Matches you recommend watching in the absence of live tennis

[Jelenafan]

Among my fave Nadal HC matches, Nadal versus Federer Dubai 2006 finals, snapped a HC winning streak for Federer

 

[the AntiPusher]

Gotta give you that...you have been saying that they weren't aging-out. I don't remember you championing Djokovic early doors, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Still, in your usual way, you're campaigning for a match that wasn't played. Djokovic lost to Berdych in straights, so it's not a great indicator of his level at the time. He'd also lost to Melzer in QF at RG. You can't really back-date what might have happened without looking at context.


You've completely changed your opinion on Djokovic d. Nadal RG 2015, no matter how much you try to walk that back. I've provided old posts. And you've have recently said that your problem isn't with Nadal, it's with Nadal fans. It is clear even today, by looking at the forums contemporaneously, that that is bullshit.



You keep slogging the resume, but a resume isn't a title. Read your bolded above and try not to blush. That's a champion, for you.

I watched that match live, as I assume you did. There is no doubt it was a big moment. And Nadal avoided the break, through mainly his own effort. Your pretending that this constituted a "collapse" by Medvedev is risible. That made it 1-1 in the 5th. Plenty of time to make up for it. You are forever slogging some notion that there is a pivot moment in a match, and when Nadal (generally, in your reimagining matches,) comes through, there was no way for the opponent to recover from this, psychologically, and if I only understood sports psychology I would know this. I'm sorry, but that's excuse-making. Or, look at it another way: Rafa crushed their spirit, which I think is what you're saying. Well, that's how you win big titles, so bad on them.
I will totally give you that Medvedev blew that match at the YEC. But that means that he could clearly have blown the 5th set of the USO, too. Even you said he has head issues. How was being up an early break going to have "guaranteed" him that USO final? Especially when Rafa has the best break-back record on tour? Medvedev was brave but also lucky not to have been off the court in straights at the USO final. Rafa was tight the whole match.

Very well put Moxie..the 2019 US Open final should have been straight sets just like the prior year vs Anderson..I don't why but Rafa's levels dropped in the 3&4 sets.. Medvedev played better but not at a higher level than the score displayed

 

[Bonaca]

I watching Wimbledon 2013 final : Murray totally dismantle Novak game.. Probably the best match Murray has ever played..So what is the excuse from.Cali why Novak got whipped.

You gave the explanation in your second sentence. He played the best match of his life, the other did not. Was never a fan of Murray but he is also a hell of a talent. I liked his performance against Stanislas 2016 FO where he also played very well.

 

[Moxie]

Very well put Moxie..the 2019 US Open final should have been straight sets just like the prior year vs Anderson..I don't why but Rafa's levels dropped in the 3&4 sets.. Medvedev played better but not at a higher level than the score displayed

Rafa came out of the gate tense. We were all watching together on the live chat. Even Broken asked what he had to be nervous about. I think like Roger just 2 months earlier, he was aware of his opportunity. And, as they get fewer, so more precious. Thinking about the goal and not the game can be the enemy of a champion. Luckily for Rafa, his opponent was less formidable that Roger's. Taking nothing away from Medvedev, as he refused to wilt when he saw and opportunity. Uncharacteristically nervy performance from Rafa, but I think I understand why.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Rafa came out of the gate tense. We were all watching together on the live chat. Even Broken asked what he had to be nervous about. I think like Roger just 2 months earlier, he was aware of his opportunity. And, as they get fewer, so more precious. Thinking about the goal and not the game can be the enemy of a champion. Luckily for Rafa, his opponent was less formidable that Roger's. Taking nothing away from Medvedev, as he refused to wilt when he saw and opportunity. Uncharacteristically nervy performance from Rafa, but I think I understand why.

I too was on that 'live' chat,agree Rafa should have won in 3 sets,he became very tight,even my husband who was watching the match has never seen Rafa soo tight,agree that Denni refused to go away,now I can kind of understand why,at the time I just sat there in disbelief.

 

[calitennis127]

I watching Wimbledon 2013 final : Murray totally dismantle Novak game.. Probably the best match Murray has ever played..So what is the excuse from.Cali why Novak got whipped.

I think Djokovic is the most complete and versatile player of the big 3 (the best overall across all surfaces) but I also would readily acknowledge that he isn't as comfortable being offensive as the other two are. Djokovic has more offensive firepower than Nadal, but Nadal uses what he has to more full effect than Djokovic does. That's why Djokovic lost some big matches to Murray that Nadal did not. It's also why Djokovic lost two finals to Wawrinka.

Even though Djokovic is a much better player on hardcourts overall than Nadal, it is clear that Nadal is more comfortable in his own shoes playing at Flushing Meadows than Djokovic is. Nadal has a plan and he goes with it in New York. Djokovic is more uncertain of himself and he gets bogged down in scratchy/choppy matches where he gets frustrated. The fact is, Djokovic can't win as easily with defense in New York as he can in Melbourne.

As for the Wimbledon match with Murray, again, Djokovic's weakness in big matches is falling into a neutral style of play when his opponent gets hot. Against Nadal it doesn't really matter because Nadal doesn't hit flat and their rallies go on forever. But against other top players Djokovic can get in a lot of trouble by hitting sitters in the middle of the court.

 

[calitennis127]

You've completely changed your opinion on Djokovic d. Nadal RG 2015, no matter how much you try to walk that back. I've provided old posts. And you've have recently said that your problem isn't with Nadal, it's with Nadal fans. It is clear even today, by looking at the forums contemporaneously, that that is bullshit.

No no no no no, I did not. I explained this to BwokenWooWace on the other thread. You are not looking at context. I fully stand by my comments in 2015 and more recently.

In 2015, we were talking about playing level and whether Nadal was at his usual level. At the time, I said that Nadal was not the completely inferior shell of himself that you and others were claiming. I said that the first set was closely contested and that the second set was by no means a dominant blowout in favor of Djokovic. I saw it as similar to how Nadal typically beat Federer on clay: by winning a few key points.

Was I right that Nadal was not a shell of himself and that he was not finished? Yes, obviously I was based on what has happened since.

Now my more recent comment about Nadal being "thrashed" by Djokovic was simply in the context of resume comparison. You claimed that Djokovic never went through Nadal to get a title at Roland Garros - as if Nadal was not playing the event - and I pointed out that Djokovic beat him decisively in 2015 before losing to Wawrinka.

So for you to say that Djokovic needed Nadal out of the tournament to win it was disproved by that match. Djokovic's situation in winning Roland Garros was totally different than Federer's.....Djokovic did not need to avoid Nadal to get the title and he proved that in the 2015 quarterfinal round. Federer has no such match on his Roland Garros resume.....although 2007 and 2011 could have been those matches if he didn't have his head up his own self-destructive ass at key moments.

 

[calitennis127]

Very well put Moxie..the 2019 US Open final should have been straight sets just like the prior year vs Anderson..I don't why but Rafa's levels dropped in the 3&4 sets.. Medvedev played better but not at a higher level than the score displayed

You conveniently are omitting that Medvedev had a break lead in the first set and played terrible to lose the lead. Also, his approach to returning serve the whole match was stupid and until he got in the flow of the match it gave Nadal a bunch of cheap points in the first two sets.

You should also be glad that Berretini blew those two set points in the first set of the semifinal because that match would have been far more complicated if Berretini took the first set like he should have. Nadal got that lucky mis-hit to save the day for him.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I think Djokovic is the most complete and versatile player of the big 3 (the best overall across all surfaces) but I also would readily acknowledge that he isn't as comfortable being offensive as the other two are. Djokovic has more offensive firepower than Nadal, but Nadal uses what he has to more full effect than Djokovic does. That's why Djokovic lost some big matches to Murray that Nadal did not. It's also why Djokovic lost two finals to Wawrinka.

Even though Djokovic is a much better player on hardcourts overall than Nadal, it is clear that Nadal is more comfortable in his own shoes playing at Flushing Meadows than Djokovic is. Nadal has a plan and he goes with it in New York. Djokovic is more uncertain of himself and he gets bogged down in scratchy/choppy matches where he gets frustrated. The fact is, Djokovic can't win as easily with defense in New York as he can in Melbourne.

As for the Wimbledon match with Murray, again, Djokovic's weakness in big matches is falling into a neutral style of play when his opponent gets hot. Against Nadal it doesn't really matter because Nadal doesn't hit flat and their rallies go on forever. But against other top players Djokovic can get in a lot of trouble by hitting sitters in the middle of the court.

That last paragraph of this post I agree

 

[the AntiPusher]

Rafa came out of the gate tense. We were all watching together on the live chat. Even Broken asked what he had to be nervous about. I think like Roger just 2 months earlier, he was aware of his opportunity. And, as they get fewer, so more precious. Thinking about the goal and not the game can be the enemy of a champion. Luckily for Rafa, his opponent was less formidable that Roger's. Taking nothing away from Medvedev, as he refused to wilt when he saw and opportunity. Uncharacteristically nervy performance from Rafa, but I think I understand why.

I think Rafa's nervousness really cost him vs Roger at Wimbledon 2019 although Roger really outplayed him...

 

[tented]

I do love that match, because it was such a great day for Murray. I agree it might have been the best match he ever played. It meant so much to him.

And that final 12-minute game ...

At the time, I remember thinking, “If Andy drops serve, Novak will win in 5.”

 

[tented]

Rafa’s first loss to Federer on clay, Rafa’s first loss in a clay-court final, and most notoriously the match which snapped Rafa’s 81 match winning streak on clay. I’m still not exactly sure what happened here. It’s as if Rafa hit a wall by the third set.

 

[the AntiPusher]

You conveniently are omitting that Medvedev had a break lead in the first set and played terrible to lose the lead. Also, his approach to returning serve the whole match was stupid and until he got in the flow of the match it gave Nadal a bunch of cheap points in the first two sets.

You should also be glad that Berretini blew those two set points in the first set of the semifinal because that match would have been far more complicated if Berretini took the first set like he should have. Nadal got that lucky mis-hit to save the day for him.

rafa was not worried about Berretini...he has really the same game as silent KK..Rafa is getting to old to have these endless rallies with these ball basher but I guess he knows that they will eventually commit an UFE.

 

[Bonaca]

Rafa’s first loss to Federer on clay, Rafa’s first loss in a clay-court final, and most notoriously the match which snapped Rafa’s 81 match winning streak on clay. I’m still not exactly sure what happened here. It’s as if Rafa hit a wall by the third set.

Ridiculous what noise he makes on every damn shot. From the very beginning.
Unbelivable.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Rafa’s first loss to Federer on clay, Rafa’s first loss in a clay-court final, and most notoriously the match which snapped Rafa’s 81 match winning streak on clay. I’m still not exactly sure what happened here. It’s as if Rafa hit a wall by the third set.

Indeed Rafa 'hit a wall' big time in the 3rd set.

 

[Jelenafan]

Nadal just survived this against the young Zverev 2016 Indian Wells Qtrs, that FH volley miss by Zverev at MP must have given him nightmares

 

[Moxie]

Among my fave Nadal HC matches, Nadal versus Federer Dubai 2006 finals, snapped a HC winning streak for Federer

I had never seen that one before, so thanks for posting. Also, sort of charmingly antique. In the highlights before the match, everyone besides Roger and Rafa in that tournament is retired. Also, no Hawkeye! Roger's earnings were a mere $21million, Rafa's only $4+. Didn't recognize any of the commentators, but it was interesting to hear how the tropes hadn't gotten entrenched yet. One said: "Roger's not afraid of getting passed by Nadal." Also, when they talked about the amount of spin and how the ball dive-bombs unexpectedly at the last minute, they were talking about Federer's shot. They mentioned how there were more Spanish supporters than Swiss ones. (So much for "Roger is always the fan favorite everywhere except Spain." Mohamed Layanhi had so much hair, he looked like most of us do right now, in quarantine. What hasn't changed? The excitement that their matches still generate. Also, MJ Fernadez and Tony Godsick in Roger's box. Didn't know that went all the way back.

 

[Jelenafan]

I had never seen that one before, so thanks for posting. Also, sort of charmingly antique. In the highlights before the match, everyone besides Roger and Rafa in that tournament is retired. Also, no Hawkeye! Roger's earnings were a mere $21million, Rafa's only $4+. Didn't recognize any of the commentators, but it was interesting to hear how the tropes hadn't gotten entrenched yet. One said: "Roger's not afraid of getting passed by Nadal." Also, when they talked about the amount of spin and how the ball dive-bombs unexpectedly at the last minute, they were talking about Federer's shot. They mentioned how there were more Spanish supporters than Swiss ones. (So much for "Roger is always the fan favorite everywhere except Spain." Mohamed Layanhi had so much hair, he looked like most of us do right now, in quarantine. What hasn't changed? The excitement that their matches still generate. Also, MJ Fernadez and Tony Godsick in Roger's box. Didn't know that went all the way back.

This was my wakeup call on Rafa.

Moxie, at the time that match impressed me so much re: Rafa because Dubai was a very fast HC (Miami is slower HC) and after blowing Rafa away in the 1st set, everyone and their brother thought Federer, fresh from winning the AO and unbeaten in 3 tourneys in 2006, was going to walk away with the match.

Matches like these set the "Rafa is in Roger's head" argument from the Fed fans, but it's really Rafa's "never give up" attitude that was so suffocating. This match more than any other made me really start to consider this kid is going to do extremely well on ALL surfaces.

Reality is that professional Tennis is always incestuous, but the way MJ and Godsick have their finger in every pie is annoying to me. I can't handle her "analysis" of Sharapova because it's soo biased per she lines MJ's and her husband's pockets. Not unique or earth shattering, and not the first, but it just is so awkward to me per her commentary on any of the players.

 

[Moxie]

This was my wakeup call on Rafa.

Moxie, at the time that match impressed me so much re: Rafa because Dubai was a very fast HC (Miami is slower HC) and after blowing Rafa away in the 1st set, everyone and their brother thought Federer, fresh from winning the AO and unbeaten in 3 tourneys in 2006, was going to walk away with the match.

Matches like these set the "Rafa is in Roger's head" argument from the Fed fans, but it's really Rafa's "never give up" attitude that was so suffocating. This match more than any other made me really start to consider this kid is going to do extremely well on ALL surfaces.

Reality is that professional Tennis is always incestuous, but the way MJ and Godsick have their finger in every pie is annoying to me. I can't handle her "analysis" of Sharapova because it's soo biased per she lines MJ's and her husband's pockets. Not unique or earth shattering, and not the first, but it just is so awkward to me per her commentary on any of the players.

Roger played an immaculate first set, and it's just the kind of thing that frustrates the Fed fans (+ lone Rafa-hater.) It's also one of those Nadal matches that I have seen only in retrospect, knowing the outcome, and I'm still wondering, watching it, how he won that match. But a) Roger played a level he couldn't sustain, b) Rafa problem-solved some changes (possibly his most under-rated talent,) and c) yes, Rafa's relentlessness. I think (or know?) that Roger wasn't used to that from anyone by 2006, including from Rafa. But I do agree it was a big notch in Rafa getting into Roger's head. Fed has to have walked away wondering how he lost that match.

As to Mary Jo Fernandez, it was another poster here that called my attention to her conflicts of interest as a commentator, some time ago. (He'll know who he is, and feel free to out yourself. Take a bow.) I had no idea who her husband was. Mary Carillo gets a lot of flack around here, and Cali is on a campaign against Annacone, but MJ has long gotten a pass, and I do think that's wrong. You can like some people or not, as commentators, but Mary Jo Fernandez has no business calling tennis, given where her husband makes his money...which is surely bigger money than her docent job on Tennis Channel.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I think Djokovic is the most complete and versatile player of the big 3 (the best overall across all surfaces) b

Djokovic is the most complete baseliner of the 3. Roger is easily the most versatile all around player and it's not particularly close. In today's game, the former counts for more though, no doubt about it.