations, otherwise they lose the fitness very easy and it's tough to recovery it, he got it but not yet his confidence which is even more important than anything else . He has been many times out of the court because his knee which has bothered him for years but not because the same "song" (his style to play) but because he broke his foot many years ego (he was 16) and the doctor told him that he probably couldn't play anymore......and after that he always has to play with a special insole in his shoe and the feet have totally connection with the knees
And about Fed, he should pray and thanks to all the tennis gods for his good luck not having any injury.
He is doing so much effort like anyone else but his frame of the body has helped him more than anything else and not because his variations but he has had something more advantageous than Nadal, his serve which is his best shot.
Look what Nadal says:
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/08/09/rafael-nadal-looking-to-end-slide-at-rogers-cup

Ya everyone can see he's working hard. but i meant about his style of playing which involves much strain. He has done great job over the years and it didnt surprise me to see him struggling to play like before because of too much injuries. because of his tireless running and his hardwork to smash the tennis ball with awesome power he was able to conquer the french open over a very long period. and i doubt whether he would be able to reach that fitness level at age nearing 30. And the form Djokovic is, it looks Nadal shld come up with a lot of stuff more than he had at his peak. Lets hope he does..

 

[Kieran]

So, Tignor is saying Rafa overreacted in the celebration, but he understands why he did so as Rafa was desperate.

But, your claim was that Tignor did not say that Rafa overreacted, which is totally false.

No, he says Rafa's reaction was understandable, and if people think it's an overreaction, he gives context as to how important a win it was.

Why is it so important for you to always be negative about Rafa? He wins a tourney and you're gloating against him still? He gets injured and you make up Trojan horse threads to whack him with. He gets under your skin, right?

More than Rafa celebrating, I have a serious problem with you flat out denying that Tignor implied Rafa over-reacted, when it is so plain to see in his writing. Here you are trying to get away by refusing to see the elephant in the room.

It is Tignor who chooses how to write his article. If he wanted, he could have totally skipped saying anything about the celebration part and could have just talked about the match and future prospects for Rafa. Instead, he choose to talk about celebration, write a whole paragraph about it and make it the opening paragraph. It is general journalistic principle to put the most important thing in the opening paragraph.

If I say "You are failing to see a simple thing here, but I understand as fandom has blinded your eyes", I am not negating my statement that "You are failing to see a simple thing here". Similarly, when Tignor says "Rafa won a 500 but celebrated like a GS, but I understand as he is very desperate", he is not negating his assertion that Rafa overreacted. He simply says, he is not puzzled and has an understanding of why Rafa overreacted.

I don't understand why you make such a big deal of straightforward sentences.

I have a problem with you pretending it's about that.

Tignor says (paraphrasing, in case you don't understand), "if you think Rafa is overreacting, you don't understand how important this win is." And then he tells us how important it is. The elephant in the room is your persistently clumsy attempts to slag off Rafa. You should learn how to scan a document before posting.

And my questions were rhetorical ones. I know why you hate Rafa. And it's no problem to me that you do. You conform to a type, like we all do...

 

[Kieran]

It feels painful to see Nadal working hard to come back to form. Its not that he is in a bad form. I think he lost his fitness for the way he played over years. Think how much his body would have taken the strain for his style of playing which is full of power. Personally i had a feeling when he was at his peak that he wont play for a long time. One difference between his close rival federer is that Roger plays with the opponent with variations and skills whereas Nadal plays with the ball on court with full of power and dismantles the oppont. I think he he has done enough even though his age is less. So there is no justice in expecting Nadal to run on the court like before after these many injuries.

Don't feel painful, Nadal is ok and more healthy than ever but remember, tennis is a sport that they can't stop to play, not even when they are in vacations, otherwise they lose the fitness very easy and it's tough to recovery it, he got it but not yet his confidence which is even more important than anything else . He has been many times out of the court because his knee which has bothered him for years but not because the same "song" (his style to play) but because he broke his foot many years ego (he was 16) and the doctor told him that he probably couldn't play anymore......and after that he always has to play with a special insole in his shoe and the feet have totally connection with the knees
And about Fed, he should pray and thanks to all the tennis gods for his good luck not having any injury.
He is doing so much effort like anyone else but his frame of the body has helped him more than anything else and not because his variations but he has had something more advantageous than Nadal, his serve which is his best shot.
Look what Nadal says:
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/08/09/rafael-nadal-looking-to-end-slide-at-rogers-cup

Ya everyone can see he's working hard. but i meant about his style of playing which involves much strain. He has done great job over the years and it didnt surprise me to see him struggling to play like before because of too much injuries. because of his tireless running and his hardwork to smash the tennis ball with awesome power he was able to conquer the french open over a very long period. and i doubt whether he would be able to reach that fitness level at age nearing 30. And the form Djokovic is, it looks Nadal shld come up with a lot of stuff more than he had at his peak. Lets hope he does..

Good post, Dhilip. The old battery is wearing down and the body is suffering wear and tear, which is natural to all great high achieving players. Sampras was suffering similar burn out. With Rafa, it's compounded by his inability to remain "calm", an anxiety to end points quickly. He doesn't just miss simple forehands, he overhits them so much, we could be watching the WTA. But we live in hope that he can pull himself together again. Fast hard courts might help him. We hope!

 

[mrzz]

The case for overreaction:

Nadal has beaten Fognini. Who doesn't?

The case for underreaction:

Nadal avoided three straight losses against Fognini. I heard he would be stripped of at least three RG trophies if that would happen (I would take five).