Will Nadal pass Federer?

[Carol]

In 2015 Rafa suffered a very bad foot injury and then is when the doctors discovered a congenital bone problem in the bridge of his left foot, they told him that his career as tennis player was finished and he started to think to swich to golf. But the destiny was very different and after to be for awhile out of the courts he start to play again using a special insole in his left shoe which helped to keep a good balance and avoiding the pain. But because everything is connected, the way he had to support his foot on the ground his knee little but little was hurted and we saw later the consecuences
I've never been a professional athlete but I danced ballet for 10 years, I played tennis (not too much anymore) and I'm a good swimmer I've never had injuries but due to dancing ballet for years I always have problems with the shoes, unfortunately I have too use expensive ones and not always are working well. Not too long ago I was using an inexpensive ones at work and I paid for that, my right knee started to bother me so badly that even I had not a bad injury I had to went through some treatments.

 

[El Dude]

Kieran, do you agree with the perspective that Rafa's greatness and weakness as a player are inextricably linked? That his style of play is at least partially (if not largely) responsible for his injury history?

 

[Carol]

Kieran, do you agree with the perspective that Rafa's greatness and weakness as a player are inextricably linked? That his style of play is at least partially (if not largely) responsible for his injury history?

Read my comment above please

 

[El Dude]

OK, I did, Carol. I'm not sure that disproves the idea. In fact, one could say that Rafa's "problem" (so to speak) is that he willfully ignored his own physical limitations. He developed a style of play that was conducive to injuries and hasn't been able to adapt from him.

I don't mean to knock him in any way, I just see a strong connection between his style of play and penchant for injury.

 

[Kieran]

Kieran, do you agree with the perspective that Rafa's greatness and weakness as a player are inextricably linked? That his style of play is at least partially (if not largely) responsible for his injury history?

Oh it's possible that it is, partially even, but his back going in the final of Oz in 2014? Federer's knee did him the courtesy of waiting til the event was ended.

His right wrist? Then his appendix? These things are random and unfortunate as much as anything. His knees at him from the age of 19 or 20?

I think if anything his style of play has exacerbated things, and no question about it, he hasn't always been clever in his scheduling. Example: in 2007, his knee was obviously an issue in the fourth set of the Wimbledon final, but after Wimbledon he played Stuttgart on clay, and by the time he arrived at Flushing Meadows, both knees were strapped. :cover

But a rugged attritional style of play isn't a guarantee that your knees will go, any more than Novak's style of play is a guarantee that his ankles will, or any other part of his body...

 

[El Dude]

Kieran, I was wondering if the difference in their weight might play a factor, but Rafa is listed as only 11 pounds heavier than Novak - not sure that makes a difference. Diet too can play a factor with joints. And of course a tendency towards bad knees can be a genetic thing.

I see it as a temperamental thing, also. Rafa is nothing if he isn't dogged and tenacious. This has been a major factor in his greatness, and is beloved by his fans and respected by all but his most ardent haters, but at the same time it has led to a kind of stubbornness with regards to his style of play. I'm wondering if a bit of flexibility and adaptation on his part earlier on might have led to a healthier and (probably/eventually) longer career, if perhaps a slightly less brilliant one at his best. Who knows, though.

 

[Front242]

Again, I'm not too sure it's so straight forward. Rafa had bad knees aged 20, with hardly yards on the clock, let alone miles. And as I say, his right wrist, not his left one went. That can't be from overdoing it, because it would never have gotten anywhere like the work Federers or stan's wrists would get from their one-hander. Sometimes these things are a local weakness in the body, or random bad luck, in which case it doesn't fall under the category of "a skill." As we see, Novak gives his ankles a helluva time - on hards! - but hasn't reported any injuries or wear and tear issues that we know of.

Sometimes they're due to physical punishment too, and bad scheduling, no question about it. Sometimes something else...

The right wrist could definitely be down to overdoing it but not on the courts :snicker

 

[Front242]

In 2015 Rafa suffered a very bad foot injury and then is when the doctors discovered a congenital bone problem in the bridge of his left foot, they told him that his career as tennis player was finished and he started to think to swich to golf. But the destiny was very different and after to be for awhile out of the courts he start to play again using a special insole in his left shoe which helped to keep a good balance and avoiding the pain. But because everything is connected, the way he had to support his foot on the ground his knee little but little was hurted and we saw later the consecuences
I've never been a professional athlete but I danced ballet for 10 years, I played tennis (not too much anymore) and I'm a good swimmer I've never had injuries but due to dancing ballet for years I always have problems with the shoes, unfortunately I have too use expensive ones and not always are working well. Not too long ago I was using an inexpensive ones at work and I paid for that, my right knee started to bother me so badly that even I had not a bad injury I had to went through some treatments.

I think you mean 2005 not 2015. Wouldn't say it was a very bad injury btw. Very bad indicates career ending and he's won 14 slams so it can't really have been very bad. He simply needs to wear insoles in his shoes same as a guy in my gym who lifts a ton on deadlifts and with special insoles it doesn't bother him one bit.

 

[dante1976]

Rafa is simply not built for his play style and that cost him a lot. With ~10kg's less on his knees/other joints he would be still "just fine" probably for a couple more years. That "half step" that he lost and "invisibility cloak" that he used to have (unfortunately for him not any more) cost him so much. No more easy wins for him 'cause almost everyone on tour aren't afraid to step in anymore. Sad stuff for that kind of a champion but everyone eventually will be in his "current shoes"... someone sooner and someone later but that's inevitability

 

[Front242]

His upper body is tiny now apart from his left bicep so if he lost another 10kg he'd be like Wee Man from Jackass.

 

[Carol]

El Dude, can you blame Delpo to have that brutal serve, FH and BH to make points? or Roger the way he serves to make free points (less effort to play, isn't?) and therefore the back discomfort? or Monfils, Tsonga and Nishi the style of play?
Rafa is right hand but plays better with the left, it means he is ambidextrous but not at the time to serve which is not working so well with his left hand so he can't make free point which helps so much to most of the players starting with Roger.
That repeatedly 'story' about his way to play is a little distorted and exaggerated, even without a powerful serve he is able to make superb shots and reaching the most incredible shots. If we talk about running all over the court from the baseline to the net and side to side then we should talk of Muzz and Novak, it's incredible the brutal effort they make to reach the most dificult balls
But the most important is that Rafa is healthy now and he just needs to click his mind to get back his totally confidence , then he will become the Rafa that we know, he still has time to do it

 

[Fiero425]

His upper body is tiny now apart from his left bicep so if he lost another 10kg he'd be like Wee Man from Jackass.

How screwed up in the head is this child? Rafa's a real right-hander, but made to play left-handed by his Svengali coach, Uncle Tony; all for that advantage! uzzled :nono :cover :angel: :dodgy:

 

[Front242]

El Dude, can you blame Delpo to have that brutal serve, FH and BH to make points? or Roger the way he serves to make free points (less effort to play, isn't?) and therefore the back discomfort? or Monfils, Tsonga and Nishi the style of play?
Rafa is right hand but plays better with the left, it means he is ambidextrous but not at the time to serve which is not working so well with his left hand so he can't make free point which helps so much to most of the players starting with Roger.
That repeatedly 'story' about his way to play is a little distorted and exaggerated, even without a powerful serve he is able to make superb shots and reaching the most incredible shots. If we talk about running all over tha court from the baseline to the net and side to side then we should talk of Muzz and Novak, it's incredible the effort they make to reach the most dificult balls
But the most important is that Rafa is healthy now and he just needs to click his mind to get back his totally confidence , then he will become the Rafa that we know, he still has time to do it

Carol, it's good to hope but in this case I'm afraid it's dreaming. All the tennis experts out there will say the same thing as us here. It's nothing mental. He's just not as fast or explosive anymore and his topspin is nothing close to what it was before when he was the size of a tank. Plus he hits tons of short balls. It's called age and wear and tear and it's only going to get worse as he gets older. Happens to every player but more so to guys who spent years running all over the place. Lleyton Hewitt is a good example not mentioned much as he was another guy who ran like a demon in every match but was plagued by foot and leg injuries as a result and once he lost what was once his strongest trait (his speed and physicality), he was toast.

 

[Front242]

The words you are looking for are good genetics, not lucky. You make your own luck. If you run match after match like a gazelle you're not unlucky, you're simply not being very clever in the long term. Compare the average length of Nadal's matches to Federer's and you'll see where the "luck" comes into it. They're often half the time of Nadal's. The "luck" is way less time on court due to a higher tennis IQ.

You couldn't write three lines without contradicting yourself. Is it a "higher tennis IQ" :cover , genetics, or playing long matches? Which one is it?

And I was under the impression - from you among others - that Rafa's matches were so long because he faffs about with towels and water bottles and itching and scratching and all sorts of nefarious schemes to drag things out.

You're eating the Federer body myth without salt, buddy. You're repeating the reheats...

Unfortunately the problem is not mine but yours. It's perfectly feasible for it to be all 3 above and none of them contradict each other one bit. I lift a lot of heavy weights. What makes me strong? genetics, years of lifting heavy, diet or possibly all 3? Jesus H Christ, it's possible for there to be more than one reason for something. :cover

 

[Carol]

I think that I've explained enough and honesty I don't have any wish to discuss again and again with his detractors which just want the worst wishes for Nadal instead to have all the respect he deserves and also expecting his best to make this sport more enjoyable but.....those numbers which are bringing them down the street of bitterness don't let them to think correctly and right now less than never :nono
Wherever Rafa is going to do from now it will be because him and not what his detractors think or wish so like that old movie "the words go with the wind", their comments don't go any place and can't changes anything from the past and neither the future

 

[DarthFed]

Rafa is simply not built for his play style and that cost him a lot. With ~10kg's less on his knees/other joints he would be still "just fine" probably for a couple more years. That "half step" that he lost and "invisibility cloak" that he used to have (unfortunately for him not any more) cost him so much. No more easy wins for him 'cause almost everyone on tour aren't afraid to step in anymore. Sad stuff for that kind of a champion but everyone eventually will be in his "current shoes"... someone sooner and someone later but that's inevitability

An "invisibility cloak" :snicker

Is Dante trying to create an inferno?

 

[Front242]

I think that I've explained enough and honesty I don't have any wish to discuss again and again with his detractors which just want the worst wishes for Nadal instead to have all the respect he deserves and also expecting his best to make this sport more enjoyable but.....those numbers which are bringing them down the street of bitterness don't let them to think correctly and right now less than never :nono
Wherever Rafa is going to do from now it will be because him and not what his detractors think or wish so like that old movie "the words go with the wind", their comments don't go any place and can't changes anything from the past and neither the future

You missed the point again. This has nothing to with his detractors. It's a fact that's plain as day simple to observe by anyone. Well most people anyway since you clearly can't see it :s The physical part of his game has declined noticeably.

 

[El Dude]

Carol35, I must say that it is awfully difficult to have a discussion with you about Rafa because you take anything but glowing praise as being a sign that one is a "detractor." I don't want to detract anything from Rafa, nor am I saying it is fault. He is, or was, a great player - one of the best ever. But like all players, he has limitations and weaknesses. One of his main limitations/weaknesses is difficulty staying healthy. I know you want to see it as bad luck, because that supports the myth of Rafa's Impregnability When Healthy, but I think there's more to it than that.

Also, I agree Front242 that its good to have hope about your favorite player. I still have hope that Roger can win #18, although my mind realizes that it is unlikely. I do think, though, that it is worth considering that Rafa is never going to be who he was in 2008-13, or even 2005-14. It has been almost two years now since we've seen peak Rafa and at his age it is hard to have a resurgence. I think the best you can hope for is an Indian Summer - a hot clay season that sees him somehow managing to win one more French Open. But I honestly think that's the most that can be reasonably hoped for.

 

[Kieran]

Going to the confidence and mental issue, is there anybody here who thinks that confidence and mental strength actually add something to a players game, physically? Of course they do! A nervous player moves less well, clumsily and slower. He doesn't hit so hard because he's not so sure. He takes pace off his serve and plays safe. Once his confidence returns he becomes more explosive, racing from side to side with renewed virility, chasing shots down, serving with gusto, hitting harder.

Rafa is not a confident player right now. Nor does he have that iron-grip mentality he last showed in 2013. So this is a problem for him to overcome. Are his issues physical, as in, he's slowed down and his WTA serve is terrible, etc, or are they emotional? I'd say right now they're both.

The real question is, are they terminal... :s

 

[Carol]

Carol35, I must say that it is awfully difficult to have a discussion with you about Rafa because you take anything but glowing praise as being a sign that one is a "detractor." I don't want to detract anything from Rafa, nor am I saying it is fault. He is, or was, a great player - one of the best ever. But like all players, he has limitations and weaknesses. One of his main limitations/weaknesses is difficulty staying healthy. I know you want to see it as bad luck, because that supports the myth of Rafa's Impregnability When Healthy, but I think there's more to it than that.

Also, I agree Front242 that its good to have hope about your favorite player. I still have hope that Roger can win #18, although my mind realizes that it is unlikely. I do think, though, that it is worth considering that Rafa is never going to be who he was in 2008-13, or even 2005-14. It has been almost two years now since we've seen peak Rafa and at his age it is hard to have a resurgence. I think the best you can hope for is an Indian Summer - a hot clay season that sees him somehow managing to win one more French Open. But I honestly think that's the most that can be reasonably hoped for.

When I said 'detractors' I wasn't talking about you because I see you are doing more or less a reasonable comments but I can's say the same thing about others
We'll see what is happening this year, maybe you and others are right and Rafa never is going to be the same or maybe you will be surprise if he will, like I said before I don't think is easy to know who will play better or worse, many things can happen and change and only the players have the key, the racket is in their hands, the victories or the losses too, it doesn't matter what we say, what we hope or not