Rogers Cup 2019, Montreal, Canada, ATP Masters 1000

[shawnbm]

I am happy for the Spanish Bull—something I imagine bugged him about his long and illustrious career. A wonderful achievement.

 

[Moxie]

No you never argued that out or even mentioned that it does not have significance. You merely expressed your annoyance that I reminded it to everyone.

Actually, I did...post #15 on the first page:

https://www.tennisfrontier.com/tenn...eal-canada-atp-masters-1000.6585/#post-394739

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Actually, I did...post #15 on the first page:

https://www.tennisfrontier.com/tenn...eal-canada-atp-masters-1000.6585/#post-394739

I missed that. I saw only your post #10.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

It's still pathetic by Big 3 standards. Only 1 title defense off of clay? And it happened in a week where Djokovic and Federer weren't even playing?

So many tears in your post!

 

[tented]

I admit the WTF is an actual issue for Rafa, though, as you say, the important thing is winning titles and lots of them, which he has done quite well, including some vast majority of the big ones. Funny, I just told you the other day, on this thread that defending titles didn't have much significance. Now you find this the appropriate opportunity to inform me of same. I don't generally go in for vindictiveness, but since you've been the "Queen of Mean" on the non-defense of titles off-clay, vis-a-vis Nadal, I'm here to say you don't get a pass on this one. At least Darth and Front admitted they'd lost a "hating chip" on Nadal. As the one who pushed that specific point harder than anyone else, you would do well to man-up on that one, too, instead of just falling limply back and saying that it never mattered, anyway.

It’s also worth noting that the other two have each only once defended on clay: Novak in Rome and Roger in Hamburg.

 

[Fiero425]

It’s also worth noting that the other two have each only once defended on clay: Novak in Rome and Roger in Hamburg.

Not really! The Tennis world and it's history will forever make NOTE of Rafa being the "Clay GOAT!" I still give more props to Borg playing less than half the years & with wood rackets defending back to back his FO & Wimbledon titles! Do that a few times, then come back to me! Rafa hasn't hit that plateau of God-Like status! He has too many HOLES in his resume; TOO MANY! :whistle:

 

[the AntiPusher]

Not really! The Tennis world and it's history will forever make NOTE of Rafa being the "Clay GOAT!" I still give more props to Borg playing less than half the years & with wood rackets defending back to back his FO & Wimbledon titles! Do that a few times, then come back to me! Rafa hasn't hit that plateau of God-Like status! He has too many HOLES in his resume; TOO MANY! :whistle:

Not fair.. Rafa's resume is very impressive..the losses to Novak at Wimbledon 2018 and the AO 2012 and 2017 losses are what he is going to have to overcome..

 

[Fiero425]

Not fair. Rafa's resume is very impressive..the losses to Novak at Wimbledon 2018 and the AO 2012 and 2017 losses are what he is going to have to overcome..

All's fair in "fandom!" Rafa overall has a lot < those disappointments than Fedovic; Roger the real headcase giving up SF/F w/ Chp. Pt. :whistle:

 

[Moxie]

Not really! The Tennis world and it's history will forever make NOTE of Rafa being the "Clay GOAT!" I still give more props to Borg playing less than half the years & with wood rackets defending back to back his FO & Wimbledon titles! Do that a few times, then come back to me! Rafa hasn't hit that plateau of God-Like status! He has too many HOLES in his resume; TOO MANY! :whistle:

Yes, and Roger is the Grass Goat and Novak very likely the HC Goat, certainly in this era, with Roger a close second, so I don't see how Roger and Novak fans always blame their lack of success on clay on Nadal's clay prowess, but it doesn't work the other way around?

As to Borg, he has 3 Channel Slams, but Rafa has 2. Roger 1 and Novak none. The Channel Slam is one of the hardest doubles in tennis, and Rafa (and Roger) did it before the additional week's break was added. Sure, Borg played with a wooden racquet, but so did everyone else in his era.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

. The Channel Slam is one of the hardest doubles in tennis, before the courts got homogenized, and Rafa (and Roger) did it before the additional week's break was added. Sure, Borg played with a wooden racquet, but so did everyone else in his era.

Fixed it.

 

[Moxie]

Fixed it.

This is when I miss that "rolling my eyes" emoticon. Tell me if you really think that the Channel Slam is significantly easier to accomplish than it was in Borg's day. They are two Majors played on the most disparate surfaces in tennis, even with the changes to grass. The physically more taxing one is played first, and the start of the second used to come two weeks after the beginning of the other. Oh, and btw, I think Laver is the only other one, once in the Open Era.

 

[Ricardo]

I admit the WTF is an actual issue for Rafa, though, as you say, the important thing is winning titles and lots of them, which he has done quite well, including some vast majority of the big ones. Funny, I just told you the other day, on this thread that defending titles didn't have much significance. Now you find this the appropriate opportunity to inform me of same. I don't generally go in for vindictiveness, but since you've been the "Queen of Mean" on the non-defense of titles off-clay, vis-a-vis Nadal, I'm here to say you don't get a pass on this one. At least Darth and Front admitted they'd lost a "hating chip" on Nadal. As the one who pushed that specific point harder than anyone else, you would do well to man-up on that one, too, instead of just falling limply back and saying that it never mattered, anyway.

are you just puny or what? whats the big deal there?

 

[Ricardo]

This is when I miss that "rolling my eyes" emoticon. Tell me if you really think that the Channel Slam is significantly easier to accomplish than it was in Borg's day. They are two Majors played on the most disparate surfaces in tennis, even with the changes to grass. The physically more taxing one is played first, and the start of the second used to come two weeks after the beginning of the other. Oh, and btw, I think Laver is the only other one, once in the Open Era.

it was harder in Borg/Laver's day. "even with changes to grass" means it's not as disparate, as that allows more rallies from the baseline.

 

[Moxie]

it was harder in Borg/Laver's day. "even with changes to grass" means it's not as disparate, as that allows more rallies from the baseline.

"Not as disparate" doesn't mean that they're not significantly disparate, in any case. Sure, the "new grass" (can we still say that?) allows for more rallies from the baseline, but the change in surface is significant enough that they even use different shoes. Grass takes some getting used to, by all accounts. (I've never played on grass.) It's slippery and the bounces are rather unpredictable. My point is that it's a big adjustment, and the one who wins RG (along with the finalist) has the shortest time to make the adjustment. To again take on all of the best ATP players with a full 7 matches to be won again, in such a short span of time, is not for the faint of heart, or those lacking in superb skills and mental toughness.

 

[Moxie]

are you just puny or what? whats the big deal there?

"Puny?" I actually used the word "vindictive." Try to keep up. I was sick of the repetitive use injury that GSM was inflicting on all of us with his constant hammering about "Nadal never defending a title off of clay," then walking it back as unimportant, when it happened. Big deal? No. Satisfying to say? Oh, yes.

 

[Moxie]

Miss Holier Than Thou still gets outraged from time to time when everyone isn't rooting for her innocent, humble boy. It's alright.

Being holier than you isn't a big stretch. I don't demand that everyone root for Nadal, but I'm surely not as bitter a hater as you are. I don't call for Roger to get injured, or to retire soon. I don't call him ugly names. Sure, I watched the Wimbledon men's final...I'm a tennis fan. And you watched the final yesterday, probably same reason. The difference would be the quantity of bile, and I'm pretty sure I'd be at a deficit, compared to yours.

 

[DarthFed]

Being holier than you isn't a big stretch. I don't demand that everyone root for Nadal, but I'm surely not as bitter a hater as you are. I don't call for Roger to get injured, or to retire soon. I don't call him ugly names. Sure, I watched the Wimbledon men's final...I'm a tennis fan. And you watched the final yesterday, probably same reason. The difference would be the quantity of bile, and I'm pretty sure I'd be at a deficit, compared to yours.

I didn't watch that crap. I barely watch the sport anymore when Roger isn't playing and probably will hardly watch when he's gone. And before you go off on me...you know I have my reasons, many of them in fact.

 

[DarthFed]

"Not as disparate" doesn't mean that they're not significantly disparate, in any case. Sure, the "new grass" (can we still say that?) allows for more rallies from the baseline, but the change in surface is significant enough that they even use different shoes. Grass takes some getting used to, by all accounts. (I've never played on grass.) It's slippery and the bounces are rather unpredictable. My point is that it's a big adjustment, and the one who wins RG (along with the finalist) has the shortest time to make the adjustment. To again take on all of the best ATP players with a full 7 matches to be won again, in such a short span of time, is not for the faint of heart, or those lacking in superb skills and mental toughness.

Was slippery, was unpredictable. It's a way easier accomplishment now, there is no reason to sugarcoat it.

 

[Moxie]

Was slippery, was unpredictable. It's a way easier accomplishment now, there is no reason to sugarcoat it.

"Way easier." Meaningless phrase. Even if if were 2 HC Majors that close together, it would be tough. It's not. However much you want to whinge about the change in grass, you have to admit that the two most different surfaces in tennis are clay and grass. Or perhaps you would say clay and indoor HC. In any case, are you unwilling to admit that it's a pretty hard double? Are you really just that entrenched in your commitment to "grass is the new clay?"

 

[Moxie]

I am happy for the Spanish Bull—something I imagine bugged him about his long and illustrious career. A wonderful achievement.

In his interview he said that it didn't mean anything to him. I think it's very possible that we think about these things more than they do. Or, maybe he was playing it down.