2016 Australian Open Final: Djokovic v. Murray

[Riotbeard]

How are oxygen pods "not in the spirit of sports?"

In my view, there's a perhaps sometimes fine but still distinct line between using the latest technologies, modalities and regimes to optimize performance, and actually altering yourself physical chemistry or structure with drugs, injectibles, or--if we're talking about the future--cybernetic modifications. To me such things as oxygen pods and diets are safely away from the line; where it gets tricky are supplements that may or may not have hormones and performance-enhancing properties.

How can supplements with performance-enhancing properties be tricky, but not a technology which "may be twice as effective at helping the body absorb oxygen as blood doping—a banned form of performance enhancement"?

I think a really important distinction is healthy versus unhealthy human optimization technology. Affordable and according to all knowledge that I am aware of healthy things like the egg should be fine. What you don't want is a steroids arms race, which ultimately will limit athletes life-span after the sport. Why wouldn't we want athletes healthily improving their potential? Governing bodies shouldn't be stepping in to preserve some antiquated notion of normal, but instead, should be making sure people aren't making it impossible to compete in the sport without making unhealthy life decisions.

 

[tented]

How are oxygen pods "not in the spirit of sports?"

In my view, there's a perhaps sometimes fine but still distinct line between using the latest technologies, modalities and regimes to optimize performance, and actually altering yourself physical chemistry or structure with drugs, injectibles, or--if we're talking about the future--cybernetic modifications. To me such things as oxygen pods and diets are safely away from the line; where it gets tricky are supplements that may or may not have hormones and performance-enhancing properties.

How can supplements with performance-enhancing properties be tricky, but not a technology which "may be twice as effective at helping the body absorb oxygen as blood doping—a banned form of performance enhancement"?

I think a really important distinction is healthy versus unhealthy human optimization technology. Affordable and according to all knowledge that I am aware of healthy things like the egg should be fine. What you don't want is a steroids arms race, which ultimately will limit athletes life-span after the sport. Why wouldn't we want athletes healthily improving their potential? Governing bodies shouldn't be stepping in to preserve some antiquated notion of normal, but instead, should be making sure people aren't making it impossible to compete in the sport without making unhealthy life decisions.

But that's not what's in question here. The debate isn't whether or not egg-sitting is healthy. It's whether or not it provides an unfair advantage, a la blood doping.

 

[nehmeth]

Taylor Fritz using the egg.

https://twitter.com/Taylor_Fritz97/status/633102161363124224/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

[Front242]

In fairness, stretch limos and five star hotels and a gigantic entourage of back scratchers, food tasters, naughty masseuses, hair stylists, hitting partners, physics etc isn't within the price range of the less successful. That's not "unfair", it's part of the fruits of success...

The difference none of the items in your list from stretch limos to naughty masseuses is considered to be "not in the spirit of sports". The primary point is not about affordability. ATP/ITF does not want to intervene as they don't want to upset their top players. The top players indulge in it as they can afford it and as it gives them the advantage.

Again GSM, it was WADA that uses one of the three premises "not in the spirit of sport" to determine if something is to be banned. I have not found where the ITF/ATP has stated it. Also again, it's 50 dollars for a 20 minute session, so anyone in the top 100 should be able to afford it.

Thing is, there are only 20 or so worldwide apparently and the price of the sessions isn't the problem clearly at that price for the journeymen on tour. The issue is if a low ranked player is playing a tournament in Europe and his nearest CVAC is in New Jersey, for example. These low ranked players can't afford the flights over just to get their sneaky false fitness red cell blood increase. These lower ranked guys barely make a living. It really is only an option for the elite guys who could be playing a tournament in Asia one day and have no problem with the expense of flying miles away the next if it's gonna help turn them into a beast and win the biggest events. And that's not fair at all.

 

[nehmeth]

The difference none of the items in your list from stretch limos to naughty masseuses is considered to be "not in the spirit of sports". The primary point is not about affordability. ATP/ITF does not want to intervene as they don't want to upset their top players. The top players indulge in it as they can afford it and as it gives them the advantage.

Again GSM, it was WADA that uses one of the three premises "not in the spirit of sport" to determine if something is to be banned. I have not found where the ITF/ATP has stated it. Also again, it's 50 dollars for a 20 minute session, so anyone in the top 100 should be able to afford it.

Thing is, there are only 20 or so worldwide apparently and the price of the sessions isn't the problem clearly at that price for the journeymen on tour. The issue is if a low ranked player is playing a tournament in Europe and his nearest CVAC is in New Jersey, for example. These low ranked players can't afford the flights over just to get their sneaky false fitness red cell blood increase. These lower ranked guys barely make a living. It really is only an option for the elite guys who could be playing a tournament in Asia one day and have no problem with the expense of flying miles away the next if it's gonna help turn them into a beast and win the biggest events. And that's not fair at all.

Thing is Front, with only a day in between matches, whatever benefit from the "sneaky false fitness red blood cell increase" would be lost due to fatigue from flying half way around the world and back... according to your theory. :snicker

 

[Front242]

Again GSM, it was WADA that uses one of the three premises "not in the spirit of sport" to determine if something is to be banned. I have not found where the ITF/ATP has stated it. Also again, it's 50 dollars for a 20 minute session, so anyone in the top 100 should be able to afford it.

Thing is, there are only 20 or so worldwide apparently and the price of the sessions isn't the problem clearly at that price for the journeymen on tour. The issue is if a low ranked player is playing a tournament in Europe and his nearest CVAC is in New Jersey, for example. These low ranked players can't afford the flights over just to get their sneaky false fitness red cell blood increase. These lower ranked guys barely make a living. It really is only an option for the elite guys who could be playing a tournament in Asia one day and have no problem with the expense of flying miles away the next if it's gonna help turn them into a beast and win the biggest events. And that's not fair at all.

Thing is Front, with only a day in between matches, whatever benefit from the "sneaky false fitness red blood cell increase" would be lost due to fatigue from flying half way around the world and back... according to your theory. :snicker

Well it doesn't count when you're nearby a CVAC as is the case this week for Novak, CVAC whatever his name is Same at the USO. That's the first one he used and it's literally only a few miles away in New Jersey. There's a cumulative effect from increasing red blood cell count too. It doesn't suddenly just plummet. Much the same as Justin Gatlin being banned for steroids and yet years later still reaping the rewards from the same roids.

 

[Carol]

Then I hope that Muzz uses that CVAC too, it would be fair, it's going to help him to have more resistance, confidence, to be more aggressive and success of his shots, huge advantage!
That remind me to the Miss pageant, the contestants go through surgeries (chin, nose, teeth, etc to look much better :snicker)

 

[Riotbeard]

Thing is, there are only 20 or so worldwide apparently and the price of the sessions isn't the problem clearly at that price for the journeymen on tour. The issue is if a low ranked player is playing a tournament in Europe and his nearest CVAC is in New Jersey, for example. These low ranked players can't afford the flights over just to get their sneaky false fitness red cell blood increase. These lower ranked guys barely make a living. It really is only an option for the elite guys who could be playing a tournament in Asia one day and have no problem with the expense of flying miles away the next if it's gonna help turn them into a beast and win the biggest events. And that's not fair at all.

Thing is Front, with only a day in between matches, whatever benefit from the "sneaky false fitness red blood cell increase" would be lost due to fatigue from flying half way around the world and back... according to your theory. :snicker

Well it doesn't count when you're nearby a CVAC as is the case this week for Novak, CVAC whatever his name is Same at the USO. That's the first one he used and it's literally only a few miles away in New Jersey. There's a cumulative effect from increasing red blood cell count too. It doesn't suddenly just plummet. Much the same as Justin Gatlin being banned for steroids and yet years later still reaping the rewards from the same roids.

Make a sound argument front or give up. I know very well you are capable of it, as you are one of my favorite posters!

 

[nehmeth]

Found this article about the CVAC and its creators. From what I read it doesn't seem that any of the claimed benefits are verified.

http://www.outsideonline.com/1930416/secret-science-novak-djokovics-training-pod

 

[Fiero425]

Found this article about the CVAC and its creators. From what I read it doesn't seem that any of the claimed benefits are verified.

http://www.outsideonline.com/1930416/secret-science-novak-djokovics-training-pod

Without even reading it, I always thought of it as being a kind of placebo; a crutch to feel better as an athlete! Why all this hullabaloo I'll never understand! Is this comparable to PED's or growth hormones? I think not! uzzled :nono :angel:

 

[dante1976]

Poor Andy...

 

[golds girl]

Maybe I did choose the right match to stay up for...this might be done soon. Nole takes the first set 6-1 in a little over 30 mins

 

[pavlik89]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGXPHON6NF0[/video]

 

[pavlik89]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEC_tK0zvJc[/video]

 

[golds girl]

Andy has full on conversations with his box when he loses a point. I'm surprised he doesn't get warnings :/

 

[Busted]

Poor Andy...

:laydownlaughing I know he's had a tough 2 weeks with his wife being in London pregnant and his FIL getting carted away to the hospital...but...at least Roger won a freaking set! I'm not even bothering to watch the rest of the match. I don't even think Djokovic is playing all the well. Murray's pressing, he looks slow and his serve is still his biggest weakness. Five Aussie finals and he can't win even 1 of them? Oy vey.

 

[golds girl]

2nd set Nole.
Nole is playing his B game and getting roped into playing Andy's 20 shot rally from the baseline nonsense.
Hope he corrects that in the third. I won't know till tomorrow cause I'm throwing in the towel

 

[Front242]

Found this article about the CVAC and its creators. From what I read it doesn't seem that any of the claimed benefits are verified.

http://www.outsideonline.com/1930416/secret-science-novak-djokovics-training-pod

Without even reading it, I always thought of it as being a kind of placebo; a crutch to feel better as an athlete! Why all this hullabaloo I'll never understand! Is this comparable to PED's or growth hormones? I think not! uzzled :nono :angel:

Which part of twice as effective as blood doping do you appear to have missed here? :s

 

[Front242]

Andy has full on conversations with his box when he loses a point. I'm surprised he doesn't get warnings :/

That and cursing like a total scumbag at every opportunity. And the officials are such cowards they only fine Kyrgios when Murray is 100 times worse.

 

[Front242]

This is some crap final.