When will Nadal beat Djokovic again?

[the AntiPusher]

With the biological passport these days, I seriously doubt that it's anything else. :angel:

Funny how Nadal's performance has dropped since it was introduced.

I see that Front's suggestions have resonated with you too.

Front is not in this conversation; you guys went 'there' all by yourselves.

No.. He doesn't have to be.. you were the one who made the reference to Captain America not . the you guys.. as for Front.. its been his signature campaign against Rafa, we all know that is his primary stance. this isn't a debate but I didn't recall you saying these things about Rafa years ago so that's why I stated that maybe you have changed your thoughts maybe influence by his campaign

 

[nehmeth]

I see that Front's suggestions have resonated with you too.

Front is not in this conversation; you guys went 'there' all by yourselves.

No.. He doesn't have to be.. you were the one who made the reference to Captain America not . the you guys.. as for Front.. its been his signature campaign against Rafa, we all know that is his primary stance. this isn't a debate but I didn't recall you saying these things about Rafa years ago so that's why I stated that maybe you have changed your thoughts maybe influence by his campaign

Somebody mentioned Captain America's formula a few days ago... and it made me smile. Sorry to have gone there. And no, Front is not to blame for any of the opinions I may or may not have.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Front is not in this conversation; you guys went 'there' all by yourselves.

No.. He doesn't have to be.. you were the one who made the reference to Captain America not . the you guys.. as for Front.. its been his signature campaign against Rafa, we all know that is his primary stance. this isn't a debate but I didn't recall you saying these things about Rafa years ago so that's why I stated that maybe you have changed your thoughts maybe influence by his campaign

Somebody mentioned Captain America's formula a few days ago... and it made me smile. Sorry to have gone there. And no, Front is not to blame for any of the opinions I may or may not have.

Okay. I didn't see that previous reference to Captain America..

 

[Fiero425]

Ralf turns 30 in 2016. He will need to find the Captain America formula for him to do what he did in 13.

Thank you! It's like people aren't watching Rafa struggle from day one of an event! He's spraying the ball all over the place and if it wasn't for the gutless play of other pros in the lower echelons, he wouldn't even be in the top 10! He's done IMO! :nono :angel: :dodgy:

So you saying Rafa is done for good, Fed is gonna stay at #2 or whatever, but no real threat to Novak? Is that your opinion?

Rafa might have a spurt of past greatness; maybe at the FO, but overall his play is pretty bad! His shots are short, his serve unreliable, and like most people already know, "his confidence" has to be shaken! Tennis is all about confidence! All players have talent, but if you can't execute in the crunch, that talent is useless; look at Dimitrov! Like his mentor Fed, he has all the shots, but he can't finish when it really counts! :nono :angel: :dodgy: :cover

 

[nehmeth]

When I referenced your third set of conditions AP, my point is - the only way Rafa is going to beat Djoker again is a significant uptick in his levels along with a precipitous drop from the level Novak is playing now.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Thank you! It's like people aren't watching Rafa struggle from day one of an event! He's spraying the ball all over the place and if it wasn't for the gutless play of other pros in the lower echelons, he wouldn't even be in the top 10! He's done IMO! :nono :angel: :dodgy:

So you saying Rafa is done for good, Fed is gonna stay at #2 or whatever, but no real threat to Novak? Is that your opinion?

Rafa might have a spurt of past greatness; maybe at the FO, but overall his play is pretty bad! His shots are short, his serve unreliable, and like most people already know, "his confidence" has to be shaken! Tennis is all about confidence! All players have talent, but if you can't execute in the crunch, that talent is useless; look at Dimitrov! Like his mentor Fed, he has all the shots, but he can't finish when it really counts! :nono :angel: :dodgy: :cover

Agreed. its all about confidence.. That's why I reference 2010 and 2013.. coming back from his injuries or etc. Rafa was able to retool his game and get back to the top. He needs new strategies and tactics to counter Djoker's adjustments that he has made to the tour and especially to Rafa's style of play. With this new plan, victories which builds his confidence.

 

[the AntiPusher]

When I referenced your third set of conditions AP, my point is - the only way Rafa is going to beat Djoker again is a significant uptick in his levels along with a precipitous drop from the level Novak is playing now.

You speak as if the only way to beat Djoker if he doesn't play at a high level which is not the truth. Stan proved this several times previously at AO and RG.( I not gonna mention the numerous times Roger and Rafa have done this to Djoker but you guys will not acknowledge it these days).

If Rafa takes the fight from the beginning return of service to Djoker instead of just blocking or pushing the ball back in play, he can play more aggressively which will produce winners and possibly ufes from Djoker. Djoker's level doesn't have to drop significantly but he has to be forced to play from positions on the court where he is uncomfortable.

 

[Kieran]

Or a gluten-free pack of hard-boiled eggs should do it.

30 is old, but he should be okay for at least another year, if he manages his health okay...

YEah, that's all Rafa needs is the Djoker's diet formula"(gluten-free pack of hard-boiled eggs and his room temp "water", Yep.. that's what turned his body into the Super Solider he is now.

With the biological passport these days, I seriously doubt that it's anything else. :angel:

Funny how Nadal's performance has dropped since it was introduced.

Actually, his performance has dropped since he was out after Wimbo last year with a wrist injury, then had an operation on his appendix. I thought you heard about this. It's kinda normal.

Otherwise, the caretaker at the top who's benefitting most from his drop in performance might actually have some opposition...

 

[Front242]

There aren't many places on the court where Novak "Dhalsim" Djokovic feels uncomfortable. With his bendy limbs he'd make a great Streetfighter character. You can push him miles off the court and he'll still reach it a lot of the time! Monfils is similar that way but injures himself constantly going for impossible shots.

 

[Kieran]

When I referenced your third set of conditions AP, my point is - the only way Rafa is going to beat Djoker again is a significant uptick in his levels along with a precipitous drop from the level Novak is playing now.

You speak as if the only way to beat Djoker if he doesn't play at a high level which is not the truth. Stan proved this several times previously at AO and RG.( I not gonna mention the numerous times Roger and Rafa have done this to Djoker but you guys will not acknowledge it these days).

If Rafa takes the fight from the beginning return of service to Djoker instead of just blocking or pushing the ball back in play, he can play more aggressively which will produce winners and possibly ufes from Djoker. Djoker's level doesn't have to drop significantly but he has to be forced to play from positions on the court where he is uncomfortable.

Novak's level doesn't have to drop at all, when Nadal is at his best. It gets forced down...

 

[Riotbeard]

When I referenced your third set of conditions AP, my point is - the only way Rafa is going to beat Djoker again is a significant uptick in his levels along with a precipitous drop from the level Novak is playing now.

You speak as if the only way to beat Djoker if he doesn't play at a high level which is not the truth. Stan proved this several times previously at AO and RG.( I not gonna mention the numerous times Roger and Rafa have done this to Djoker but you guys will not acknowledge it these days).

If Rafa takes the fight from the beginning return of service to Djoker instead of just blocking or pushing the ball back in play, he can play more aggressively which will produce winners and possibly ufes from Djoker. Djoker's level doesn't have to drop significantly but he has to be forced to play from positions on the court where he is uncomfortable.

Novak's level doesn't have to drop at all, when Nadal is at his best. It gets forced down...

I think they can all do this to each other at their best! Sometimes even Murray...

 

[Front242]

That applies to every player in the top 100 to be honest.

 

[nehmeth]

When I referenced your third set of conditions AP, my point is - the only way Rafa is going to beat Djoker again is a significant uptick in his levels along with a precipitous drop from the level Novak is playing now.

You speak as if the only way to beat Djoker if he doesn't play at a high level which is not the truth. Stan proved this several times previously at AO and RG.( I not gonna mention the numerous times Roger and Rafa have done this to Djoker).

If Rafa takes the fight from the beginning return of service to Djoker instead of just blocking or pushing the ball back in play, he can play more aggressively which will produce winners and possibly ufes from Djoker. Djoker's level doesn't have to drop significantly but he has to be forced to play from positions on the court where he is uncomfortable.

You have Novak who is in his prime and Fedals who are on the other side of that. Yes, back in the day, they could often beat him, with great alacrity. That's not the case now. Novak is a stronger player than he was in even 2011, with less weaknesses, stronger net play, better serve and greater depth of shot. Nadal is unable to force him to play out of position. Djoker's serve doesn't allow Rafa to press with the return the way he could before.

Roger can still press him on the faster hard courts. Wawrinka definitely redlined at the French. I have not seen that level of play from your boy in quite some time. :nono

 

[the AntiPusher]

When I referenced your third set of conditions AP, my point is - the only way Rafa is going to beat Djoker again is a significant uptick in his levels along with a precipitous drop from the level Novak is playing now.

You speak as if the only way to beat Djoker if he doesn't play at a high level which is not the truth. Stan proved this several times previously at AO and RG.( I not gonna mention the numerous times Roger and Rafa have done this to Djoker).

If Rafa takes the fight from the beginning return of service to Djoker instead of just blocking or pushing the ball back in play, he can play more aggressively which will produce winners and possibly ufes from Djoker. Djoker's level doesn't have to drop significantly but he has to be forced to play from positions on the court where he is uncomfortable.

You have Novak who is in his prime and Fedals who are on the other side of that. Yes, back in the day, they could often beat him, with great alacrity. That's not the case now. Novak is a stronger player than he was in even 2011, with less weaknesses, stronger net play, better serve and greater depth of shot. Nadal is unable to force him to play out of position. Djoker's serve doesn't allow Rafa to press with the return the way he could before.

Roger can still press him on the faster hard courts. Wawrinka definitely redlined at the French. I have not seen that level of play from your boy in quite some time. :nono

That's why Rafa needs to retool his game to defuse what Djoker is doing so well. Rafa's game has to be aggressive and attacking(eg. Fed, Stan and Kei N). It's probably the only antidote to defeat Djoker. Trying to defeat him from the baseline using Rafa's grinding strokes is only gonna produce the same results.

 

[Kieran]

I think Nole in 2011 had to play much better, because he had an all-time great to defuse. He hit eye-bulging levels. Sometimes I looked at his eyes and there were sparks coming out of them. The man was so superhuman in his physical energies, he seemed hypnotised. He hasn't had to go to such extremes this year. The opposition has been more docile, blokes in their rocking chairs, fellas coming outta the hospital ward. Chaps like Murray who took a peek, then legged it from the fray, waving their arms crazily in the direction of their players box.

Trust me, the only reason why Novak looks invincible this year is because he's been allowed to. Now, Rafa isn't back to them 2013 levels where he hounded Nole until he gave up what Rafa wanted, and maybe he won't get there either, but he'll get close to them and that'll be the test that Novak hasn't faced this year...

 

[nehmeth]

I think Nole in 2011 had to play much better, because he had an all-time great to defuse. He hit eye-bulging levels. Sometimes I looked at his eyes and there were sparks coming out of them. The man was so superhuman in his physical energies, he seemed hypnotised. He hasn't had to go to such extremes this year. The opposition has been more docile, blokes in their rocking chairs, fellas coming outta the hospital ward. Chaps like Murray who took a peek, then legged it from the fray, waving their arms crazily in the direction of their players box.

Trust me, the only reason why Novak looks invincible this year is because he's been allowed to. Now, Rafa isn't back to them 2013 levels where he hounded Nole until he gave up what Rafa wanted, and maybe he won't get there either, but he'll get close to them and that'll be the test that Novak hasn't faced this year...

Novak doesn't look invincible.

And just because he beat your boy so badly doesn't mean he was playing better in 2011. You compare the videos of some of his matches where he put a beatdown on Ralf and the ones he's played this year... again - in 2015, his depth of shot is consistently better, as is the serve and of course the approach and volleys.

 

[Kieran]

I think Nole in 2011 had to play much better, because he had an all-time great to defuse. He hit eye-bulging levels. Sometimes I looked at his eyes and there were sparks coming out of them. The man was so superhuman in his physical energies, he seemed hypnotised. He hasn't had to go to such extremes this year. The opposition has been more docile, blokes in their rocking chairs, fellas coming outta the hospital ward. Chaps like Murray who took a peek, then legged it from the fray, waving their arms crazily in the direction of their players box.

Trust me, the only reason why Novak looks invincible this year is because he's been allowed to. Now, Rafa isn't back to them 2013 levels where he hounded Nole until he gave up what Rafa wanted, and maybe he won't get there either, but he'll get close to them and that'll be the test that Novak hasn't faced this year...

Novak doesn't look invincible.

And just because he beat your boy so badly doesn't mean he was playing better in 2011. You compare the videos of some of his matches where he put a beatdown on Ralf and the ones he's played this year... again - in 2015, his depth of shot is consistently better, as is the serve and of course the approach and volleys.

Yeah, he finally beat the worst version of Rafa imagineable, so for that we throw the dog a bone. He joins a select few, including FFS and somebody else whose name I can't remember. Trust me, brother, he was better in 2011 because he had to be. He's made heavy weather of the Deathless One in two slam finals this year, and the one time he needed to be at 2011 levels, he failed to rise to the occasion against Stan.

It's still a stellar year, one of the best. I've applauded him. He deserves it, he's the best man right now, hands down. One thing our brother Cali once said has resonated with me since, among many: Nadal has a rapacious hunger. It's only now, late in the season, when that looks like it's coming back. The shanks are decreasing and the fist pumps are escalating. If he continues on this trajectory he'll soon stop conceding cheap defeats to everybody, Novak included. And you and I both know, Rafa will continue to rise...

 

[Front242]

Out of interest, what makes you think everyone else can't play better than they currently are too? There are more than 2 guys in the top 100

 

[Front242]

^ Point being, there are many other guys out there beating Nadal right now besides Novak and they surely have more room for improvement than a guy turning 30 next year. Can't imagine things are gonna suddenly go from zero to hero next year and if they do ...well, then hair loss normally follows that!

 

[Kieran]

Out of interest, what makes you think everyone else can't play better than they currently are too? There are more than 2 guys in the top 100

The point being, it won't make any difference what other players do once Nadal gets back near to his best.