Will Nadal pass Federer?

[Kieran]

Like the Dude said, it's good to have hope for our player. In fairness, it's not unreasonable hope, if you're a Fedal fan, from whichever side. Players of that pedigree don't need much encouragement to cling on, and eke out a big result...

 

[Fiero425]

Going to the confidence and mental issue, is there anybody here who thinks that confidence and mental strength actually add something to a players game, physically? Of course they do! A nervous player moves less well, clumsily and slower. He doesn't hit so hard because he's not so sure. He takes pace off his serve and plays safe. Once his confidence returns he becomes more explosive, racing from side to side with renewed virility, chasing shots down, serving with gusto, hitting harder.

Rafa is not a confident player right now. Nor does he have that iron-grip mentality he last showed in 2013. So this is a problem for him to overcome. Are his issues physical, as in, he's slowed down and his WTA serve is terrible, etc, or are they emotional? I'd say right now they're both.

The real question is, are they terminal... :s

I used to tell my students that tennis, like most sports is "all about confidence!" You can have all the ability in the world, but if you can't perform in the clutch, mediocrity is the watchword of the day! The confidence of Nole is what's setting him apart from everyone right now! I don't even think he's necessarily playing that well; just good enough to make the opponents look bad! In basketball you see what I'm talking about; Michael Jordon could be on the court with 4 other players that can't make a layup in a practice drill on the court in front of live fans, cameras, and that inevitable audience of millions! For long periods you see millionaire players who can't get the job done totally dependent on MJ saving the day, but put them out in a playground with HIS BOYS, it's all gold; he never misses! You see that in tennis to varying degrees! Federer embarrassed Murray at Wimbledon who was the legitimate #2 of last season IMO, but it didn't look anything like he had a chance to beat Nole in the final! Djokovic saved all those BP's Fed couldn't cash in on! That's why so many players fail more than succeed as time goes on; confidence is shaken! It's inevitable! :cover :nono

 

[Front242]

Carol35, I must say that it is awfully difficult to have a discussion with you about Rafa because you take anything but glowing praise as being a sign that one is a "detractor." I don't want to detract anything from Rafa, nor am I saying it is fault. He is, or was, a great player - one of the best ever. But like all players, he has limitations and weaknesses. One of his main limitations/weaknesses is difficulty staying healthy. I know you want to see it as bad luck, because that supports the myth of Rafa's Impregnability When Healthy, but I think there's more to it than that.

Also, I agree Front242 that its good to have hope about your favorite player. I still have hope that Roger can win #18, although my mind realizes that it is unlikely. I do think, though, that it is worth considering that Rafa is never going to be who he was in 2008-13, or even 2005-14. It has been almost two years now since we've seen peak Rafa and at his age it is hard to have a resurgence. I think the best you can hope for is an Indian Summer - a hot clay season that sees him somehow managing to win one more French Open. But I honestly think that's the most that can be reasonably hoped for.

When I said 'detractors' I wasn't talking about you because I see you are doing more or less a reasonable comments but I can's say the same thing about others
We'll see what is happening this year, maybe you and others are right and Rafa never is going to be the same or maybe you will be surprise if he will, like I said before I don't think is easy to know who will play better or worse, many things can happen and change and only the players have the key, the racket is in their hands, the victories or the losses too, it doesn't matter what we say, what we hope or not

Others are being reasonable too. You are not. You are blinded by Nadal. He is slower, he is not as explosive on his feet as he was, he hits balls way too short a lot of the time and opponents have no problem hitting winners off them, his physicality has diminshed noticeably. He's lost a ton of muscle. This, once again, is a fact and nothing about being a "detractor". For once, please just watch tennis without blind fan goggles and you'll see what we're saying is actually true. I mean, would you bet large amounts of money on any Nadal match now against a top player? If you would then fair play, that's brave, 'cos most wouldn't.

 

[Kieran]

You're being a bit one dimensional, buddy: would you bet that Rafa will never win a match against a top player, ever again? Bear in mind he hammered both Stan and Andy at the WTF...

 

[Fiero425]

Carol35, I must say that it is awfully difficult to have a discussion with you about Rafa because you take anything but glowing praise as being a sign that one is a "detractor." I don't want to detract anything from Rafa, nor am I saying it is fault. He is, or was, a great player - one of the best ever. But like all players, he has limitations and weaknesses. One of his main limitations/weaknesses is difficulty staying healthy. I know you want to see it as bad luck, because that supports the myth of Rafa's Impregnability When Healthy, but I think there's more to it than that.

Also, I agree Front242 that its good to have hope about your favorite player. I still have hope that Roger can win #18, although my mind realizes that it is unlikely. I do think, though, that it is worth considering that Rafa is never going to be who he was in 2008-13, or even 2005-14. It has been almost two years now since we've seen peak Rafa and at his age it is hard to have a resurgence. I think the best you can hope for is an Indian Summer - a hot clay season that sees him somehow managing to win one more French Open. But I honestly think that's the most that can be reasonably hoped for.

When I said 'detractors' I wasn't talking about you because I see you are doing more or less a reasonable comments but I can's say the same thing about others
We'll see what is happening this year, maybe you and others are right and Rafa never is going to be the same or maybe you will be surprise if he will, like I said before I don't think is easy to know who will play better or worse, many things can happen and change and only the players have the key, the racket is in their hands, the victories or the losses too, it doesn't matter what we say, what we hope or not

Others are being reasonable too. You are not. You are blinded by Nadal. He is slower, he is not as explosive on his feet as he was, he hits balls way too short a lot of the time and opponents have no problem hitting winners off them, his physicality has diminished noticeably. He's lost a ton of muscle. This, once again, is a fact and nothing about being a "detractor". For once, please just watch tennis without blind fan goggles and you'll see what we're saying is actually true. I mean, would you bet large amounts of money on any Nadal match now against a top player? If you would then fair play, that's brave, 'cos most wouldn't.

Some just don't want to hear or see it! :cover I've never been a fan and have lambasted Rafa for 10+ years, but I have always been realistic; saying that he would lose it for obvious reasons! He works too hard to win even early round matches against nobodies, wildcards, and also-rans! You can't get away with that forever, even though players like Ferrer and Berdych are holding on very nicely at the same level for many years! They weren't #1 and expected to win majors routinely though! Now, few matches can be thought of as routine for Roger and Rafa; should be some surprises this season! I'm still hopeful the next generation can step up; Raonic doing his part! "Come on Kei!" I'm done with Grigor (unless he shows up at my door)! :devil :angel: :dodgy: :cover

 

[Carol]

Carol35, I must say that it is awfully difficult to have a discussion with you about Rafa because you take anything but glowing praise as being a sign that one is a "detractor." I don't want to detract anything from Rafa, nor am I saying it is fault. He is, or was, a great player - one of the best ever. But like all players, he has limitations and weaknesses. One of his main limitations/weaknesses is difficulty staying healthy. I know you want to see it as bad luck, because that supports the myth of Rafa's Impregnability When Healthy, but I think there's more to it than that.

Also, I agree Front242 that its good to have hope about your favorite player. I still have hope that Roger can win #18, although my mind realizes that it is unlikely. I do think, though, that it is worth considering that Rafa is never going to be who he was in 2008-13, or even 2005-14. It has been almost two years now since we've seen peak Rafa and at his age it is hard to have a resurgence. I think the best you can hope for is an Indian Summer - a hot clay season that sees him somehow managing to win one more French Open. But I honestly think that's the most that can be reasonably hoped for.

When I said 'detractors' I wasn't talking about you because I see you are doing more or less a reasonable comments but I can's say the same thing about others

We'll see what is happening this year, maybe you and others are right and Rafa never is going to be the same or maybe you will be surprise if he will, like I said before I don't think is easy to know who will play better or worse, many things can happen and change and only the players have the key, the racket is in their hands, the victories or the losses too, it doesn't matter what we say, what we hope or not

Others are being reasonable too. You are not. You are blinded by Nadal. He is slower, he is not as explosive on his feet as he was, he hits balls way too short a lot of the time and opponents have no problem hitting winners off them, his physicality has diminshed noticeably. He's lost a ton of muscle. This, once again, is a fact and nothing about being a "detractor". For once, please just watch tennis without blind fan goggles and you'll see what we're saying is actually true. I mean, would you bet large
amounts of money on any Nadal match now against a top player? If you would then fair play, that's brave, 'cos most wouldn't.

Come on, stop to talk crap, you are the one with your Roger's fanatism always seen ghosts all over doing all kind of fake accusations and intrigues just with the purpose to defame and detract to who has beaten your fav. You can think and wish what ever you want, you won't change anything.
And yes, I'm watching tennis and that's the reason why I like Nadal as player and as human being, it doesn't matter if he is not playing well, I can't blame to anyone, just him, and....what!? he will find the solution, if you like it or not

 

[El Dude]

When I said 'detractors' I wasn't talking about you because I see you are doing more or less a reasonable comments but I can's say the same thing about others
We'll see what is happening this year, maybe you and others are right and Rafa never is going to be the same or maybe you will be surprise if he will, like I said before I don't think is easy to know who will play better or worse, many things can happen and change and only the players have the key, the racket is in their hands, the victories or the losses too, it doesn't matter what we say, what we hope or not

OK, thanks for clarifying. As you might know, I have said more than once that I'm never going to count Rafa out until he's, well, out. I have seen him come back too many times, and he thrives on being behind and regaining his form. That said, this seems different. It is one thing to be out for a few months and then take a few months to get back into form. Rafa hasn't been himself for almost two years. Even if we ignore the summer and fall of 2014 due to appendicitis, we're still looking at over a year of sub-par play.

That said...

You're being a bit one dimensional, buddy: would you bet that Rafa will never win a match against a top player, ever again? Bear in mind he hammered both Stan and Andy at the WTF...

There's this. Rafa looked very good, if not 2008-13 form, as recently as two months ago. I don't see why he can't surge in clay court season and win a title or three, even Roland Garros. Novak is the favorite, and then maybe Stan, but who is next? I'd put Rafa over Andy or Roger for RG, and maybe over Stan as well. He isn't done.

Now if he has a bad clay season, then it might be hard to ignore the crooning of the plus size lady...

 

[lacatch]

When I said 'detractors' I wasn't talking about you because I see you are doing more or less a reasonable comments but I can's say the same thing about others
We'll see what is happening this year, maybe you and others are right and Rafa never is going to be the same or maybe you will be surprise if he will, like I said before I don't think is easy to know who will play better or worse, many things can happen and change and only the players have the key, the racket is in their hands, the victories or the losses too, it doesn't matter what we say, what we hope or not

OK, thanks for clarifying. As you might know, I have said more than once that I'm never going to count Rafa out until he's, well, out. I have seen him come back too many times, and he thrives on being behind and regaining his form. That said, this seems different. It is one thing to be out for a few months and then take a few months to get back into form. Rafa hasn't been himself for almost two years. Even if we ignore the summer and fall of 2014 due to appendicitis, we're still looking at over a year of sub-par play.

That said...

You're being a bit one dimensional, buddy: would you bet that Rafa will never win a match against a top player, ever again? Bear in mind he hammered both Stan and Andy at the WTF...

There's this. Rafa looked very good, if not 2008-13 form, as recently as two months ago. I don't see why he can't surge in clay court season and win a title or three, even Roland Garros. Novak is the favorite, and then maybe Stan, but who is next? I'd put Rafa over Andy or Roger for RG, and maybe over Stan as well. He isn't done.

Now if he has a bad clay season, then it might be hard to ignore the crooning of the plus size lady...

Your "plus size lady" phrase is one of the funniest things I've seen on this board in a long time

 

[Carol]

When I said 'detractors' I wasn't talking about you because I see you are doing more or less a reasonable comments but I can's say the same thing about others
We'll see what is happening this year, maybe you and others are right and Rafa never is going to be the same or maybe you will be surprise if he will, like I said before I don't think is easy to know who will play better or worse, many things can happen and change and only the players have the key, the racket is in their hands, the victories or the losses too, it doesn't matter what we say, what we hope or not

OK, thanks for clarifying. As you might know, I have said more than once that I'm never going to count Rafa out until he's, well, out. I have seen him come back too many times, and he thrives on being behind and regaining his form. That said, this seems different. It is one thing to be out for a few months and then take a few months to get back into form. Rafa hasn't been himself for almost two years. Even if we ignore the summer and fall of 2014 due to appendicitis, we're still looking at over a year of sub-par play.


That said...

You're being a bit one dimensional, buddy: would you bet that Rafa will never win a match against a top player, ever again? Bear in mind he hammered both Stan and Andy at the WTF...

There's this. Rafa looked very good, if not 2008-13 form, as recently as two months ago. I don't see why
he can't surge in clay court season and win a title or three, even Roland Garros. Novak is the favorite, and then maybe Stan, but who is next? I'd put Rafa over Andy or Roger for RG, and maybe over Stan as well. He isn't done.

Now if he has a bad clay season, then it might be hard to ignore the crooning of the plus size lady...

Or if he has a good clay season then it might be hard to ignore the crooning of the plus size gentleman....:laydownlaughing

 

[Front242]

You're being a bit one dimensional, buddy: would you bet that Rafa will never win a match against a top player, ever again? Bear in mind he hammered both Stan and Andy at the WTF...

Those two are completely inconsistent so that's nothing major to brag about. Novak has beaten Andy 11 out of the last 12 matches and has beaten Rafa 9 out of the last 10. Grandad Federer likewise has beaten Andy the last 5 times and he hasn't even won a set in the last 4. Stan throws in a good match I'd say 2 in every 10 and Rafa did not hammer Stan. Stan hammered himself with errors as he was completely crap in their last 2 matches. Wait till he actually beats Stan playing well for a true gauge of progress.

 

[Kieran]

You're being a bit one dimensional, buddy: would you bet that Rafa will never win a match against a top player, ever again? Bear in mind he hammered both Stan and Andy at the WTF...

Those two are completely inconsistent so that's nothing major to brag about. Novak has beaten Andy 11 out of the last 12 matches and has beaten Rafa 9 out of the last 10. Grandad Federer likewise has beaten Andy the last 5 times and he hasn't even won a set in the last 4. Stan throws in a good match I'd say 2 in every 10 and Rafa did not hammer Stan. Stan hammered himself with errors as he was completely crap in their last 2 matches. Wait till he actually beats Stan playing well for a true gauge of progress.

Hey, just saying! You asked Carol would she bet money on Rafa beating a top player. Why wouldn't she? He hammered two of them at the WTF...

 

[Front242]

You're being a bit one dimensional, buddy: would you bet that Rafa will never win a match against a top player, ever again? Bear in mind he hammered both Stan and Andy at the WTF...

Those two are completely inconsistent so that's nothing major to brag about. Novak has beaten Andy 11 out of the last 12 matches and has beaten Rafa 9 out of the last 10. Grandad Federer likewise has beaten Andy the last 5 times and he hasn't even won a set in the last 4. Stan throws in a good match I'd say 2 in every 10 and Rafa did not hammer Stan. Stan hammered himself with errors as he was completely crap in their last 2 matches. Wait till he actually beats Stan playing well for a true gauge of progress.

Hey, just saying! You asked Carol would she bet money on Rafa beating a top player. Why wouldn't she? He hammered two of them at the WTF...

Any number of dopes could beat Stan unless he's in Stanimal mode. He's either unbelievably good or the complete opposite. Guess which he was at the WTF Murray was far from great too but I'll give Nadal more credit for beating him than the often craptastic Stan.

 

[Carol]

Why almost every time that I came back here to make a comment I have to log in again and again?
El Dude, maybe because you? :snicker

 

[Front242]

^ Just click remember me next time you login.

 

[Carol]

You're being a bit one dimensional, buddy: would you bet that Rafa will never win a match against a top player, ever again? Bear in mind he hammered both Stan and Andy at the WTF...

Those two are completely inconsistent so that's nothing major to brag about. Novak has beaten Andy 11 out of the last 12 matches and has beaten Rafa 9 out of the last 10. Grandad Federer likewise has beaten Andy the last 5 times and he hasn't even won a set in the last 4. Stan throws in a good match I'd say 2 in every 10 and Rafa did not hammer Stan. Stan hammered himself with errors as he was completely crap in their last 2 matches. Wait till he actually beats Stan playing well for a true gauge of progress.

Hey, just saying! You asked Carol would she bet money on Rafa beating a top player. Why wouldn't she? He hammered two of them at the WTF...

Yeah, but next time I should bet on Stan, he probably won't hammered himself and obviously he wil beat to anyone like always he does.........:snicker

 

[Kieran]

Those two are completely inconsistent so that's nothing major to brag about. Novak has beaten Andy 11 out of the last 12 matches and has beaten Rafa 9 out of the last 10. Grandad Federer likewise has beaten Andy the last 5 times and he hasn't even won a set in the last 4. Stan throws in a good match I'd say 2 in every 10 and Rafa did not hammer Stan. Stan hammered himself with errors as he was completely crap in their last 2 matches. Wait till he actually beats Stan playing well for a true gauge of progress.

Hey, just saying! You asked Carol would she bet money on Rafa beating a top player. Why wouldn't she? He hammered two of them at the WTF...

Any number of dopes could beat Stan unless he's in Stanimal mode. He's either unbelievably good or the complete opposite. Guess which he was at the WTF Murray was far from great too but I'll give Nadal more credit for beating him than the often craptastic Stan.

This is historic. You, me and Carol all agree: next time Rafa plays a top player, lay your money on him, if the top player is Standy.... :hug

 

[El Dude]

Why almost every time that I came back here to make a comment I have to log in again and again?
El Dude, maybe because you? :snicker

Haha, no no. What Front242 said.

 

[El Dude]

I don't think Stanimal is a good judge of anything, because when he's at his best he beats everyone - including Novak, as we saw last year. But most of the time he's more in the Berdych/Tsonga range.

Anyhow, I don't agree that Rafa will never beat another top player again. That said, if he stays as is he will never beat THE top player again.

 

[10isfan]

I think Nadal will win one more FO title, possible two more. Three to tie Fed? I doubt it. His game heavily relies on physicality. With age, he won't be able to hit with that much power or run the way he does now. Fed's record is safer against Nadal than against Djoke.

 

[Carol]

I think Nadal will win one more FO title, possible two more. Three to tie Fed? I doubt it. His game heavily relies on physicality. With age, he won't be able to hit with that much power or run the way he does now. Fed's record is safer against Nadal than against Djoke.

Are you serious? are you sure that Novak is going to win 6 more GS and meanwhile Rafa just one more and the others none?