Matches you recommend watching in the absence of live tennis

[the AntiPusher]

I know the secret, Moxie explained it to me once: There are two players on the court. It is not only about Nadal. Can you believe this?
It took some time for me to understand

Rafa didn't play with the same aggression he did vs Nicky K..

 

[Carol]

I don't know why Rafa played so passively vs Roger in the semi's.

Me either, after the second set (6-1) he started to play different, slower and very erratic....weird

 

[Carol]

You should at least listen to your boy Nadal, he said on record: Novak played the highest level of tennis he ever witnessed. Nadal himself, no coach or journalist. Uncle Toni did realise that too.
If Nadal is better, like you say, he should have beaten Novak more often than losing against him. Novak dominates him for now over 9 years. And I am not only talking about the past like you.

After 2014 how many times Novak has played against Nadal and in what surfaces? and how many months Nadal has been out of the court because his injuries comparing with Novak even after his "supposed" elbow surgery?

 

[the AntiPusher]

Me either, after the second set (6-1) he started to play different, slower and very erratic....weird

Very true. Rafa had control of the 1st set and also the TBR. But dropped five balls short and Roger FH pulverized each one subsequently Rafa got outplayed five straight points.. that's the Rafa that Cali keeps saying is a pusher.

 

[the AntiPusher]

You should at least listen to your boy Nadal, he said on record: Novak played the highest level of tennis he ever witnessed. Nadal himself, no coach or journalist. Uncle Toni did realise that too.
If Nadal is better, like you say, he should have beaten Novak more often than losing against him. Novak dominates him for now over 9 years. And I am not only talking about the past like you.

Bonaca, One thing you fail to realize is Rafa has the ability to add more tweaks and can counters to Roger's and Novak's game. Especially with all this extra time to disect their services patterns. I think team Rafa including Uncle Toni will definitely have a new approach to this final phase of Rafa's career. ( I noticed a few tells by Novak's serves, either down the T on the Deuce and wide to the add court when he is behind in his service game.)

Rafa needs to use his legs more instead of arming his serves because he is getting too many " let calls " ..just an observation and an opinion.

 

[Moxie]

There is a difference between one match and a 4-match winning streak. Are you seriously comparing what Djokovic did to Nadal in early 2011 (beating him in 4 straight finals) to what Nadal did to Djokovic in the summer of 2013 before the US Open (beating him in just one hardcourt match)?

A better comparison would be to the spring of 2014, when Djokovic beat Nadal in Rome (and Miami actually) but yet Nadal still beat him at Roland Garros.

I can accept that, and agreed.

I sure did. Everyone on this board jumped on me in 2010 for saying that Nadal lucked out by avoiding Djokovic in the final, and then ever since they have seen why I said that. He played poorly against Berdych who was serving huge. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't have done well against Nadal two days later. Totally different match-up.

I don't remember that, and your recounting of your past stances on this forum has proven to be less than totally reliable. Anyway, I'm sure that nehmeth would have agreed with you. He was an early fan of Novak. Personally, I don't remember you being an early champion, so we'll have to just leave that out there.

That Djokovic's defensive approach has not served him well in numerous finals. Djokovic's overall resume at the US Open is actually better than Nadal's: 3 titles, 5 runner-ups, and 3 semis. The fact that he looped up dozens of balls in the middle of the court against Wawrinka, flamed out against Nishikori, and squandered the 2013 title is not something you should be beating your chest about.

Nor is the fact that Medvedev collapsed in the 5th set with Nadal flailing like a duck and holding on for dear life. It's funny how you objected to me saying that Medvedev has a clear mental problem with finishing off matches after that match, only for 2 months later my assessment to be completely confirmed with his 5-1 collapse at World Tour Finals against Nadal. If he couldn't finish off Nadal in that 5th set, something is clearly wrong with his psyche in finishing out matches. And that assessment was 100% validated by the London debacle two months later.

Finally, Djokovic's overall hardcourt resume dwarfs Nadal's. It's not even close. What has happened at the US Open is an outlier. It's largely Djokovic's fault for not making himself more comfortable with offensive tennis in New York. He tries to do the same thing he does in Melbourne but the conditions don't allow for it. To Nadal's credit, he has forged an approach of contraption/gadget tennis that he is comfortable with at the US Open and allows him to be the aggressor against most opponents. He's more comfortable in his approach than Djokovic is (not better, just more comfortable).

I'm so sad that @DarthFed has abdicated these forums, because he would so razz you as to the bolded above. Finishing 2nd more often isn't a thing. And I've acknowledged that Djokovic has the overall better resume on HCs. That is without dispute. But he beat him twice at the USO when it mattered. You can keep being mad about why Novak lost to Nishikori and Warwrinka, and you will complain endlessly about the 2013 final, but it doesn't change the outcome. The resume doesn't play the tennis match, the player does.

And Medvedev didn't "collapse" in the 5th set of the final last year, however much you keep trying to workshop that. He missed a chance to break early. It was his only lead in the match. It was at 1-0 in the fifth, FFS. And Nadal has the best break-back record in the game. This was in no way the determinating game of the match. Funny, I don't remember you telling me that Medvedev had problems finishing off matches at that time. I'd like you to dig up a quote. He was on a good run. But when I told you that the YEC match between them provided some proof that Medevdev did not really having the stones to finish Rafa off at the USO, I don't remember you having a lot to say about that.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I can accept that, and agreed.



I don't remember that, and your recounting of your past stances on this forum has proven to be less than totally reliable. Anyway, I'm sure that nehmeth would have agreed with you. He was an early fan of Novak. Personally, I don't remember you being an early champion, so we'll have to just leave that out there.

That Djokovic's defensive approach has not served him well in numerous finals. Djokovic's overall resume at the US Open is actually better than Nadal's: 3 titles, 5 runner-ups, and 3 semis. The fact that he looped up dozens of balls in the middle of the court against Wawrinka, flamed out against Nishikori, and squandered the 2013 title is not something you should be beating your chest about.

Nor is the fact that Medvedev collapsed in the 5th set with Nadal flailing like a duck and holding on for dear life. It's funny how you objected to me saying that Medvedev has a clear mental problem with finishing off matches after that match, only for 2 months later my assessment to be completely confirmed with his 5-1 collapse at World Tour Finals against Nadal. If he couldn't finish off Nadal in that 5th set, something is clearly wrong with his psyche in finishing out matches. And that assessment was 100% validated by the London debacle two months later.

Finally, Djokovic's overall hardcourt resume dwarfs Nadal's. It's not even close. What has happened at the US Open is an outlier. It's largely Djokovic's fault for not making himself more comfortable with offensive tennis in New York. He tries to do the same thing he does in Melbourne but the conditions don't allow for it. To Nadal's credit, he has forged an approach of contraption/gadget tennis that he is comfortable with at the US Open and allows him to be the aggressor against most opponents. He's more comfortable in his approach than Djokovic is (not better, just more comfortable).
[/QUOTE]
I'm so sad that @DarthFed has abdicated these forums, because he would so razz you as to the bolded above. Finishing 2nd more often isn't a thing. And I've acknowledged that Djokovic has the overall better resume on HCs. That is without dispute. But he beat him twice at the USO when it mattered. You can keep being mad about why Novak lost to Nishikori and Warwrinka, and you will complain endlessly about the 2013 final, but it doesn't change the outcome. The resume doesn't play the tennis match, the player does.

And Medvedev didn't "collapse" in the 5th set of the final last year, however much you keep trying to workshop that. He missed a chance to break early. It was his only lead in the match. It was at 1-0 in the fifth, FFS. And Nadal has the best break-back record in the game. This was in no way the determinating game of the match. Funny, I don't remember you telling me that Medvedev had problems finishing off matches at that time. I'd like you to dig up a quote. He was on a good run. But when I told you that the YEC match between them provided some proof that Medevdev did not really having the stones to finish Rafa off at the USO, I don't remember you having a lot to say about that.
[/QUOTE]
Did Cali ever engage in competitive banter with the sith Lord DarthFedius ..I doubt it because Darth had the numerous good statistics Roger had over Novak and David Nabs to support his argument. It's only because Novak's resurgence over Rafa has he found refugee to express his antiNadal bias.

 

[Moxie]

Did Cali ever engage in competitive banter with the sith Lord DarthFedius ..I doubt it because Darth had the numerous good statistics Roger had over Novak and David Nabs to support his argument. It's only because Novak's resurgence over Rafa has he found refugee to express his antiNadal bias.

Funny, but I don't remember them engaging much. They weren't much on the same side except in mutual Rafa-hating.

 

[Bonaca]

Bonaca, One thing you fail to realize is Rafa has the ability to add more tweaks and can counters to Roger's and Novak's game. Especially with all this extra time to disect their services patterns. I think team Rafa including Uncle Toni will definitely have a new approach to this final phase of Rafa's career. ( I noticed a few tells by Novak's serves, either down the T on the Deuce and wide to the add court when he is behind in his service game.)

Rafa needs to use his legs more instead of arming his serves because he is getting too many " let calls " ..just an observation and an opinion.

I hope not but you certainly could be right. Most of their battles were tight ones.
Don’t get me wrong, I mostly answer trolls and Novak haters who give him no credit.
This isn’t including you or moxie.

 

[Bonaca]

After 2014 how many times Novak has played against Nadal and in what surfaces? and how many months Nadal has been out of the court because his injuries comparing with Novak even after his "supposed" elbow surgery?

They played 13 times : 10:3 for Novak! If you include 2014: it’s 12:4 Novak. On every surface they played. What is your point? Haha
How long Nadal had been of court ? I don’t know, I don’t follow that. But when they played, both were healthy!!!!
Novak’s supposed elbow injury? So the surgery was also fake? Come on Miss Carol this is even under your usual level of hate-talk against Djokovic. But not surprising.

 

[Carol]

They played 13 times : 10:3 for Novak! If you include 2014: it’s 12:4 Novak. On every surface they played. What is your point? Haha
How long Nadal had been of court ? I don’t know, I don’t follow that. But when they played, both were healthy!!!!
Novak’s supposed elbow injury? So the surgery was also fake? Come on Miss Carol this is even under your usual level of hate-talk against Djokovic. But not surprising.

First at all remember that Tennis didn't start at 2011 and second I also have to remind you that the year 14-15 were the worst years of Rafas's career. And this beginning of the year Nadal did a very wrong movement playing the Master Cup after the DC and knowing that the AO was so close, otherwise who knows what would have happened. And about Novak's surgery I was surprised that he was able to play in IW one month later. I don’t hate Novak at all, I just don’t trust him

 

[Bonaca]

First at all remember that Tennis didn't start at 2011 and second I also have to remind you that the year 14-15 were the worst years of Rafas's career. And this beginning of the year Nadal did a very wrong movement playing the Master Cup after the DC and knowing that the AO was so close, otherwise who knows what would have happened. And about Novak's surgery I was surprised that he was able to play in IW one month later. I don’t hate Novak at all, I just don’t trust him

I see what you mean. We disagree in many things, mostly because we root for different players and of course the two biggest rivals in today’s tennis! For me to root for Novak has also some kind of patriotic touch, although I am no Serbian. I suppose you like Nadal also because of his origin. That is for me a stronger motivation than anything else.
I wrote you that before, I don’t hate Nadal just dislike his on court behaviour and playing style.

You don’t trust Novak for whatever reasons. Ok.
But you wrote „supposed Injury“. You admitted he had a surgery or do you think he didn’t have? Do you think he had a fake scar on his elbow/forearm? Or do you think he give himself a surgery knowing he did not need one? That would be really ridiculous.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

I think Novak wins his matches because he bores his opponents with his boring mechanical game and his opponents end up falling asleep.

 

[Jelenafan]

IMO the greatest indoor match ever, Sampras versus Boris ATP world Champ finals 1996. A five set scorcher.



Still think Sampras was underrated as far as his movement , and his serving, him and Serena Williams stand alone, just seemed to pull out a huge serve when they needed it most.

 

[Bonaca]

IMO the greatest indoor match ever, Sampras versus Boris ATP world Champ finals 1996. A five set scorcher.



Still think Sampras was underrated as far as his movement , and his serving, him and Serena Williams stand alone, just seemed to pull out a huge serve when they needed it most.

I always rooted against the German, this one was Espacially delicious.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

IMO the greatest indoor match ever, Sampras versus Boris ATP world Champ finals 1996. A five set scorcher.



Still think Sampras was underrated as far as his movement , and his serving, him and Serena Williams stand alone, just seemed to pull out a huge serve when they needed it most.

One topspin forehand from Rafa and they’d be in tears begging for mercy. Please Rafa, help find a vaccine for covid-19 due to your incredible humanitarian efforts and save tennis, cause otherwise we’ll be stuck watching videos of prehistoric Sampras/Becker tennis or Federer playing against a wall.

 

[calitennis127]

I don't remember that, and your recounting of your past stances on this forum has proven to be less than totally reliable. Anyway, I'm sure that nehmeth would have agreed with you. He was an early fan of Novak. Personally, I don't remember you being an early champion, so we'll have to just leave that out there.

At that time there wasn't nearly the same emphasis on discussing Djokovic as there is now. I mostly talked about the Federer-Nadal debates and Nalbandian. But I absolutely did say that Nadal was lucky to avoid Djokovic in the 2010 Wimbledon final and that I thought Djokovic would have won that match. I was then lectured on how Nadal is so much better than Djokovic on grass. Ten years later it turns out I was completely right and everyone I argued with was wrong.

That was also the case with the various age debates in which I said that Federer could easily be Top 5 until 35, that Nadal was not going to bottom out by age 30 because of bad knees, that Nadal was not finished in 2015, that there wasn't enough talent under 25 to unseat the top 3, and that everyone was making too big a deal of the age 30 mark altogether. Everything I said there was validated. Wawrinka even won multiple Slams post-30. Looking back, my assessments really were on point.

When have I ever mischaracterized my past views?

I'm so sad that @DarthFed has abdicated these forums, because he would so razz you as to the bolded above. Finishing 2nd more often isn't a thing.

Well I disagree if the numbers are similar. What separates Djokovic and Nadal at the US Open in terms of titles is just 1. If you look at their full body of work, Djokovic's resume at the US Open is better. That said, Nadal has had a better and more confident approach for closing out the tournament once he has reached the semis/finals at Flushing Meadows than Djokovic has had.

And Medvedev didn't "collapse" in the 5th set of the final last year, however much you keep trying to workshop that. He missed a chance to break early.

Nadal knew the significance of that moment much more than you, which is why he did everything in his power to win that game. All the momentum was on Medvedev's side and the match was getting away from Nadal. To his credit, Nadal knew the significance of that moment and threw everything he had into not getting broken there.

Funny, I don't remember you telling me that Medvedev had problems finishing off matches at that time.

Amazing. I only argued about it for days with multiple Nadal fans.

But when I told you that the YEC match between them provided some proof that Medevdev did not really having the stones to finish Rafa off at the USO, I don't remember you having a lot to say about that.

Those were two entirely different situations. The major difference was the length of those matches. At the start of the 5th set at the US Open, they had been on court for 4 hours and Nadal had had two straight sets snatched from him. In London, Nadal had much more in the tank in the 3rd set to come back from being down since it was only a 3-set match.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I watching Wimbledon 2013 final : Murray totally dismantle Novak game.. Probably the best match Murray has ever played..So what is the excuse from.Cali why Novak got whipped.

 

[Moxie]

At that time there wasn't nearly the same emphasis on discussing Djokovic as there is now. I mostly talked about the Federer-Nadal debates and Nalbandian. But I absolutely did say that Nadal was lucky to avoid Djokovic in the 2010 Wimbledon final and that I thought Djokovic would have won that match. I was then lectured on how Nadal is so much better than Djokovic on grass. Ten years later it turns out I was completely right and everyone I argued with was wrong.

That was also the case with the various age debates in which I said that Federer could easily be Top 5 until 35, that Nadal was not going to bottom out by age 30 because of bad knees, that Nadal was not finished in 2015, that there wasn't enough talent under 25 to unseat the top 3, and that everyone was making too big a deal of the age 30 mark altogether. Everything I said there was validated. Wawrinka even won multiple Slams post-30. Looking back, my assessments really were on point.

Gotta give you that...you have been saying that they weren't aging-out. I don't remember you championing Djokovic early doors, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Still, in your usual way, you're campaigning for a match that wasn't played. Djokovic lost to Berdych in straights, so it's not a great indicator of his level at the time. He'd also lost to Melzer in QF at RG. You can't really back-date what might have happened without looking at context.

When have I ever mischaracterized my past views?

You've completely changed your opinion on Djokovic d. Nadal RG 2015, no matter how much you try to walk that back. I've provided old posts. And you've have recently said that your problem isn't with Nadal, it's with Nadal fans. It is clear even today, by looking at the forums contemporaneously, that that is bullshit.

Well I disagree if the numbers are similar. What separates Djokovic and Nadal at the US Open in terms of titles is just 1. If you look at their full body of work, Djokovic's resume at the US Open is better. That said, Nadal has had a better and more confident approach for closing out the tournament once he has reached the semis/finals at Flushing Meadows than Djokovic has had.

You keep slogging the resume, but a resume isn't a title. Read your bolded above and try not to blush. That's a champion, for you.

Nadal knew the significance of that moment much more than you, which is why he did everything in his power to win that game. All the momentum was on Medvedev's side and the match was getting away from Nadal. To his credit, Nadal knew the significance of that moment and threw everything he had into not getting broken there.

I watched that match live, as I assume you did. There is no doubt it was a big moment. And Nadal avoided the break, through mainly his own effort. Your pretending that this constituted a "collapse" by Medvedev is risible. That made it 1-1 in the 5th. Plenty of time to make up for it. You are forever slogging some notion that there is a pivot moment in a match, and when Nadal (generally, in your reimagining matches,) comes through, there was no way for the opponent to recover from this, psychologically, and if I only understood sports psychology I would know this. I'm sorry, but that's excuse-making. Or, look at it another way: Rafa crushed their spirit, which I think is what you're saying. Well, that's how you win big titles, so bad on them.

Those were two entirely different situations. The major difference was the length of those matches. At the start of the 5th set at the US Open, they had been on court for 4 hours and Nadal had had two straight sets snatched from him. In London, Nadal had much more in the tank in the 3rd set to come back from being down since it was only a 3-set match.

I will totally give you that Medvedev blew that match at the YEC. But that means that he could clearly have blown the 5th set of the USO, too. Even you said he has head issues. How was being up an early break going to have "guaranteed" him that USO final? Especially when Rafa has the best break-back record on tour? Medvedev was brave but also lucky not to have been off the court in straights at the USO final. Rafa was tight the whole match.

 

[Moxie]

I watching Wimbledon 2013 final : Murray totally dismantle Novak game.. Probably the best match Murray has ever played..So what is the excuse from.Cali why Novak got whipped.

I do love that match, because it was such a great day for Murray. I agree it might have been the best match he ever played. It meant so much to him.