Matches you recommend watching in the absence of live tennis

[Bonaca]

"Most" Nadal fans act like he's playing an average opponent when he plays Novak? I don't think so. I'll give you this, though, I don't agree with anyone who says that Novak was top-drawer in either that 2018 SF or the Final last year. Yet he won both. Yes, it does sting for Nadal fans that Djokovic was pickable in 2018, and the decision to keep the roof closed on Day 2 was a serious advantage for Novak, who did need the help. He was still mounting his come-back and wasn't yet top-drawer. No one can say what would have happened if they'd opened the roof on Day 2, but it would have leveled the playing field for Nadal, who was the more in-form player. It just adds to the pain that Wimbledon has decided, after the fact, that leaving the decision to Djokovic was a mistake, which they have since corrected.

Yes Moxie this is far more realistic to me what you wrote. It differs significantly to what other Nadal fans wrote.
Espacially your opinion about the form of both player.
Of course he was beatable in both matches, and I can understand it is hurting.
Where I disagree is that he needed help and that the roof was a huge advantage. You wrote that nobody knows what would have happened with open roof: So how can you say that convincingly it was a huge advantage? Why?
He reached a level of play and mental toughnessto beat them both, despite being not in top form. This is an indication for me what a great grass player he is. And we all know what he did to them in the past with better form and opened roof.

 

[Moxie]

When was his walkabout?? After FO 2016 and Wimbledon 2018 he was losing nearly everything.
never the same player till today. And it’s not only about physical issues.
He clearly wasn’t focused that anymore.
Remember he has two children, and still managing to be no 1 . Not to have a family is what I would call a huge advantage FOR Nadal.

Roger has 4 children. If you think that family is a huge distraction for people with their kind of money, you are delusional. Was that really the problem? Novak hit a motivation wall, and I don't know how you can couch it as anything else.

 

[Bonaca]

Roger has 4 children. If you think that family is a huge distraction for people with their kind of money, you are delusional. Was that really the problem? Novak hit a motivation wall, and I don't know how you can couch it as anything else.

I know , but Roger is no Top dog anymore for quite a while. No factor for no 1 .
Exactly: Motivation wall! To see every day in front of you what really matters in life is surely a factor. If you want to have something to do with the development of your kids, and don’t have the attitude it’s all the womens part.
Everything changes.
Im asking myself right now, why is that necessary to explain???

And I’m not talking about money- nanny bullshit stuff. Children grow that quickly, you can never bring that time back. If you skip that, that’s it. No money can weigh this out.

 

[Moxie]

Yes Moxie this is far more realistic to me what you wrote. It differs significantly to what other Nadal fans wrote.
Espacially your opinion about the form of both player.
Of course he was beatable in both matches, and I can understand it is hurting.
Where I disagree is that he needed help and that the roof was a huge advantage. You wrote that nobody knows what would have happened with open roof: So how can you say that convincingly it was a huge advantage? Why?
He reached a level of play and mental toughnessto beat them both, despite being not in top form. This is an indication for me what a great grass player he is. And we all know what he did to them in the past with better form and opened roof.

You yourself has said that indoor tennis is a big advantage to Novak over Rafa. And outdoor tennis is a big advantage for Rafa over anyone. You yourself said that Novak wasn't at his best at that point in his game in 2018. I'm saying that Rafa might have had the advantage that he needed, given their relative levels, had the match finshed out as an outdoor match. Nothing more.

Novak is not a "great" grass player, per se. He's a great all-surface player, and he's a great player over-all, and can outplay most anyone, no matter the surface. In 2011, I think he beat Rafa at Wimbledon in the head as much as in the game, and in 2018 the roof helped him. Had those matches gone differently, Nadal would have 4 Wimbledon titles, and Novak 3, so don't crow too hard. Plus don't forget that Nadal blew his 2007 chance against Roger. And only Rafa has beaten prime
Fed at Wimbledon. It's a game of inches. Which is how Novak won the last 2 Wimbledons.

 

[Bonaca]

You yourself has said that indoor tennis is a big advantage to Novak over Rafa. And outdoor tennis is a big advantage for Rafa over anyone. You yourself said that Novak wasn't at his best at that point in his game in 2018. I'm saying that Rafa might have had the advantage that he needed, given their relative levels, had the match finshed out as an outdoor match. Nothing more.

Novak is not a "great" grass player, per se. He's a great all-surface player, and he's a great player over-all, and can outplay most anyone, no matter the surface. In 2011, I think he beat Rafa at Wimbledon in the head as much as in the game, and in 2018 the roof helped him. Had those matches gone differently, Nadal would have 4 Wimbledon titles, and Novak 3, so don't crow too hard. Plus don't forget that Nadal blew his 2007 chance against Roger. And only Rafa has beaten prime
Fed at Wimbledon. It's a game of inches. Which is how Novak won the last 2 Wimbledons.

Ok now you put that „huge“ out of your advantage stuff, that’s ok for me.
Nadal has an outdoor advantage over anyone, except Novak, that is what I think.

And I agree it was about inches.

 

[Moxie]

I know , but Roger is no Top dog anymore for quite a while. No factor for no 1 .
Exactly: Motivation wall! To see every day in front of you what really matters in life is surely a factor. If you want to have something to do with the development of your kids, and don’t have the attitude it’s all the womens part.
Everything changes.
Im asking myself right now, why is that necessary to explain???

And I’m not talking about money- nanny bullshit stuff. Children grow that quickly, you can never bring that time back. I you skip that, that’s it. No money can weigh this out.

Roger was #1 with 4 children. This has nothing to do with the motivation wall that Novak hit after getting the Nole-Slam. Which had nothing to do with kids, or injury. Surely he's re-energized after the 2 years in the wilderness, but he's not the same dominant player, either. And the youngsters are catching up to him.

 

[Moxie]

Ok now you put that „huge“ out of your advantage stuff, that’s ok for me.
Nadal has an outdoor advantage over anyone, except Novak, that is what I think.

And I agree it was about inches.

When did I say "huge?" Unless re: RG.

 

[Bonaca]

When did I say "huge?" Unless re: RG.

You wrote „serious“. Not in your last post, that’s ok for me

 

[Bonaca]

Roger was #1 with 4 children. This has nothing to do with the motivation wall that Novak hit after getting the Nole-Slam. Which had nothing to do with kids, or injury. Surely he's re-energized after the 2 years in the wilderness, but he's not the same dominant player, either. And the youngsters are catching up to him.

Roger is Swiss, you can’t compare them.
I said it’s part of motivation problem, not only this. And there were also physical issues.
No he isn’t the same, that’s truth.
neither is Nadal , and that without focus-distractions

 

[Bonaca]

They showed the QF match from AO 20 on Eurosport today between Nadal and Thiem.
Tight one.
But Jesus, Nadal should have beaten this kid.
Did not remember how he lost momentum in the 4th set when chair lady made a mistake and did not give him Hawkeye on a first serve. Unusual for Nadal. He had big opportunities in this 4th set. And let them all slip away.
I was rooting for him.

 

[Moxie]

Roger is Swiss, you can’t compare them.
I said it’s part of motivation problem, not only this. And there were also physical issues.
No he isn’t the same, that’s truth.
neither is Nadal , and that without focus-distractions

I can't believe you think you can get away with saying, "Roger is Swiss," with regards to having children and working. WTF does that even mean? No, they're none of them the same, and not getting any younger. But Novak's 2 years in the wilderness wasn't much about physical issues, and no one believes that. He admitted to motivation issues and "personal issues." Fired his whole team than re-hired them. Then there was the make-up baby. I also can't believe we're having the same argument across two threads, but I can't sleep and I can't listen to one more bit of news about Covid-19.

 

[Bonaca]

I can't believe you think you can get away with saying, "Roger is Swiss," with regards to having children and working. WTF does that even mean? No, they're none of them the same, and not getting any younger. But Novak's 2 years in the wilderness wasn't much about physical issues, and no one believes that. He admitted to motivation issues and "personal issues." Fired his whole team than re-hired them. Then there was the make-up baby. I also can't believe we're having the same argument across two threads, but I can't sleep and I can't listen to one more bit of news about Covid-19.

I am referring to the difference between Germans, Swiss and Austrians and people from South Europe. Different mentality/ emotions Also behavior between family members. For example It’s normal to them to put their parents into old people homes.
Can you believe that German children call their parents by name?? Something unimaginable for me and other south European.
Ask Italians what they think about German mentality, it is foreign to them. Ask them what they think about Corona Bonds , which are mainly blocked by The Northern Countries leaded by Merkel.
I know these things are not 1:1 transferable to these billionaires .
I put my point of view and my principles into my answers. Everything else is suggesting without a frame of own reference.
You can believe about Novak’s walkabout what you want, you do not know anything more than all of us. Just rumours .

 

[calitennis127]

You often don't seem to think that MS1000s matter as barometers for these outcomes, except when they do, I guess. Aren't you the guy who thinks that Nadal beating Novak in Canada in 2013 had no bearing on Nadal beating Novak in the final of the USO that year?

There is a difference between one match and a 4-match winning streak. Are you seriously comparing what Djokovic did to Nadal in early 2011 (beating him in 4 straight finals) to what Nadal did to Djokovic in the summer of 2013 before the US Open (beating him in just one hardcourt match)?

A better comparison would be to the spring of 2014, when Djokovic beat Nadal in Rome (and Miami actually) but yet Nadal still beat him at Roland Garros.

Oh, and right, sure, you had the early bead on Djokovic, who lost to Berdych at Wimbledon. (In straights.)

I sure did. Everyone on this board jumped on me in 2010 for saying that Nadal lucked out by avoiding Djokovic in the final, and then ever since they have seen why I said that. He played poorly against Berdych who was serving huge. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't have done well against Nadal two days later. Totally different match-up.

This was the Djokovic of the Todd Martin era who couldn't buy a first serve, or a 2nd one.

And yet he still made the semis of Wimbledon.

The point is not that Djokovic was perfect during this time. He wasn't. It's just that he was good enough to beat Nadal (admittedly not the highest standard for Wimbledon). Let's not forget that Nadal needed 5 sets to beat both Haase and Petzschner in the second and third rounds. It's not like Djokovic would have been playing Federer in the final. Give me a break indeed.

10 years later, and Nadal has 4 USOs to Novak's 3. What does that tell us?

That Djokovic's defensive approach has not served him well in numerous finals. Djokovic's overall resume at the US Open is actually better than Nadal's: 3 titles, 5 runner-ups, and 3 semis. The fact that he looped up dozens of balls in the middle of the court against Wawrinka, flamed out against Nishikori, and squandered the 2013 title is not something you should be beating your chest about.

Nor is the fact that Medvedev collapsed in the 5th set with Nadal flailing like a duck and holding on for dear life. It's funny how you objected to me saying that Medvedev has a clear mental problem with finishing off matches after that match, only for 2 months later my assessment to be completely confirmed with his 5-1 collapse at World Tour Finals against Nadal. If he couldn't finish off Nadal in that 5th set, something is clearly wrong with his psyche in finishing out matches. And that assessment was 100% validated by the London debacle two months later.

Finally, Djokovic's overall hardcourt resume dwarfs Nadal's. It's not even close. What has happened at the US Open is an outlier. It's largely Djokovic's fault for not making himself more comfortable with offensive tennis in New York. He tries to do the same thing he does in Melbourne but the conditions don't allow for it. To Nadal's credit, he has forged an approach of contraption/gadget tennis that he is comfortable with at the US Open and allows him to be the aggressor against most opponents. He's more comfortable in his approach than Djokovic is (not better, just more comfortable).

 

[Carol]

When was his walkabout?? After FO 2016 and Wimbledon 2018 he was losing nearly everything.
never the same player till today. And it’s not only about physical issues.
He clearly wasn’t focused that anymore.
Remember he has two children, and still managing to be no 1 . Not to have a family is what I would call a huge advantage FOR Nadal.

Yeah....great excuse but I'd say that someone who has given everything, physical and mentally day by day, tournament by tournament can't continue the same way forever and that's exactly what happened to him. In 2011 he hired a doctor who was very famous with his chinese medicine, later he fired all his team and he went through a secta with the other 'famous Pepe', then he changed the coaches like two or three times and then at the end????? he was completely burnt out, too many changes and pressure, meanwhile Nadal and Federer were doing their same routine, not so many changes and so many weird resolutions, they also won RG and right after Wimbledon and they have family too (Federer 4 kids) and not for that reason they weren't focused. Novak is a great player, not doubts about it, he has an incredible elasticity, he reaches any ball it doesn't matter how difficult goes, his physical is better than anyone else but....he is not better player and he never could be able play again like in 2011

 

[Bonaca]

Yeah....great excuse but I'd say that someone who has given everything, physical and mentally day by day, tournament by tournament can't continue the same way forever and that's exactly what happened to him. In 2011 he hired a doctor who was very famous with his chinese medicine, later he fired all his team and he went through a secta with the other 'famous Pepe', then he changed the coaches like two or three times and then at the end????? he was completely burnt out, too many changes and pressure, meanwhile Nadal and Federer were doing their same routine, not so many changes and so many weird resolutions, they also won RG and right after Wimbledon and they have family too (Federer 4 kids) and not for that reason they weren't focused. Novak is a great player, not doubts about it, he has an incredible elasticity, he reaches any ball it doesn't matter how difficult goes, his physical is better than anyone else but....he is not better player and he never could be able play again like in 2011

He is clearly better than Nadal. Nadal by himself said he never faced a player with higher level of play. He said this 2016 not 2011. He lost more matches against Novak than won.
But despite that , Nadal is one of the Goats, but never better than Novak.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I never been a fan of Dimitrov though if anyone has some time up their sleeves cause this match went to 5 sets at the AO in 2017 a s/final match between Rafa and Dimitrov,it was one of Dimitrov's best matches,he had his chances,Rafa proved relentless to the end winning 63 57 76 67 64.

 

[Carol]

He is clearly better than Nadal. Nadal by himself said he never faced a player with higher level of play. He said this 2016 not 2011. He lost more matches against Novak than won.
But despite that , Nadal is one of the Goats, but never better than Novak.

Nadal faced Federer when this one was #1 and playing his higher level which Novak couldn't make it, only when Federer got older, and Nadal faced Novak in 2012-13 when this last one still was playing with his higher level, in HC and clay

 

[the AntiPusher]

Just watched Nadal d. Kyrgios Wimbledon 2019. That was an entertaining match, and full of vinegar.

I don't know why Rafa played so passively vs Roger in the semi's.

 

[Bonaca]

Nadal faced Federer when this one was #1 and playing his higher level which Novak couldn't make it, only when Federer got older, and Nadal faced Novak in 2012-13 when this last one still was playing with his higher level, in HC and clay

You should at least listen to your boy Nadal, he said on record: Novak played the highest level of tennis he ever witnessed. Nadal himself, no coach or journalist. Uncle Toni did realise that too.
If Nadal is better, like you say, he should have beaten Novak more often than losing against him. Novak dominates him for now over 9 years. And I am not only talking about the past like you.

 

[Bonaca]

I don't know why Rafa played so passively vs Roger in the semi's.

I know the secret, Moxie explained it to me once: There are two players on the court. It is not only about Nadal. Can you believe this?
It took some time for me to understand