When will Nadal beat Djokovic again?

[El Dude]

I don't see how it is possible unless A) Novak starts seriously declining and/or gets injured, and B) Rafa discovers the Fountain of Youth.

B is more likely than A, but neither is likely.

 

[nehmeth]

I don't see how it is possible unless A) Novak starts seriously declining and/or gets injured, and B) Rafa discovers the Fountain of Youth.

B is more likely than A, but neither is likely.

Guaranteed team Nadal is assiduously working on plan B.

 

[Carol]

Rafa just needs to find again his best game and confidence or maybe Novak is the one who could lose "the Fountain of the Youth" which he and his team are working so hard? we'll see

 

[lacatch]

Yes, and I'm praying for a rapid end to world hunger and war.....

 

[herios]

Before thinking of beating Novak, he has to manage to beat the other top 10 players when he faces them.
His record against top 10 is 2-8, beside Djokovic, also Murray, Wawrinka, Raonic, Berdych and Nishikori defeated him. OK, with Tomas he is 1-1 for the season.

 

[Fiero425]

Before thinking of beating Novak, he has to manage to beat the other top 10 players when he faces them.
His record against top 10 is 2-8, beside Djokovic, also Murray, Wawrinka, Raonic, Berdych and Nishikori defeated him. OK, with Tomas he is 1-1 for the season.

Some of those matches lost, Rafa was leading; within a point or 2 of winning! In the case of Raonic, he actually had multiple MP's and gave it back in 3 sets! AMAZING! How do you recover from that? :cover uzzled :nono :angel: :dodgy:

 

[Kieran]

There's a heck of a lot of surety about Rafa's decline being rubber-stamped and permanent. I see a lot of posters here who might go missing for a while, at some point in the recent future...

 

[Kirijax]

There's a heck of a lot of surety about Rafa's decline being rubber-stamped and permanent. I see a lot of posters here who might go missing for a while, at some point in the recent future...

Nadal definitely makes the tennis tour more interesting. There's no doubt about that. I thought Federer was done a couple years ago, but he came back. Not all the way back Slam-wise, but he has made a new chapter in his career. I don't see why Nadal wouldn't be able to do that. He's not going away any time soon. Next year will definitely be interesting in watching Nadal write his own next chapter of his career. I hope his fans hang around for that.

 

[Kieran]

Next year will definitely be interesting. One thing we know about Nadal is that his capacity for work is tremendous and his willpower is of a level unseen before in the sport. His animated and industrious style make the game more exciting, and he divides fans and therefore generates far more comment and interest than anyone else. The game needs him. It's kinda flat and predictable without him. Even his early struggles in a slam might be followed by heroics and fireworks against Federer or Djokovic in the final. He brings a level of drama to the game that's lacking right now, and anyone who loves tennis can see that...

 

[Puppet Master]

Kieran, I completely agree with you, and trust me, I want him back as much as you do if not more, but I just don't see what Nadal can do differently next year to have better results. That display against Djokovic yesterday was one of the most woeful sets of tennis I have seen in my life. At least regarding Rafa. What can he do, hit harder and miss even more? Play even more passively and wait for the error? (Which btw won't even happen). Will he break his knees just to set up easy smashes in the end? I don't even want to mention the serve. Watching Nadal's corpse and an evaporated Federer isn't fun at all... :nono

 

[Kieran]

When the intensity goes, it's impossible to fake it. If Rafa isn't as mentally alert or intense as he used to be, then this trend of struggle will continue. You can't flick it on and off like a switch. It's like an elastic, once you stretch it too far, it loses its tautness. Physically, he's not as dynamic or swift, but he can tailor his game somewhat. But even still, at the top level, a truncated Rafa would be exposed, kinda like Roger playing SABR against the best in a slam final. It works to an extent against the less diligent or talented, but it isn't a policy that can be enforced at the highest levels.

I'm not giving up on Rafa getting some breaks and improving to a level where he can compete and beat the best again, but I think it'll be in isolated spurts, rather than as a season long gimme...

 

[Carol]

There's a heck of a lot of surety about Rafa's decline being rubber-stamped and permanent. I see a lot of posters here who might go missing for a while, at some point in the recent future...

Kieran, they say: "birds of a feather flock together"..... we can't expect that Rafa's antis want to see him playing his best, on the contrary they are enjoying these moments more than anything else.
I hope that not only Rafa but others players play better and to see more competition, I'm sure we'll see that soon and this sport will be a lot more interesting for everybody

 

[nehmeth]

Before thinking of beating Novak, he has to manage to beat the other top 10 players when he faces them.
His record against top 10 is 2-8, beside Djokovic, also Murray, Wawrinka, Raonic, Berdych and Nishikori defeated him. OK, with Tomas he is 1-1 for the season.

This. It's not just his record against Djokovic (lately) that's been deplorable. He's pretty much sucked against the top ten (and is 2-3 against #26).

Unless team Nadal finds a way around his recent "limitations", it will be more of the same next year.

 

[El Dude]

I have two questions, one for hopeful Rafa fans and one for those who think he's done.

For the Rafans, given the last 16 months of sub-par play (going back to 2014 Roland Garros), and the fact that there have been no reported injuries and most people observe decline in his actual physical skills, do you think it at all possible that Rafa returns to his peak form? In other words, what are your reasonable expectations and hopes for him going forward?

For those who think Rafa is done, given his track record of finding a way to rise phoenix-like from the ashes, and given the importance of confidence in sports and how one good high-level tournament could give him the boost he needs, can you completely write Rafa off from at least returning to some semblance of former glory?

 

[DarthFed]

I have two questions, one for hopeful Rafa fans and one for those who think he's done.

For the Rafans, given the last 16 months of sub-par play (going back to 2014 Roland Garros), and the fact that there have been no reported injuries and most people observe decline in his actual physical skills, do you think it at all possible that Rafa returns to his peak form? In other words, what are your reasonable expectations and hopes for him going forward?

For those who think Rafa is done, given his track record of finding a way to rise phoenix-like from the ashes, and given the importance of confidence in sports and how one good high-level tournament could give him the boost he needs, can you completely write Rafa off from at least returning to some semblance of former glory?

I don't think he's done yet. I do think if he does nothing through the end of RG next year it's probably the end but that gives him nearly 6 months at the start of 2016 to find himself. What he's going through now is completely different than any part of his career. 2009 was derailed by injuries but he was just 23 at the time. Anyone who thought he was done then was just kidding themselves.

2012 was a more difficult one to recover from because he was a few years older and you could see by then he had already lost some of his explosiveness. But again he was still just 26. This year is not about injuries at all, just an all around physical decline at age 29 that has seen him become a barely top ten player. It's a much different challenge than he's been up against before.

 

[Fiero425]

Back in '09 & '12, I was just hopeful! I can do without watching, seeing articles, or hearing from Rafa again! I've never cared for his entire act on the court which is why I've been looking forward to these "times" like no other "hatah!" - I'd just assume he hang around longer and get embarrassed like he had to be yesterday in China! More and more players are finding ways to extend him or complete a victory that most still are shocked to see and hear about! I've been saying for years that defensive counter-punching game was going to run him out of the sport before another player, but I'm not sure now! It looks as if he thinks everything can turn and he will be on top again! I guess you have to think that way; why else even compete? I just hope he can at least make it to the later rounds to meet his main rivals Nole and Roger! Maybe they can improve their numbers! ;-)

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I have two questions, one for hopeful Rafa fans and one for those who think he's done.

For the Rafans, given the last 16 months of sub-par play (going back to 2014 Roland Garros), and the fact that there have been no reported injuries and most people observe decline in his actual physical skills, do you think it at all possible that Rafa returns to his peak form? In other words, what are your reasonable expectations and hopes for him going forward?

For those who think Rafa is done, given his track record of finding a way to rise phoenix-like from the ashes, and given the importance of confidence in sports and how one good high-level tournament could give him the boost he needs, can you completely write Rafa off from at least returning to some semblance of former glory?

My answers:

1. a. Even though the improvement is slow in coming, Rafa is definitely gradually improving. He has even cleared Fog and rose up all the way to the finals to get beating from No-vak instead of from a No-body in the early rounds. b. He definitely is a hardworker and has very good work ethics.

2. Surely Rafa's 2016 will be better than 2015 due to at least a "dead BULL bounce". Of course, a couple of back to back clay wins in the clay season might revive Rafa. The clay season of 2016 will
surely be a do or die moment for Rafa.

I am willing to write off Rafa if he does not win a slam in 2016. I am not predicting whether he will win a slam or not in 2016. But, I am predicting that if he does not win a slam in 2016, he is never ever going to win another slam.

 

[Fiero425]

I have two questions, one for hopeful Rafa fans and one for those who think he's done.

For the Rafans, given the last 16 months of sub-par play (going back to 2014 Roland Garros), and the fact that there have been no reported injuries and most people observe decline in his actual physical skills, do you think it at all possible that Rafa returns to his peak form? In other words, what are your reasonable expectations and hopes for him going forward?

For those who think Rafa is done, given his track record of finding a way to rise phoenix-like from the ashes, and given the importance of confidence in sports and how one good high-level tournament could give him the boost he needs, can you completely write Rafa off from at least returning to some semblance of former glory?

My answers:

1. a. Even though the improvement is slow in coming, Rafa is definitely gradually improving. He has even cleared Fog and rose up all the way to the finals to get beating from No-vak instead of from a No-body in the early rounds. b. He definitely is a hardworker and has very good work ethics.

2. Surely Rafa's 2016 will be better than 2015 due to at least a "dead BULL bounce". Of course, a couple of back to back clay wins in the clay season might revive Rafa. The clay season of 2016 will
surely be a do or die moment for Rafa.

I am willing to write off Rafa if he does not win a slam in 2016. I am not predicting whether he will win a slam or not in 2016. But, I am predicting that if he does not win a slam in 2016, he is never ever going to win another slam.

Ya never know; well known how I feel about the tour and their inabilities to finish off top players when leading, winning, with a MP at times! I think most should be embarrassed allowing Nadal to come and go as he pleases, twice getting to #1 after an extended absence! That just shouldn't happen! The women have successful kept passed champions at bay who left and returned like Hingis, Henin, and Seles, but the same can't be said about the ATP!

Down the line in 2017 or 2018, Rafa might surprise us all and take a FO! Roger snuck one more at Wimbledon in 2012! That's Rafa's best bet; not sure he's a real threat in the other majors! He's had trouble even getting out of the early rounds at Wimbledon; how can he win? At least he got to his appointed round and match against Nole before he was so rudely auf'd at the FO! It all remains to be seen how long Rafa's willing to stay on tour without winning a major! He can still make a fantastic living; appearance fees, exhibitions, & endorsements! Will he hang around like Connors, not even getting a sniff of a title after 1985, but having a great run late at a USO at 39 years old? Even getting to Roger's age is debatable IMO! Can Nadal continue to toil in the 2nd tier and luck into another major final against an unseeded underdog? Not likely! :laydownlaughing :cover

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I have two questions, one for hopeful Rafa fans and one for those who think he's done.

For the Rafans, given the last 16 months of sub-par play (going back to 2014 Roland Garros), and the fact that there have been no reported injuries and most people observe decline in his actual physical skills, do you think it at all possible that Rafa returns to his peak form? In other words, what are your reasonable expectations and hopes for him going forward?

For those who think Rafa is done, given his track record of finding a way to rise phoenix-like from the ashes, and given the importance of confidence in sports and how one good high-level tournament could give him the boost he needs, can you completely write Rafa off from at least returning to some semblance of former glory?

My answers:

1. a. Even though the improvement is slow in coming, Rafa is definitely gradually improving. He has even cleared Fog and rose up all the way to the finals to get beating from No-vak instead of from a No-body in the early rounds. b. He definitely is a hardworker and has very good work ethics.

2. Surely Rafa's 2016 will be better than 2015 due to at least a "dead BULL bounce". Of course, a couple of back to back clay wins in the clay season might revive Rafa. The clay season of 2016 will
surely be a do or die moment for Rafa.

I am willing to write off Rafa if he does not win a slam in 2016. I am not predicting whether he will win a slam or not in 2016. But, I am predicting that if he does not win a slam in 2016, he is never ever going to win another slam.

Ya never know; well known how I feel about the tour and their inabilities to finish off top players when leading, winning, with a MP at times! I think most should be embarrassed allowing Nadal to come and go as he pleases, twice getting to #1 after an extended absence! That just shouldn't happen! The women have successful kept passed champions at bay who left and returned like Hingis, Henin, and Seles, but the same can't be said about the ATP!

Down the line in 2017 or 2018, Rafa might surprise us all and take a FO! Roger snuck one more at Wimbledon in 2012! That's Rafa's best bet; not sure he's a real threat in the other majors! He's had trouble even getting out of the early rounds at Wimbledon; how can he win? At least he got to his appointed round and match against Nole before he was so rudely auf'd at the FO! It all remains to be seen how long Rafa's willing to stay on tour without winning a major! He can still make a fantastic living; appearance fees, exhibitions, & endorsements! Will he hang around like Connors, not even getting a sniff of a title after 1985, but having a great run late at a USO at 39 years old? Even getting to Roger's age is debatable IMO! Can Nadal continue to toil in the 2nd tier and luck into another major final against an unseeded underdog? Not likely! :laydownlaughing :cover

That is total BS. Kim Clijsters came back from retirement after giving birth to a child. She did not even have a ranking next to her name when she came back. She played two or three small tourneys and then won the USO immediately. That kind of thing will not happen in ATP.

Roger is trying to constantly innovate to keep him relevant. But, Rafa is trying to "recover" his old form. That kind of "recovering" is not going to work when you are slamless for two years in a row and with the style of play of Rafa.

Finally, even the mighty Roger did not win a slam (at least not yet) after being slamless for two years in a row. Even though he won one in 2012, he had won AO in 2010 and so it is just an year gap.

 

[Kieran]

I have two questions, one for hopeful Rafa fans and one for those who think he's done.

For the Rafans, given the last 16 months of sub-par play (going back to 2014 Roland Garros), and the fact that there have been no reported injuries and most people observe decline in his actual physical skills, do you think it at all possible that Rafa returns to his peak form? In other words, what are your reasonable expectations and hopes for him going forward?

For those who think Rafa is done, given his track record of finding a way to rise phoenix-like from the ashes, and given the importance of confidence in sports and how one good high-level tournament could give him the boost he needs, can you completely write Rafa off from at least returning to some semblance of former glory?

I think I answered this above but actually, I think his mediocre play goes back further than Paris 2014. I would say he's been steadily getting worse since the us open in 2013, with an isolated outbreak of (relative, but not sensational) upswing at Oz in 2014, and Paris 2014...