Carlos Bernardes Withdrawn for Nadal Matches

Federberg

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^Lol! You're in comedic form AP. Rafa is slower than Novak. In fact Novak has improved a lot in recent years. Rafa stands out amongst top players, it's just a fact. Clearly it's up to the umpires to enforce the rules. And as for Roddick being slow? He wasn't particularly slow mate. That's just in your mind buddy, if anything Roddick was no nonsense and just got on with things.

To be fair to Rafa, I don't recall the guy who umpired the US Open final in 2009 umpiring Roger much since then. Correct me if I'm wrong. What p1$$ed me off about that guy was that Delpo's abuse was so flagrant and for someone who comes across like a former drill seargent he sure was spineless in applying a bit of common sense!
 

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I think Roger's main complaints over the years about Nadal is that he has stalled when receiving points which frankly should never happen. We've all seen Rafa towel off after getting aced or start kicking clay around for no reason before the serve. Roger plays extremely fast on serve so it has been an issue at times over the years. And someone who is the worst offender at something is not going to complain about someone else. Nole has sped up his play a lot over the years too.
 

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^That's quite correct DF. It's bad sportsmanship to disrupt the pace of the server. Everyone knows that you go at the servers rhythm within reason. One of the many things that make it difficult for me to be a Rafa fan :nono
 

the AntiPusher

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Front242 said:
^ 10th bounce? He did 29 before lol!

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I72qi_tAwL4[/video]

Yeah Federberg and Darth, Nole is a lot faster than before:laydownlaughing
 

Federberg

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the AntiPusher said:
Front242 said:
^ 10th bounce? He did 29 before lol!

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I72qi_tAwL4[/video]

Yeah Federberg and Darth, Nole is a lot faster than before:laydownlaughing

Mate...:cover do you have anything current? As in not from 3 years ago? :nono
 

the AntiPusher

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federberg said:
the AntiPusher said:
Front242 said:
^ 10th bounce? He did 29 before lol!

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I72qi_tAwL4[/video]

Yeah Federberg and Darth, Nole is a lot faster than before:laydownlaughing

Mate...:cover do you have anything current? As in not from 3 years ago? :nono

Was this not in 2015
 

Federberg

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the AntiPusher said:
federberg said:
the AntiPusher said:
Yeah Federberg and Darth, Nole is a lot faster than before:laydownlaughing

Mate...:cover do you have anything current? As in not from 3 years ago? :nono

Was this not in 2015

Nope. Just check when it was posted. 2012 :snicker
 

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the AntiPusher said:
federberg said:
the AntiPusher said:
Yeah Federberg and Darth, Nole is a lot faster than before:laydownlaughing

Mate...:cover do you have anything current? As in not from 3 years ago? :nono

Was this not in 2015

Sony was the sponsor through 2014. From this year its Itau, I think that video is from 2012.
 

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^In addition Novak was wearing a blue top in this year's final. I only know because it's on the Miami Masters home page during the trophy celebration :D
 

Denis

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OK, I like to test the Nadalites logic.

Player X is known for swearing on court. In fact, he does it every time before he serves. He will say that the umpire needs to s*ck his cock (credits to Broken Shoelace) out loud before he hits the ball. This goes on for years and years. Suddenly, a cocky ;) umpire decides he will no longer have it, and decides to enforce the rules. In the first set, he gives a warning. But player X insists and keeps telling the umpire to s*ck his cock. At the end of the second set the umpire has the nerve (!) to take away player X first serve.

This is unacceptable to Player X. He tells the umpire that he will make sure that the umpire no longer referees his matches. He uses his influence and so be it the cocky umpire is pulled of Player X's matches. Player X continues to tell umpires to s*ck his cock. This is completely acceptable because other players have violates other tennis rules too.
 

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Nadal asked for Bernardes removal - confirms it at press conference

Less than a week ago, Simon Briggs of the Telegraph reported that Rafael Nadal had asked the ATP to avoid having Carlos Bernardes as a chair umpire for the time being. It was a strong accusation and Briggs had some choice words for the propriety of such a decision. But people always have crazy accusations against the top players.

In short, Bernardes gave Nadal several time violations in the match he umpired in Rio de Jenairo on February 22nd of this year. Time violations and Nadal have always had an uncomfortable history. The Spanish #1 has long been accused of taking far too long in between points. There is rarely a match in which he averages below the 25-second time limit, let along staying under it on every point. Opponents and fans of opponents have complained for years about Nadal’s violations going uncalled. A few umpires over the last year or two have sometimes given Nadal a warning at some point in the match. But no one has taken away a first serve for it. Well, for once, Bernardes decided to actually enforce the rulebook.

Still, this was just conjecture and conspiracy theories. Yes, Bernardes took the strongest stand anyone has so far on Nadal and time violations. And yes, Bernardes hasn’t officiated a Nadal match since then. 2+2=4, right? But it can’t be something as simple as Nadal not wanting an umpire who actually calls the match by the book, right?

After his opening-round match at Roland Garros on Tuesday, a courageous journalist decided to actually ask Nadal about Briggs’ claims. And, shockingly enough, Nadal admitted to it. He said that he did indeed ask the ATP to have Bernardes stay away from his matches for a while. He had praise for Bernardes overall but thought that, after Rio, he should not be on the same court for a little bit.

Of course, it wasn’t as simple as Nadal being upset about time violations called. That would be absurd. Rather, it’s a little weirder.

In short, if you remember a funny scene from then, Nadal came out onto the court with his shorts on backwards. Don’t ask me how that happens. But Nadal asked Bernardes if he could change his shorts on court (surrounded by towel-bearing ballkids, obviously). Bernardes acceded to the request but said that it would, by definition, be a time violation for Nadal. Which is sensible. It takes time to change the shorts and players can’t just fix their equipment like that in the middle of the match when the equipment error is their fault. (If you remember when Nadal’s shoelace broke in the 2014 Australian Open final, he was allowed to change his shoes without penalty because that was entirely out of his control; putting on your shorts backwards before getting on court is very much in the player’s control.) Bernardes got it right.

Now, Nadal was probably upset by Bernardes’ attitude. Bernardes chuckled at the situation a little. We know that umpires are supposed to be stoic. I know I wouldn’t be able to hold in my laughter if a top athlete put his shorts on backwards. That being said, I’m not a professional umpire. Part of Bernardes’ job is to stay professional when crazy things like this happen.

That deals with Nadal and Bernardes. Nadal felt disrespected by the shorts situation and was probably more than a little miffed at the time violations throughout the match. The combination of the two are almost certainly what led to Nadal’s request.

Now, though, what about the ATP granting Nadal’s request to stay away from Bernardes for a while? Everyone knows that Bernardes is one of the best umpires in the game. He sits in the chair at Masters and Grand Slams consistently. He umpires the top players. He is one of the top umpires. He was one of the few who was willing to call time violations against Nadal. And now he won’t be placed at Nadal’s matches.

The only similar situation that immediately comes to mind is Jeff Tarango. Tarango was being heckled by some fans at Wimbledon in 1995 so he told them to “shut up”. Chair umpire Bruno Rebeuh called him for a code violation for an “audible obscenity”. Tarango was so upset by this that he asked for the tournament supervisor to remove Rebeuh from the chair. When he was told that Rebeuh would complete the match, Tarango called Rebeuh “corrupt”, which elicited another code violation for “unsportsmanlike conduct”. Tarango stormed off the court and was banned from Wimbledon the following year. In the ensuing months, Rebeuh was kept away from Tarango’s matches. (In a bit of vindication for Tarango, Rebeuh was actually suspended from umpiring six months later and resigned before the suspension ended; those were the only code violations ever given to Tarango in his professional tour career.)

That is a situation where keeping a chair umpire away from a player makes sense. That’s not just bad blood. It’s bad blood to the point of the inability for either to do their job when the other is on court. This? This is just absurd. The precedent that the ATP is setting by keeping Bernardes and Nadal away from each other is an awful one. Don’t like a call an umpire made? Ask to be kept away from them. Don’t like that they called the time more strict than you like? Ask to be kept away from them.

The ATP likes keeping their top players happy. They know that superstars drive the popularity of the sport. And they know that many die-hard fans will always side with their favorites. But this is the integrity of the sport. The chair umpires keep the sport a competition. You can’t have an objective competition without a judge. And Bernardes is indisputably one of the best. Granting Nadal’s request to stay away hurts that integrity. And it sets a precedent that, if followed, will erode that integrity altogether

Source: http://lastwordonsports.com/2015/05/26/nadal-requested-not-carlos-bernardes-umpire/
by Yesh Ginsburg, Tennis Dept Head - May 26 2015
 

Federberg

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^I guess it's a good thing that umpire is "cocky" given what player X keeps on swearing! :snicker
 

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Moxie629 said:
Front242 said:
Cursing is not the issue here and you know it. That's one of the rare times I've ever seen Roger ever curse and the umpire made an awful call to let Del Potro challenge so late. Rafa on the other hand goes over the time limit and breaks the rules in every match. Quite a glaring difference really. It was AP who attempted to divert the whole topic away from the obvious issue of Rafa's time wasting to Roger cursing in one match. Class.

The issue here is breaking the rules, and cursing is against the rules. There are a fair few examples of Roger cursing, arguing with the umpire, smashing his racquet, or arguing that the Hawkeye is wrong, even though it is considered by all to be the definitive answer in modern technology. Talking about Roger, or anyone else, cursing, or smashing racquets is not a diversion. It is something that Nadal himself has said as a counter to him getting so often penalized for slow play, when he is never guilty of the similar types of code violations. It's not a thing to say that others do bad things, I get that, if they all break the rules, sometimes. Nadal has always played slow, and he does it more than Roger or Novak swears, (though probably not Murray. :cover ) But you can't cry foul on slow play, then talk about model behavior and excuse swearing and racquet/ball abuse, which are far more unsportsmanlike and bad examples for kids.
I hope to hear a few "mea culpas" from the legion of Nadalites who claimed that the article on Rafa's asking to have Bernades removed was untrue! Moxie---On what basis do you say that Swearing and racquet/ball abuse are far more unsportsmanlike than Nadal's chronic slow play? First of all, players are almost automatically docked for ball/racquet abuse---and they rarely if ever protest the call. It is blatant and witnessed by everyone. I think that Nada's slow play---which he uses many times strategically to slow down the pace of play when he is losing/to break the opponent's momentum, is FAR MORE insidious and unsportsmanlike. It also allows him to recover better from his very physical style of play. And we don't even have to reintroduce the issue of the on-court coaching, which Rafa and Uncle Toni have singlehandedly introduced to the ATP tour lol (and which is VERY rarely challenged by the chair and/or the ATP tour).
 

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bajana said:
Source: http://lastwordonsports.com/2015/05/26/nadal-requested-not-carlos-bernardes-umpire/
by Yesh Ginsburg, Tennis Dept Head - May 26 2015

"But no one has taken away a first serve for it. Well, for once, Bernardes decided to actually enforce the rulebook."

That's false. Pascal Maria has taken away Rafa's first serve at least once (the 2013 RG semi), if not more.
 

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bajana said:
Nadal asked for Bernardes removal - confirms it at press conference

Less than a week ago, Simon Briggs of the Telegraph reported that Rafael Nadal had asked the ATP to avoid having Carlos Bernardes as a chair umpire for the time being. It was a strong accusation and Briggs had some choice words for the propriety of such a decision. But people always have crazy accusations against the top players.

In short, Bernardes gave Nadal several time violations in the match he umpired in Rio de Jenairo on February 22nd of this year. Time violations and Nadal have always had an uncomfortable history. The Spanish #1 has long been accused of taking far too long in between points. There is rarely a match in which he averages below the 25-second time limit, let along staying under it on every point. Opponents and fans of opponents have complained for years about Nadal’s violations going uncalled. A few umpires over the last year or two have sometimes given Nadal a warning at some point in the match. But no one has taken away a first serve for it. Well, for once, Bernardes decided to actually enforce the rulebook.

Still, this was just conjecture and conspiracy theories. Yes, Bernardes took the strongest stand anyone has so far on Nadal and time violations. And yes, Bernardes hasn’t officiated a Nadal match since then. 2+2=4, right? But it can’t be something as simple as Nadal not wanting an umpire who actually calls the match by the book, right?

After his opening-round match at Roland Garros on Tuesday, a courageous journalist decided to actually ask Nadal about Briggs’ claims. And, shockingly enough, Nadal admitted to it. He said that he did indeed ask the ATP to have Bernardes stay away from his matches for a while. He had praise for Bernardes overall but thought that, after Rio, he should not be on the same court for a little bit.

Of course, it wasn’t as simple as Nadal being upset about time violations called. That would be absurd. Rather, it’s a little weirder.

In short, if you remember a funny scene from then, Nadal came out onto the court with his shorts on backwards. Don’t ask me how that happens. But Nadal asked Bernardes if he could change his shorts on court (surrounded by towel-bearing ballkids, obviously). Bernardes acceded to the request but said that it would, by definition, be a time violation for Nadal. Which is sensible. It takes time to change the shorts and players can’t just fix their equipment like that in the middle of the match when the equipment error is their fault. (If you remember when Nadal’s shoelace broke in the 2014 Australian Open final, he was allowed to change his shoes without penalty because that was entirely out of his control; putting on your shorts backwards before getting on court is very much in the player’s control.) Bernardes got it right.

Now, Nadal was probably upset by Bernardes’ attitude. Bernardes chuckled at the situation a little. We know that umpires are supposed to be stoic. I know I wouldn’t be able to hold in my laughter if a top athlete put his shorts on backwards. That being said, I’m not a professional umpire. Part of Bernardes’ job is to stay professional when crazy things like this happen.

That deals with Nadal and Bernardes. Nadal felt disrespected by the shorts situation and was probably more than a little miffed at the time violations throughout the match. The combination of the two are almost certainly what led to Nadal’s request.

Now, though, what about the ATP granting Nadal’s request to stay away from Bernardes for a while? Everyone knows that Bernardes is one of the best umpires in the game. He sits in the chair at Masters and Grand Slams consistently. He umpires the top players. He is one of the top umpires. He was one of the few who was willing to call time violations against Nadal. And now he won’t be placed at Nadal’s matches.

The only similar situation that immediately comes to mind is Jeff Tarango. Tarango was being heckled by some fans at Wimbledon in 1995 so he told them to “shut up”. Chair umpire Bruno Rebeuh called him for a code violation for an “audible obscenity”. Tarango was so upset by this that he asked for the tournament supervisor to remove Rebeuh from the chair. When he was told that Rebeuh would complete the match, Tarango called Rebeuh “corrupt”, which elicited another code violation for “unsportsmanlike conduct”. Tarango stormed off the court and was banned from Wimbledon the following year. In the ensuing months, Rebeuh was kept away from Tarango’s matches. (In a bit of vindication for Tarango, Rebeuh was actually suspended from umpiring six months later and resigned before the suspension ended; those were the only code violations ever given to Tarango in his professional tour career.)

That is a situation where keeping a chair umpire away from a player makes sense. That’s not just bad blood. It’s bad blood to the point of the inability for either to do their job when the other is on court. This? This is just absurd. The precedent that the ATP is setting by keeping Bernardes and Nadal away from each other is an awful one. Don’t like a call an umpire made? Ask to be kept away from them. Don’t like that they called the time more strict than you like? Ask to be kept away from them.

The ATP likes keeping their top players happy. They know that superstars drive the popularity of the sport. And they know that many die-hard fans will always side with their favorites. But this is the integrity of the sport. The chair umpires keep the sport a competition. You can’t have an objective competition without a judge. And Bernardes is indisputably one of the best. Granting Nadal’s request to stay away hurts that integrity. And it sets a precedent that, if followed, will erode that integrity altogether

Source: http://lastwordonsports.com/2015/05/26/nadal-requested-not-carlos-bernardes-umpire/
by Yesh Ginsburg, Tennis Dept Head - May 26 2015

Thanks Bajana for posting this. All along Moxie was claiming that Telegraph published an article without any credible sources of information (not to mention that Telegraph is not a tabloid and is a respectable paper). Also, Moxie was speculating that Nadal did not ask for removal of Carlos.

On both counts Moxie is now proven wrong.

As the article that you posted says this removal definitely sets a bad precedent.
 

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federberg said:
the AntiPusher said:
Front242 said:
^ 10th bounce? He did 29 before lol!

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I72qi_tAwL4[/video]

Yeah Federberg and Darth, Nole is a lot faster than before:laydownlaughing

Mate...:cover do you have anything current? As in not from 3 years ago? :nono
Why ask me ..Didn't your good buddy Front originally post that youtube video of Novak exceeding the time limit. Ask him what year this violation occurs
 

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the AntiPusher said:
federberg said:
the AntiPusher said:
Yeah Federberg and Darth, Nole is a lot faster than before:laydownlaughing

Mate...:cover do you have anything current? As in not from 3 years ago? :nono
Why ask me ..Didn't your good buddy Front originally post that youtube video of Novak exceeding the time limit. Ask him what year this violation occurs

Very simple. You posted it in a cheap attempt to obfuscate. We all know what this thread is about. Yet you brought up something that Novak did 3 years ago mate :nono. If you want to make a point about Novak show something he's done lately. As a number of posters have observed he's improved considerably. If he can do it I'm quite certain Rafa can too
 

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Denisovich said:
OK, I like to test the Nadalites logic.

Player X is known for swearing on court. In fact, he does it every time before he serves. He will say that the umpire needs to s*ck his cock (credits to Broken Shoelace) out loud before he hits the ball. This goes on for years and years. Suddenly, a cocky ;) umpire decides he will no longer have it, and decides to enforce the rules. In the first set, he gives a warning. But player X insists and keeps telling the umpire to s*ck his cock. At the end of the second set the umpire has the nerve (!) to take away player X first serve.

This is unacceptable to Player X. He tells the umpire that he will make sure that the umpire no longer referees his matches. He uses his influence and so be it the cocky umpire is pulled of Player X's matches. Player X continues to tell umpires to s*ck his cock. This is completely acceptable because other players have violates other tennis rules too.

Holy $hit. I can write a 25 page essay about logical fallacies using the above post. Asking the umpire for a blowjob and taking time in between points are not the same thing.

This is absolute lunacy. I know you're trying to make a point and didn't mean this literally, but this is some of the silliest crap I've read here in a while.
 

brokenshoelace

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As far as Nadal asking for Carlos' removal...it's a touch on the dramatic side. But, here's how things work in the real world, when you're a one of the most popular sportsmen in the world who happens to be a multi-millionaire all-time great, and you're returning to the tournament you've won 9 times in 10 tries, you tend to have your way with things, and I'd argue you've earned the right to. Welcome to reality, it's a touch less idealistic than a tennis forum.
 

brokenshoelace

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Also, Nadal is the worst offender when it comes to time violations. It's not even close. There's no point in arguing otherwise because it would be factually incorrect.