Carlos Bernardes Withdrawn for Nadal Matches

[britbox]

This! Just have the moral courage to admit he's not a saint. It's like some of these people believe because he's an awesome player than means he's an angel. It is utterly bizarre and says more about them really :nono

It's funny how you guys have created your reality and believed your own BS. Nadal is not close to being a saint, except there are far fewer people arguing he's a saint than there are people calling him human garbage.

This. The big question: Do Federberg and Britbox have the moral courage to point out the posts in which Rafa fans canonized him?

This thread has become ridiculous ...

I will courageously invite anybody to read the first few pages of this thread where certain posters refused to believe Nadal could possibly have black-balled Bernades... it was all a media plot, rag newspaper printing crap, misunderstanding, distraction from Federer's misdemeanours etc.....

 

[brokenshoelace]

You understood that's what I meant and you thought I was somehow implying it was "Roger's fault"? You're right, maybe my ssrcasm is terrible if that's the idea it conveyed. Anyway I'm sorry for bringing up the h2h. We all know it's irrelevant. So irrelevant in fact, we have to be reminded of it's irrelevance twice a week.

Where did I say you implied it was Roger's fault mate? :nono There you go again! Facts not in evidence. What I find humorous is that your guy does something silly, but you can't resist bringing Federer's name into it. I actually found it humorous But you take yourself so seriously. What on earth the h2h has to do with Nadal not being able to put his shorts on correctly escapes me, but obviously that's your sense of humour. All well and good. I salute you sir I found it funny, and replied. No need to get sensitive because I made a joke back. If you sling it, learn to take it

You're right. My joke at Roger's expense was the first off topic post in this 20 page thread.

No digs at Nadal, Djokovic, and other players were made that are totally unrelated to this. None. This has been nothing but 20 pages of pure, relevant gold.

I didn't see your joke in your response. You simply took my post seriously and responded by saying this has nothing to do with Roger.

I was complimenting Roger, actually. His wardrobe is perfect, like his hair, and everything else about him.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Actually, I gotta agree with Britbox. Initially, this thread featured a lot of denial, followed by careful backtracking. There's no escaping that.

That doesn't exactly translate to "Nadal fans think he's a saint" though, especially when the dominant narrative in this thread is that he's a t**t (a word that has actually been used). We have guys whose favorite athlete is Michael Jordan calling Nadal a piece of you know what. Think about that for a second.

This thread is a far bigger character assassination than it is a "Saint Rafa" fest. I, equally as courageously, invite Britbox to read the subsequent 16 pages or so, though I'm sure he's got better things to do and I can't blame him.

This turned from Nadal asking for Carlos to be banned from his matches to "state why you believe Nadal is human scum" including absolutely ludicrous analogies to Deflate-Gate and FIFA corruption, to which, when called out, the responsible parties neglected to comment, probably realizing their own absurdities (how about that for sensationalist journalism on my part?).

And who can forget the infamous "can he do it on his own?" comment. So yeah, it actually led to questioning Nadal's SKILLS. Think about that for another second...

So yeah, sorry, Nadal fans are defensive, but the anti-Nadal camp is offensive (to my intelligence). In fact, Nadal fans being defensive isn't even in my top 5 worst things about this thread, which says a lot about its crappy nature (not its original purpose, but how it unfolded).

 

[Riotbeard]

Actually, I gotta agree with Britbox. Initially, this thread featured a lot of denial, followed by careful backtracking. There's no escaping that.

That doesn't exactly translate to "Nadal fans think he's a saint" though, especially when the dominant narrative in this thread is that he's a t**t (a word that has actually been used). We have guys whose favorite athlete is Michael Jordan calling Nadal a piece of you know what. Think about that for a second.

This thread is a far bigger character assassination than it is a "Saint Rafa" fest. I, equally as courageously, invite Britbox to read the subsequent 16 pages or so, though I'm sure he's got better things to do and I can't blame him.

This turned from Nadal asking for Carlos to be banned from his matches to "state why you believe Nadal is human scum" including absolutely ludicrous analogies to Deflate-Gate and FIFA corruption, to which, when called out, the responsible parties neglected to comment, probably realizing their own absurdities (how about that for sensationalist journalism on my part?).

And who can forget the infamous "can he do it on his own?" comment. So yeah, it actually led to questioning Nadal's SKILLS. Think about that for another second...

So yeah, sorry, Nadal fans are defensive, but the anti-Nadal camp is offensive (to my intelligence). In fact, Nadal fans being defensive isn't even in my top 5 worst things about this thread, which says a lot about its crappy nature (not its original purpose, but how it unfolded).

Interesting interpretation :-/

 

[brokenshoelace]

Actually, I gotta agree with Britbox. Initially, this thread featured a lot of denial, followed by careful backtracking. There's no escaping that.

That doesn't exactly translate to "Nadal fans think he's a saint" though, especially when the dominant narrative in this thread is that he's a t**t (a word that has actually been used). We have guys whose favorite athlete is Michael Jordan calling Nadal a piece of you know what. Think about that for a second.

This thread is a far bigger character assassination than it is a "Saint Rafa" fest. I, equally as courageously, invite Britbox to read the subsequent 16 pages or so, though I'm sure he's got better things to do and I can't blame him.

This turned from Nadal asking for Carlos to be banned from his matches to "state why you believe Nadal is human scum" including absolutely ludicrous analogies to Deflate-Gate and FIFA corruption, to which, when called out, the responsible parties neglected to comment, probably realizing their own absurdities (how about that for sensationalist journalism on my part?).

And who can forget the infamous "can he do it on his own?" comment. So yeah, it actually led to questioning Nadal's SKILLS. Think about that for another second...

So yeah, sorry, Nadal fans are defensive, but the anti-Nadal camp is offensive (to my intelligence). In fact, Nadal fans being defensive isn't even in my top 5 worst things about this thread, which says a lot about its crappy nature (not its original purpose, but how it unfolded).

Interesting interpretation :-/

This is not an interpretation. This is a thread summary. Everything I mentioned is in this thread.

 

[10isfan]

Why does Nadal think rules do not apply to him? He needs to suck it up and play. The obsessive compulsive behavior leading to long delays between points is tiring to his opponents as well as the viewers.

 

[Denis]

Why does Nadal think rules do not apply to him? He needs to suck it up and play. The obsessive compulsive behavior leading to long delays between points is tiring to his opponents as well as the viewers.

Hi 10sfan, you are right, but here is what will happen with your post. The Nadalites will first nitpick at something that is not 100% accurate. For instance, they will say "Nadal doesn't think rules do not apply to him", "Prove that he said that" etc. Then they will bring in some unrelated stuff about your favorite player. Something like Djokovic' mom said something really bad back in 1996. This twin attack is meant to get a mudthrowing contest going, which is inevitably followed by "This thread has become ridiculous! Yes, Nadal was not 100% right, but all the stuff that has been posted here is much worse".

:ras:

 

[Federberg]

Why does Nadal think rules do not apply to him? He needs to suck it up and play. The obsessive compulsive behavior leading to long delays between points is tiring to his opponents as well as the viewers.

Hi 10sfan, you are right, but here is what will happen with your post. The Nadalites will first nitpick at something that is not 100% accurate. For instance, they will say "Nadal doesn't think rules do not apply to him", "Prove that he said that" etc. Then they will bring in some unrelated stuff about your favorite player. Something like Djokovic' mom said something really bad back in 1996. This twin attack is meant to get a mudthrowing contest going, which is inevitably followed by "This thread has become ridiculous! Yes, Nadal was not 100% right, but all the stuff that has been posted here is much worse".

:ras:

:laydownlaughing
I have to say, I laughed out loud when I read this. So true, I'm glad it's obvious to all. Anyway, I think the well is dry on this issue. It's been a heck of a lot of fun!

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Why does Nadal think rules do not apply to him? He needs to suck it up and play. The obsessive compulsive behavior leading to long delays between points is tiring to his opponents as well as the viewers.

Hi 10sfan, you are right, but here is what will happen with your post. The Nadalites will first nitpick at something that is not 100% accurate. For instance, they will say "Nadal doesn't think rules do not apply to him", "Prove that he said that" etc. Then they will bring in some unrelated stuff about your favorite player. Something like Djokovic' mom said something really bad back in 1996. This twin attack is meant to get a mudthrowing contest going, which is inevitably followed by "This thread has become ridiculous! Yes, Nadal was not 100% right, but all the stuff that has been posted here is much worse".

:ras:

Very nice summary of thread. clap:clap

 

[brokenshoelace]

Just a question, can anyone disprove anything I said above in my "thread summary"? Didn't think so. So yeah, let's carry on with the measuring contests with who can make the more smartass posts to bait "likes."

 

[Federberg]

:nono

 

[brokenshoelace]

Why does Nadal think rules do not apply to him? He needs to suck it up and play. The obsessive compulsive behavior leading to long delays between points is tiring to his opponents as well as the viewers.

Apparently he has a point to think the rules don't apply to him because they seem not to. Smart on his part if you ask me. Totally selfish and shady, but smart. Nadal is a cerebral calculated player with a ruthless attitude and a win at all costs mentality. That inevitably leads to crossing the line. If people don't like it, they have every right not to. But to imply that he's oblivious to certain things or that he mistakenly thinks the rules don't apply is ridiculous. It's naive to believe that. He knows exactly what he's doing and he pulled it off.

As far as the Nadal camp here goes, he doesn't care what people think of him so stop trying to portray him as something he's not. You really think Nadal didn't see the backlash coming? You really think he doesn't realize how much he pushes the boundaries and that it irritates his opponents? Nadal is all about establishing his dominance on the court, both mentally, physically and tennis wise. It's time to call him out for what he is. Of course, in other sports that attitude wouldn't need to be sugar coated, and it would in fact be celebrated by many. Of course, this is tennis where fans are elitist hypocrites riding high horses, so he's a piece of garbage.

In reality, it doesn't have to be that way. It's perfectly fine to call him a shy, well mannered, introvert young man off the court, who would do anything to win on the court including being an annoying diva. It's also perfectly fine to dislike him for it.

 

[Riotbeard]

Why does Nadal think rules do not apply to him? He needs to suck it up and play. The obsessive compulsive behavior leading to long delays between points is tiring to his opponents as well as the viewers.

Apparently he has a point to think the rules don't apply to him because they seem not to. Smart on his part if you ask me. Totally selfish and shady, but smart. Nadal is a cerebral calculated player with a ruthless attitude and a win at all costs mentality. That inevitably leads to crossing the line. If people don't like it, they have every right not to. But to imply that he's oblivious to certain things or that he mistakenly thinks the rules don't apply is ridiculous. It's naive to believe that. He knows exactly what he's doing and he pulled it off.

As far as the Nadal camp here goes, he doesn't care what people think of him so stop trying to portray him as something he's not. You really think Nadal didn't see the backlash coming? You really think he doesn't realize how much he pushes the boundaries and that it irritates his opponents? Nadal is all about establishing his dominance on the court, both mentally, physically and tennis wise. It's time to call him out for what he is. Of course, in other sports that attitude wouldn't need to be sugar coated, and it would in fact be celebrated by many. Of course, this is tennis where fans are elitist hypocrites riding high horses, so he's a piece of garbage.

In reality, it doesn't have to be that way. It's perfectly fine to call him a shy, well mannered, introvert young man off the court, who would do anything to win on the court including being an annoying diva. It's also perfectly fine to dislike him for it.

Outside of the elitest fans stuff and maybe some of your phrasing is a bit exaggerated, I agree with this. Maybe not whether it's right etc. You do realize you are the only nadal fan making this argument, right? Everybody else is either ignoring what nadal or talking about time wasting. Your opinion of what it says about rafa may be different, but in general you are more in agreement with everyone else than other nadal fans...

 

[Moxie]

Why does Nadal think rules do not apply to him? He needs to suck it up and play. The obsessive compulsive behavior leading to long delays between points is tiring to his opponents as well as the viewers.

Apparently he has a point to think the rules don't apply to him because they seem not to. Smart on his part if you ask me. Totally selfish and shady, but smart. Nadal is a cerebral calculated player with a ruthless attitude and a win at all costs mentality. That inevitably leads to crossing the line. If people don't like it, they have every right not to. But to imply that he's oblivious to certain things or that he mistakenly thinks the rules don't apply is ridiculous. It's naive to believe that. He knows exactly what he's doing and he pulled it off.

As far as the Nadal camp here goes, he doesn't care what people think of him so stop trying to portray him as something he's not. You really think Nadal didn't see the backlash coming? You really think he doesn't realize how much he pushes the boundaries and that it irritates his opponents? Nadal is all about establishing his dominance on the court, both mentally, physically and tennis wise. It's time to call him out for what he is. Of course, in other sports that attitude wouldn't need to be sugar coated, and it would in fact be celebrated by many. Of course, this is tennis where fans are elitist hypocrites riding high horses, so he's a piece of garbage.

In reality, it doesn't have to be that way. It's perfectly fine to call him a shy, well mannered, introvert young man off the court, who would do anything to win on the court including being an annoying diva. It's also perfectly fine to dislike him for it.

Outside of the elitest fans stuff and maybe some of your phrasing is a bit exaggerated, I agree with this. Maybe not whether it's right etc. You do realize you are the only nadal fan making this argument, right? Everybody else is either ignoring what nadal or talking about time wasting. Your opinion of what it says about rafa may be different, but in general you are more in agreement with everyone else than other nadal fans...

I don't think "everyone else" has made this point, because most of those have come with some degree of moral outrage. On the other hand, I don't know what group point you think Nadal fans are making, or not making. I have said that I don't think we should be required to join in on the "he's a dirtbag" chorus. That choir is big enough. It inclines folks to defend.

In response to the britbox's post which people liked so much, I, for example, merely pointed out that the OP'd article had no quotes or citations, and an inflammatory headline to go with it. I have made such points before. I never called it a rag, though Front accused me of that. I merely said that we should wait for more information before running off making assumptions, which many were happy to do, immediately. And some of those are still wrong, even as the information comes out. I don't think that Nadal fans have been the only ones, by far, marring the otherwise considered and unbiased opinion making on this thread.

 

[Riotbeard]

Apparently he has a point to think the rules don't apply to him because they seem not to. Smart on his part if you ask me. Totally selfish and shady, but smart. Nadal is a cerebral calculated player with a ruthless attitude and a win at all costs mentality. That inevitably leads to crossing the line. If people don't like it, they have every right not to. But to imply that he's oblivious to certain things or that he mistakenly thinks the rules don't apply is ridiculous. It's naive to believe that. He knows exactly what he's doing and he pulled it off.

As far as the Nadal camp here goes, he doesn't care what people think of him so stop trying to portray him as something he's not. You really think Nadal didn't see the backlash coming? You really think he doesn't realize how much he pushes the boundaries and that it irritates his opponents? Nadal is all about establishing his dominance on the court, both mentally, physically and tennis wise. It's time to call him out for what he is. Of course, in other sports that attitude wouldn't need to be sugar coated, and it would in fact be celebrated by many. Of course, this is tennis where fans are elitist hypocrites riding high horses, so he's a piece of garbage.

In reality, it doesn't have to be that way. It's perfectly fine to call him a shy, well mannered, introvert young man off the court, who would do anything to win on the court including being an annoying diva. It's also perfectly fine to dislike him for it.

Outside of the elitest fans stuff and maybe some of your phrasing is a bit exaggerated, I agree with this. Maybe not whether it's right etc. You do realize you are the only nadal fan making this argument, right? Everybody else is either ignoring what nadal or talking about time wasting. Your opinion of what it says about rafa may be different, but in general you are more in agreement with everyone else than other nadal fans...

I don't think "everyone else" has made this point, because most of those have come with some degree of moral outrage. On the other hand, I don't know what group point you think Nadal fans are making, or not making. I have said that I don't think we should be required to join in on the "he's a dirtbag" chorus. That choir is big enough. It inclines folks to defend.

In response to the britbox's post which people liked so much, I, for example, merely pointed out that the OP'd article had no quotes or citations, and an inflammatory headline to go with it. I have made such points before. I never called it a rag, though Front accused me of that. I merely said that we should wait for more information before running off making assumptions, which many were happy to do, immediately. And some of those are still wrong, even as the information comes out. I don't think that Nadal fans have been the only ones, by far, marring the otherwise considered and unbiased opinion making on this thread.

I haven't really heard any other nadal fans say this. Where the non-nadal fans depart from Broken and it makes sense, is that we don't like Nadal generally and maybe this a direct action, that we feel fits with his character, and we already didn't like him. I wouldn't ask anybody to change their fandom. If it were Novak, he would still be my favorite player, but I would say that I did not like his actions. I don't think anybody is asking Rafa fans to change sides

 

[Riotbeard]

Outside of the elitest fans stuff and maybe some of your phrasing is a bit exaggerated, I agree with this. Maybe not whether it's right etc. You do realize you are the only nadal fan making this argument, right? Everybody else is either ignoring what nadal or talking about time wasting. Your opinion of what it says about rafa may be different, but in general you are more in agreement with everyone else than other nadal fans...

I don't think "everyone else" has made this point, because most of those have come with some degree of moral outrage. On the other hand, I don't know what group point you think Nadal fans are making, or not making. I have said that I don't think we should be required to join in on the "he's a dirtbag" chorus. That choir is big enough. It inclines folks to defend.

In response to the britbox's post which people liked so much, I, for example, merely pointed out that the OP'd article had no quotes or citations, and an inflammatory headline to go with it. I have made such points before. I never called it a rag, though Front accused me of that. I merely said that we should wait for more information before running off making assumptions, which many were happy to do, immediately. And some of those are still wrong, even as the information comes out. I don't think that Nadal fans have been the only ones, by far, marring the otherwise considered and unbiased opinion making on this thread.

I haven't really heard any other nadal fans say this. Where the non-nadal fans depart from Broken and it makes sense, is that we don't like Nadal generally and maybe this a direct action, that we feel fits with his character, and we already didn't like him. I wouldn't ask anybody to change their fandom. If it were Novak, he would still be my favorite player, but I would say that I did not like his actions. I don't think anybody is asking Rafa fans to change sides

That's also why I don't think it's character assassination. The people who disliked him already, dislike him more. Nobody is saying he committed genocide...

 

[brokenshoelace]

Why does Nadal think rules do not apply to him? He needs to suck it up and play. The obsessive compulsive behavior leading to long delays between points is tiring to his opponents as well as the viewers.

Apparently he has a point to think the rules don't apply to him because they seem not to. Smart on his part if you ask me. Totally selfish and shady, but smart. Nadal is a cerebral calculated player with a ruthless attitude and a win at all costs mentality. That inevitably leads to crossing the line. If people don't like it, they have every right not to. But to imply that he's oblivious to certain things or that he mistakenly thinks the rules don't apply is ridiculous. It's naive to believe that. He knows exactly what he's doing and he pulled it off.

As far as the Nadal camp here goes, he doesn't care what people think of him so stop trying to portray him as something he's not. You really think Nadal didn't see the backlash coming? You really think he doesn't realize how much he pushes the boundaries and that it irritates his opponents? Nadal is all about establishing his dominance on the court, both mentally, physically and tennis wise. It's time to call him out for what he is. Of course, in other sports that attitude wouldn't need to be sugar coated, and it would in fact be celebrated by many. Of course, this is tennis where fans are elitist hypocrites riding high horses, so he's a piece of garbage.

In reality, it doesn't have to be that way. It's perfectly fine to call him a shy, well mannered, introvert young man off the court, who would do anything to win on the court including being an annoying diva. It's also perfectly fine to dislike him for it.

Outside of the elitest fans stuff and maybe some of your phrasing is a bit exaggerated, I agree with this. Maybe not whether it's right etc. You do realize you are the only nadal fan making this argument, right? Everybody else is either ignoring what nadal or talking about time wasting. Your opinion of what it says about rafa may be different, but in general you are more in agreement with everyone else than other nadal fans...

Not to nit-pick but tennis fans ARE elitists. That's just tennis culture. Look at where it was born, its tradition, etc... That's not always a bad thing. Most of the times it's actually good. But it does lead to ludicrous expectations as far as behavior goes. What is accepted in other sports as "part of the game" is treated as shameful in tennis (keep in mind, accepted in this case doesn't mean you have to agree with it, just that you accept it might happen).

As far as Nadal goes, I never bought into Nadal being a saint and never will. I actually find him more interesting as a ruthless winner. For me personally, it's part of the appeal. Now the way it manifests itself can be tedious to watch (I don't like waiting for ages in between points as a fan), but to me, Nadal is an athlete. That's what he represents to me. He's an athlete I root for and I want him to win. Anything that gives him an advantage is fine by me from a selfish perspective. And no, this does not mean I want him to dope, before anyone brings it up.

There's repeated behavior that negate the "Nadal is a saint" theory. Every isolated incident can probably be justified on its own, but you mix them together, and you establish a pattern. I don't think any of it makes him the terrible guy he's made out to be though.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I don't think "everyone else" has made this point, because most of those have come with some degree of moral outrage. On the other hand, I don't know what group point you think Nadal fans are making, or not making. I have said that I don't think we should be required to join in on the "he's a dirtbag" chorus. That choir is big enough. It inclines folks to defend.

In response to the britbox's post which people liked so much, I, for example, merely pointed out that the OP'd article had no quotes or citations, and an inflammatory headline to go with it. I have made such points before. I never called it a rag, though Front accused me of that. I merely said that we should wait for more information before running off making assumptions, which many were happy to do, immediately. And some of those are still wrong, even as the information comes out. I don't think that Nadal fans have been the only ones, by far, marring the otherwise considered and unbiased opinion making on this thread.

I haven't really heard any other nadal fans say this. Where the non-nadal fans depart from Broken and it makes sense, is that we don't like Nadal generally and maybe this a direct action, that we feel fits with his character, and we already didn't like him. I wouldn't ask anybody to change their fandom. If it were Novak, he would still be my favorite player, but I would say that I did not like his actions. I don't think anybody is asking Rafa fans to change sides

That's also why I don't think it's character assassination. The people who disliked him already, dislike him more. Nobody is saying he committed genocide...

See that's where I disagree. Dislike is never my issue. I've been here long enough for everyone to know that I couldn't care less if people like Nadal. DarthFed and Haychew flat out say they despise the guy and I never ever respond to their posts negatively. If you dislike someone, anything negative he does will make you dislike him more. It's human nature and I wouldn't expect anything else.

But go back through this thread and tell me that Nadal being referred to as a *Word I won't type as a mod PM'd me and asked me not to* and a piece of garbage, yada yada yada...is not going overboard. This was portrayed as a case of corruption with Nadal instigating it (or at least, it was likened to cases of corruption). Also, it was clearly likened to cheating through similarly baffling analogies. I don't know about you but when you accuse someone of being corrupt or a cheat, that's pretty much a character assassination (I know some implied the ITF/ATP are corrupt, but by proxy, this would also include Nadal, who triggered the whole thing).

If this sounds redundant, it's because it is. I mentioned this before, and you thought it was an "interesting interpretation." But, as I'm sure you know, all of this is simply factual.

 

[lacatch]

1. Is there any other top player who CONSISTENTLY violates the time rules to his advantage, yet is infrequently called on it? NO

2. Is there any other top player who asked that an ump not be on his matches and that request was honored for MONTHS? NO

Bottom line: No top athlete (or any person for that matter) is a saint, but among the top players, Rafa has clearly bent/broken the rules more than any other.

PS--I wonder if Carlos B. is free to officiate a certain men's match next Wednesday? Now THAT would be a hoot! (Unless Jack Sock hits Rafa off the court on Monday)

 

[brokenshoelace]

1. Is there any other top player who CONSISTENTLY violates the time rules to his advantage, yet is infrequently called on it? NO

2. Is there any other top player who asked that an ump not be on his matches and that request was honored for MONTHS? NO

Bottom line: No top athlete (or any person for that matter) is a saint, but among the top players, Rafa has clearly bent/broken the rules more than any other.

1- Agreed.

2- Agreed.

BUT

Bottomline: Cilic has bent/broken the rules more than any other top players

It's funny how outrage at a failed drug test was far less subdued than this thread. Pretty weird. Food for thought. Not distracting from the topic at all. In fact, I'm only highlighting my earlier point.