2016 Australian Open Final: Djokovic v. Murray

[I.Haychew]

Even though I despise Murray, I still hope it's a good match...as long as No1e wins. I'll go with Djokovic in whatever it takes.

 

[Carol]

Novak will be beaten when his opponent believes in herself and confident. At that level of game there is a fine line between to win or to lose, one bad decision or error in some points can change the result. And also the confidence plays probably the most important roll.
I hope Muzz has his head enough clear to compete well and showing that he is one of the best and can beat to anyone. I don't believe in "that one is the best and unbeatable"

 

[I.Haychew]

Novak will be beaten when his opponent believes in herself and confident.

Bring on the WTA!

 

[Carol]

Novak will be beaten when his opponent believes in herself and confident.

Bring on the WTA!

The WTA? well, Serena is three times stronger (serve and shots) than anyone else, great advantage!

 

[tented]

Novak will be beaten when his opponent believes in herself and confident.

Bring on the WTA!

The WTA? well, Serena is three times stronger (serve and shots) than anyone else, great advantage!

He's teasing you because you accidentally wrote "herself" instead of "himself."

 

[Carol]

Bring on the WTA!

The WTA? well, Serena is three times stronger (serve and shots) than anyone else, great advantage!

He's teasing you because you accidentally wrote "herself" instead of "himself."

Oops! I got it

 

[Riotbeard]

So we wait to see what explanation there is for a 34 year old playing better tennis than anyone except the guy in the egg.

The sport is a joke these days and they're probably all doing something dodgy to be honest if the powers that be do nothing about it. It's a shame. They're even doping in water polo these days ffs :nono

https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/niksa-dobud-of-croatian-water-polo-suspended-for-four-years-by-fina-doping-panel/

"May be twice as much."

It's only dodgy if its illegal or cheating. What's dodgy about doing something not against the rules. If you want it made illegal is one thing, but you can't cheat by doing something that's available to every player, that is where your logic is faulty. Dislike it all you want, but to lose respect for a player or act like they're doing something untoward is totally different.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

So we wait to see what explanation there is for a 34 year old playing better tennis than anyone except the guy in the egg.

The sport is a joke these days and they're probably all doing something dodgy to be honest if the powers that be do nothing about it. It's a shame. They're even doping in water polo these days ffs :nono

https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/niksa-dobud-of-croatian-water-polo-suspended-for-four-years-by-fina-doping-panel/

"May be twice as much."

It's only dodgy if its illegal or cheating. What's dodgy about doing something not against the rules. If you want it made illegal is one thing, but you can't cheat by doing something that's available to every player, that is where your logic is faulty. Dislike it all you want, but to lose respect for a player or act like they're doing something untoward is totally different.

If it is something that ATP/ITF themselves felt on the borderline and thought that they need to take a serious look at it and make a decision, did they do it. Did they come out with an announcement saying, yes it is legal or no it is not legal. They probably did neither and turned a blind eye. Perhaps, the independent investigators looking into the governance of Tennis should investigate this too.

The notion that it is available to everyone may be correct in principle, but not in practice. It costs a lot of money and besides there are very few units available. So, not everybody can have easy access to it. You need to have money and connections to get access to it. Some 2 or 3 years ago, I first brought up this egg issue and then a separate thread got created for it.

 

[Riotbeard]

The sport is a joke these days and they're probably all doing something dodgy to be honest if the powers that be do nothing about it. It's a shame. They're even doping in water polo these days ffs :nono

https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/niksa-dobud-of-croatian-water-polo-suspended-for-four-years-by-fina-doping-panel/

"May be twice as much."

It's only dodgy if its illegal or cheating. What's dodgy about doing something not against the rules. If you want it made illegal is one thing, but you can't cheat by doing something that's available to every player, that is where your logic is faulty. Dislike it all you want, but to lose respect for a player or act like they're doing something untoward is totally different.

If it is something that ATP/ITF themselves felt on the borderline and thought that they need to take a serious look at it and make a decision, did they do it. Did they come out with an announcement saying, yes it is legal or no it is not legal. They probably did neither and turned a blind eye. Perhaps, the independent investigators looking into the governance of Tennis should investigate this too.

The notion that it is available to everyone may be correct in principle, but not in practice. It costs a lot of money and besides there are very few units available. So, not everybody can have easy access to it. You need to have money and connections to get access to it. Some 2 or 3 years ago, I first brought up this egg issue and then a separate thread got created for it.

By this logic, it should be illegal to have multiple coaches and a physio, etc. which are certainly not economically available to every player. I might even agree with it, but we know it's not the way sports work. Every top player has advantage not economically available to lower players, this is one that Novak chooses to pursue, and it is not illegal, so I can't see any reason to make a big deal out of it. I can't imagine if any other top player thought it would be of great use, they would not use it.

 

[nehmeth]

The notion that it is available to everyone may be correct in principle, but not in practice. It costs a lot of money and besides there are very few units available. So, not everybody can have easy access to it. You need to have money and connections to get access to it. Some 2 or 3 years ago, I first brought up this egg issue and then a separate thread got created for it.

How many units are out there? How much does it cost? You need to have money and connections?? Here's the link to them. They don't seem secretive, exclusive or prohibitively expensive.

http://cvacsystems.com/site/cvac-solutions-2/athletic-solutions

 

[GameSetAndMath]

"May be twice as much."

It's only dodgy if its illegal or cheating. What's dodgy about doing something not against the rules. If you want it made illegal is one thing, but you can't cheat by doing something that's available to every player, that is where your logic is faulty. Dislike it all you want, but to lose respect for a player or act like they're doing something untoward is totally different.

If it is something that ATP/ITF themselves felt on the borderline and thought that they need to take a serious look at it and make a decision, did they do it. Did they come out with an announcement saying, yes it is legal or no it is not legal. They probably did neither and turned a blind eye. Perhaps, the independent investigators looking into the governance of Tennis should investigate this too.

The notion that it is available to everyone may be correct in principle, but not in practice. It costs a lot of money and besides there are very few units available. So, not everybody can have easy access to it. You need to have money and connections to get access to it. Some 2 or 3 years ago, I first brought up this egg issue and then a separate thread got created for it.

By this logic, it should be illegal to have multiple coaches and a physio, etc. which are certainly not economically available to every player. I might even agree with it, but we know it's not the way sports work. Every top player has advantage not economically available to lower players, this is one that Novak chooses to pursue, and it is not illegal, so I can't see any reason to make a big deal out of it. I can't imagine if any other top player thought it would be of great use, they would not use it.

The issue is not just about top players being able to afford high quality shoes or coaches here.
The issue is about a borderline illegal stuff being allowed to remain with a "wink and nod" by ATP/ITF.
The ATP/ITF had clearly stated that the use of these are "not in the spirit of sportsmanship", but yet refused to ban it. Nobody would say using an expensive shoes or having multiple coaches is "not in the spirit of sportsmanship", even though they may not be affordable by lower ranked players.

 

[nehmeth]

The ATP/ITF had clearly stated that the use of these are "not in the spirit of sportsmanship".

Did the ATP/ITF also say that? Could you provide the link?

I know that WADA did, from the link Front posted.

http://www.dropshotdispatch.com/2011/10/13/djokovics-cvac-conundrum-djokovics-controversial-training-method-examined/

 

[Kieran]

Wait, are we really upset that Novak used/uses an oxygen tent? Oxygen?!

What's next, players who do yoga being accused of mystical voodoo?

That'd be Novak again! :snicker

 

[Front242]

So we wait to see what explanation there is for a 34 year old playing better tennis than anyone except the guy in the egg.

The sport is a joke these days and they're probably all doing something dodgy to be honest if the powers that be do nothing about it. It's a shame. They're even doping in water polo these days ffs :nono

https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/niksa-dobud-of-croatian-water-polo-suspended-for-four-years-by-fina-doping-panel/

"May be twice as much."

It's only dodgy if its illegal or cheating. What's dodgy about doing something not against the rules. If you want it made illegal is one thing, but you can't cheat by doing something that's available to every player, that is where your logic is faulty. Dislike it all you want, but to lose respect for a player or act like they're doing something untoward is totally different.

It's not available to every player since the low ranked players can't afford to use it so that's where the unfair advantage comes into things. HGH isn't available to everyone 'cos it costs an absolute fortune. Hence unfair advantage to those who can afford it also.

 

[Front242]

The notion that it is available to everyone may be correct in principle, but not in practice. It costs a lot of money and besides there are very few units available. So, not everybody can have easy access to it. You need to have money and connections to get access to it. Some 2 or 3 years ago, I first brought up this egg issue and then a separate thread got created for it.

How many units are out there? How much does it cost? You need to have money and connections?? Here's the link to them. They don't seem secretive, exclusive or prohibitively expensive.

http://cvacsystems.com/site/cvac-solutions-2/athletic-solutions

Apparently only 20 worldwide.

 

[Kieran]

In fairness, stretch limos and five star hotels and a gigantic entourage of back scratchers, food tasters, naughty masseuses, hair stylists, hitting partners, physics etc isn't within the price range of the less successful. That's not "unfair", it's part of the fruits of success...

 

[Front242]

In fairness, stretch limos and five star hotels and a gigantic entourage of back scratchers, food tasters, naughty masseuses, hair stylists, hitting partners, physics etc isn't within the price range of the less successful. That's not "unfair", it's part of the fruits of success...

Sure but you've completely missed the point. The guy went from cardio wreck to "fittest" on tour (in quotes because it's fitness from a machine) from 2010 to 2011 and has been a total beast every since. So the fruits of his success were bought by a machine lower ranked players can't afford so of course they have little chance of competing against that and that is 100% unfair. The biggest problem is the machine's benefits are probably undetectable like Argon/Xenon gas so even if they actually banned it he could still keep on using it anyway :nono Likewise there's not much hope of a natural lifter outlifting a juice head in the gym.

 

[Kieran]

No, I got the point. Novak earned a lot of money before he used the egg and so he could afford it. Any player who is as successful as Novak was before he used the egg could easily afford it too. Less successful players can't afford it. That's not unfair, that's competition. He was already wealthy and successful before he purchased a seat in the pod.

As for the legality or whatnot of the egg, it's clearly legal. So therefore he's doing nothing wrong. Should it be illegal? That's a different thread and not related to novak specifically. There's obviously advanced science involved. It kinda reminds me of the spaghetti stringed rackets of the seventies. The old guard tutted and expressed similar sentiments as the ones above - that it's not in the spirit of the game - and then banned it. "The spirit of the game" is difficult to define, however. It's a corporate sport, massive amounts of prestige and money are involved. These are rampantly ambitious young men. What "spirit" is in the sport for this to be "against it?" They no longer play by the amateur code.

And as you yourself said above, they're probably all doing something dodgy. Or as someone else might say, maybe they're not. They're just using the resources legally available - until they're no longer available...

 

[Front242]

Technology is constantly improving and there will always be something better out there. The next multi slam champion threatening to break all records will be some cyborg juiced up mofo no doubt about it. That's what it takes these days.

 

[Kieran]

Technology is constantly improving and there will always be something better out there. The next multi slam champion threatening to break all records will be some cyborg juiced up mofo no doubt about it. That's what it takes these days.

I agree. We already live an era where more records are being broke than Lance Armstrong, Ben Jonson and Justin Gatlin combined. With any other sport - as I've said before - they'd call in the outside agencies. But as long as an available technology is legal, the players would be fools not to use it. Today's juice is tomorrow's curdled milk...