Carlos Bernardes Withdrawn for Nadal Matches

Riotbeard

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Moxie629 said:
^ My reading of Novak's response was that he was answering in the theoretical to a general question, not about the Nadal situation, per se. OK, he knows why he was being asked, but I don't know why it should anger Nadal fans. He didn't say anything directly against Rafa, right?

He said requesting not to get a specific ump was "unfair." And he had never done it. Rafa requested not to have Bernardes to the ATP, therefore, Rafa's actions were unfair according to Novak.
 

brokenshoelace

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Novak was obviously answering with regards to the Nadal situation. Let's not be naive.
 

brokenshoelace

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Riotbeard said:
DarthFed said:
Broken_Shoelace said:
Mourinho has successfully done it in soccer, it's happened in boxing and MMA countless times. Not saying it's right but please don't spread false information under the pretext that this is anything new or unheard of. Jordan's never done it because no athlete in history was as protected by the refs so he had no reason to. Not disputing your logic but I'm disputing the facts you're putting forward.

Well I don't watch soccer and don't pay much attention to boxing which is well known for being corrupt. And what were the circumstances behind Mourino and the boxer's complaints? Was it due to the refs actually enforcing the rules?

On average Jordan got a lot of calls but the guy played over one thousand NBA games and even he and the Bulls would've gotten screwed over in a couple of them. I can't even picture him calling up Stern and saying "don't have Crawford or Bavetta ref my games anymore"

This whole line of reasoning is irrelevant, unless your point is that corruption in various forms is rampant through most sports, which I would say is hardly disputed (at least not by me).

This is not a line of reasoning. It is not meant to justify what happened. But there was a suggestion that this is unheard of, and I'm proving otherwise. These are facts. They don't right a wrong, but they put things in perspective. Also please this is not "corruption," let's not lose our minds here.
 

brokenshoelace

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Am I the only one who doesn't care about the relationship between players whose main purpose is to make sure the other doesn't win a title? 2011 SHOULD have hurt Nadal and Djokovic's relationship. I'd question both their mind sets if it didn't.
 

britbox

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^ No, I used to find the naivety laughable when people thought some of these players were close "friends". Human Instinct tells you that you want a rival to lose.
 

Riotbeard

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Broken_Shoelace said:
Am I the only one who doesn't care about the relationship between players whose main purpose is to make sure the other doesn't win a title? 2011 SHOULD have hurt Nadal and Djokovic's relationship. I'd question both their mind sets if it didn't.

I was speaking more from a PR perspective, not that Novak and Rafa would be ending their late night chats and gossip sessions. It's been a long time since they were friends.
 

GameSetAndMath

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Moxie629 said:
GameSetAndMath said:
Moxie, you are the one who is not reading my explanations clearly or not understanding it or
pretending not to understand it. I even explicitly brought attention to the following statement
ATP spokesman Simon Higson said the tour wouldn't comment on any specific decisions related to how it picks chair umpires for matches. Do you think that is transparency?

Now, you are saying that Rafa is good because he never asked the French Tennis Federation not to let Carlos chair his matches. But, he had asked ATP already and they have already honored it. May be he did not feel a need to separately ask the ITF again. Also, did you read the follow up sentence after the FFT's statement that Rafa did not ask. That basically says that even though Rafa did not ask, it is well known that there is a tussle here and we will not make carlos chair Rafa's matches.
May be ATP communicated to ITF, Rafa's request.

The final point is that you are trying to nitpick things while Rafa himself has openly admitted.
You are attempting to dissect the finer points, perhaps hoping that it will obfuscate the major issue here and people start discussing the difference between ATP and ITF perhaps.

I don't think it's nitpicking to try to identify what is factual and what is not, in news stories, and in what is said here. I'm trying to identify what was said in the press and what it means, and you are trying to obfuscate (copyright RB) and use it for your own ends. For example, your bolded above: it's not about ATP or ITF. You brought that up. Neither has anything to do with the FO, or the OP, which was about RG, by implication. I have addressed the fact that Rafa has said that he feels that they need a break from each other, and that the ATF has actually spoken to that, and said it's not uncommon. So it's not like the ATP hasn't commented. And for them to say that they won't comment on how they pick umpires for matches is not conspiratorily silent. We have seen that there are norms and guidelines. Otherwise, I don't see why they have to tell us. The rest is just reading in, on your part, and looking for spooks.

1. You are trying to make a fine distinction here that Rafa only asked the ATP and not the French Tennis Federation. If that distinction were really important when asked about the issue at the presser after his first match at RG, would not Rafa simply have stated that, "No, I did not ask the French Tennis Federation" and kept quiet. That would be like Clinton's statement "I did not have sex with that woman". Rafa is lot more honest than his fans. It is funny to note that his fans are defending here while Rafa has openly admitted.

2. ATP's statement is that "it is not that uncommon". Their statement is not "it is common". The former would mean something like, people think it happens just 1% of time, but actually it happens 5% of time. The later would mean it happens 50% of the time.

You are trying to read through the article to find out where you can put some spin to make your guy look good, instead of trying to understand the situation. So, you are trying to read it with colored glasses instead of simply being neutral and understanding what happened here.
 

GameSetAndMath

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I. Haychew said:
federberg said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/rafaelnadal/11631798/French-Open-2015-Rafael-Nadal-admits-demanding-ban-on-umpire-Carlos-Bernardes-following-Rio-Open-dispute.html

Is this a joke? Are we to actually believe that Folks put his shorts on backwards? My questions are...Did he put his shorts on backwards before the match? When did he come to the realization that he put his shorts on backwards? If he put his shorts on backwards before the match, would he not notice it during warm-ups? At what point during the match did he realize that he was pulling his crotch out of his ass? I don't know about you guys, but this seems ass-backwards to me!

It is not a joke. If you are curious, you may watch it at Rocky Shorts Change . But it appears to be at the beginning of the third set, which is weird. Most probably he took a bathroom break at the end of second set and changed shorts in the bathroom and put it on wrongly.
 

GameSetAndMath

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From USA Today:

Not that a deflated tennis ball would benefit anybody, but let’s say for the sake of argument that it did and a top player was caught deflating balls before a match at the French Open. Whereas the NFL would go for the strictest possible punishment — a four-game suspension — tennis would give the equivalent of a slap on the wrist. Come to think of it, a slap on the wrist is too much, as the slap still stings for an instant. No, tennis would give the equivalent of a gentle caress of the wrist and then issue the sort of fine you get for speeding in a school zone. It’s a complete joke.

This speaks to the complete lack of structure in tennis, which has been displayed so well by Rafael Nadal’s continued blackballing of chair umpire Carlos Bernardes, due to a series of minor run-ins that are inconsequential but came to a head during a match this winter when Bernardes gave Nadal a time violation during a match while the Spaniard was changing his shorts backwards on a changeover. The overarching theme is that Bernardes is the rare chair umpire unafraid of actually enforcing the time-between-points rule all other umps ignore.

As The Telegraph first reported and Nadal himself later confirmed, he later asked for Bernardes not to work his matches and his request was accepted. “Yes, it was my request,” Nadal to the newspaper, as if his demand was something routine. “I consider him [Bernardes] a great umpire and a good person, but I think when you have some troubles with the same umpire, sometimes it’s easy to stay for a while away, no?”

This is a pathetic display from a sport with non-existent rules enforcement. Since the governing bodies (the ATP and WTA, respectively) are basically impotent and operate at the whims of tournaments, you can see things like Nadal making the absurd request to ban a highly respected umpire from his matches and actually getting his wish.
 

mrzz

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^I am no Nadal fan, but the analogy made in this article is outrageous to say the least.
 

brokenshoelace

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GameSetAndMath said:
From USA Today:

Not that a deflated tennis ball would benefit anybody, but let’s say for the sake of argument that it did and a top player was caught deflating balls before a match at the French Open. Whereas the NFL would go for the strictest possible punishment — a four-game suspension — tennis would give the equivalent of a slap on the wrist. Come to think of it, a slap on the wrist is too much, as the slap still stings for an instant. No, tennis would give the equivalent of a gentle caress of the wrist and then issue the sort of fine you get for speeding in a school zone. It’s a complete joke.

This speaks to the complete lack of structure in tennis, which has been displayed so well by Rafael Nadal’s continued blackballing of chair umpire Carlos Bernardes, due to a series of minor run-ins that are inconsequential but came to a head during a match this winter when Bernardes gave Nadal a time violation during a match while the Spaniard was changing his shorts backwards on a changeover. The overarching theme is that Bernardes is the rare chair umpire unafraid of actually enforcing the time-between-points rule all other umps ignore.

As The Telegraph first reported and Nadal himself later confirmed, he later asked for Bernardes not to work his matches and his request was accepted. “Yes, it was my request,” Nadal to the newspaper, as if his demand was something routine. “I consider him [Bernardes] a great umpire and a good person, but I think when you have some troubles with the same umpire, sometimes it’s easy to stay for a while away, no?”

This is a pathetic display from a sport with non-existent rules enforcement. Since the governing bodies (the ATP and WTA, respectively) are basically impotent and operate at the whims of tournaments, you can see things like Nadal making the absurd request to ban a highly respected umpire from his matches and actually getting his wish.

OK, please, I'm really not being a jerk, but you're smart enough to realize this is an absolutely ludicrous analogy. I mean it is literally in no way comparable and we've actually been through this some 8929292 pages ago. It's baffling. I'm all for the discussion surrounding this topic, truly, otherwise I wouldn't be here 1239209220 pages later, but this is an insult to everyone's intelligence and a complete waste of time.

This thread has legitimately, with a straight face likened this situation to DeflateGate and the FIFA arrests. I mean...come on.
 

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Dumb analogy in the 1st paragraph but the rest of it is spot on. Men's tennis has a spineless governing body, one not to be trusted in any way shape or form to do the right thing.

This again begs the question, if a player can ban a chair ump from his own matches, what other things can he demand...and what other things might players be able to get away with? Even if some don't see the Cilic case as those evil two words (silent ban) does anyone have any doubt after this that there is no way in hell that the ATP would expose a top player if they failed a drug test? If they are doing anything to appease the top players there is no way they will hurt the game and their wallets by exposing them if they (hypothetically) failed a drug test.
 

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DarthFed said:
Dumb analogy in the 1st paragraph but the rest of it is spot on. Men's tennis has a spineless governing body, one not to be trusted in any way shape or form to do the right thing.

This again begs the question, if a player can ban a chair ump from his own matches, what other things can he demand...and what other things might players be able to get away with? Even if some don't see the Cilic case as those evil two words (silent ban) does anyone have any doubt after this that there is no way in hell that the ATP would expose a top player if they failed a drug test? If they are doing anything to appease the top players there is no way they will hurt the game and their wallets by exposing them if they (hypothetically) failed a drug test.

^Something I have always wondered and feared.
 

Denis

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GameSetAndMath said:
I. Haychew said:
federberg said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/rafaelnadal/11631798/French-Open-2015-Rafael-Nadal-admits-demanding-ban-on-umpire-Carlos-Bernardes-following-Rio-Open-dispute.html

Is this a joke? Are we to actually believe that Folks put his shorts on backwards? My questions are...Did he put his shorts on backwards before the match? When did he come to the realization that he put his shorts on backwards? If he put his shorts on backwards before the match, would he not notice it during warm-ups? At what point during the match did he realize that he was pulling his crotch out of his ass? I don't know about you guys, but this seems ass-backwards to me!

It is not a joke. If you are curious, you may watch it at Rocky Shorts Change . But it appears to be at the beginning of the third set, which is weird. Most probably he took a bathroom break at the end of second set and changed shorts in the bathroom and put it on wrongly.

Just pursuing this as a vengence for all the vigourous nonsensical Nadalite replies in this thread.

I wonder if Nadal has ticks in the bathroom too? How on earth would you end up with your shorts backwards after a potty break?
 

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Denisovich said:
GameSetAndMath said:
I. Haychew said:
Is this a joke? Are we to actually believe that Folks put his shorts on backwards? My questions are...Did he put his shorts on backwards before the match? When did he come to the realization that he put his shorts on backwards? If he put his shorts on backwards before the match, would he not notice it during warm-ups? At what point during the match did he realize that he was pulling his crotch out of his ass? I don't know about you guys, but this seems ass-backwards to me!

It is not a joke. If you are curious, you may watch it at Rocky Shorts Change . But it appears to be at the beginning of the third set, which is weird. Most probably he took a bathroom break at the end of second set and changed shorts in the bathroom and put it on wrongly.

Just pursuing this as a vengence for all the vigourous nonsensical Nadalite replies in this thread.

I wonder if Nadal has ticks in the bathroom too? How on earth would you end up with your shorts backwards after a potty break?

I've wondered the same myself. How exactly does that happen with a full grown adult? :nono
 

Denis

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federberg said:
Denisovich said:
GameSetAndMath said:
It is not a joke. If you are curious, you may watch it at Rocky Shorts Change . But it appears to be at the beginning of the third set, which is weird. Most probably he took a bathroom break at the end of second set and changed shorts in the bathroom and put it on wrongly.

Just pursuing this as a vengence for all the vigourous nonsensical Nadalite replies in this thread.

I wonder if Nadal has ticks in the bathroom too? How on earth would you end up with your shorts backwards after a potty break?

I've wondered the same myself. How exactly does that happen with a full grown adult? :nono

Maybe Carlos turned the lights off and Nadal did it in his pants?
 

I.Haychew

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federberg said:
Denisovich said:
GameSetAndMath said:
It is not a joke. If you are curious, you may watch it at Rocky Shorts Change . But it appears to be at the beginning of the third set, which is weird. Most probably he took a bathroom break at the end of second set and changed shorts in the bathroom and put it on wrongly.

Just pursuing this as a vengence for all the vigourous nonsensical Nadalite replies in this thread.

I wonder if Nadal has ticks in the bathroom too? How on earth would you end up with your shorts backwards after a potty break?

I've wondered the same myself. How exactly does that happen with a full grown adult? :nono

How much time do players get for potty breaks? Bernades WAS the umpire, and he's been known to enforce the time rules...especially when Folks is involved. So, maybe Folks had to pinch one off sooner
than he normally would and he had to hurry, for fear of possibly losing a point. Honest mistake, IMO. Not everyone drops a deuce at the same rate. Actually, now that I think about it, that means that Folks must have completely taken off his shorts to dump his load, which makes no sense to me. Maybe I'm weird, but I'm a "pants to the ankles" guy when I take a crap. I don't ever recall completely taking off my pants for the sole purpose of dropping one, which is what Folks must have done, unless his shorts were initially on backwards. Definitely one of those things that makes you go...Hmmm.
 

Kirijax

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I don't see what the fuss is about the backwards pants thing. It happens. A professional tennis player, in the heat of battle, is taking a potty break. His mind is racing, thinking about the match, how to win, fully charged and wanting to get back out there because of a time limit. If in a hurry, sure it's possible to put shorts on backwards. Maybe he noticed it when he was walking out but what it look like if he had already been walking out again and then suddenly ducked back in again. I think I might have done what Nadal did and just try to figure out what to do when I got to my chair.

That being said, it is Nadal's responsibility to work within the time limit though. If he puts his shorts on backwards by mistake and has to to a quick turnaround, and if he can't get changed quick enough, then accept the penalty. Simple enough isn't it? Bernardes shouldn't be like "Hahaha funny guy! Hurry up and get your pants on right while we make Fognini wait around a bit longer. I'm sure he won't mind!" ;)

I honestly have no idea what this thread was about. Wardrobe Malfunctions?
 

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Kirijax said:
I don't see what the fuss is about the backwards pants thing.

It's intended to be funny...to lighten things up a bit. Because things get WAY too tense around here sometimes!