What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

[Moxie]

Japan, Taiwan, and Sweden have all taken the approach that I favor. They are limiting cases without annihilating their own economies for weeks on end.

It's convenient to be small and particularly insular, in the case of Japan. I hope it works for them. But not really a workable model for the US, would you say?

 

[calitennis127]

To piggy-back off my last post, it is remarkable how no one on this board has mentioned this clear demonstration of WHO corruption from the Canadian doctor Bruce Aylward. In addition to the January 14 tweet, this interview shows just how much the WHO is influenced by the Chinese government:

 

[Moxie]

I have to say that it's utterly amazing how this is an international board yet there has been virtually no discussion of the WHO, China or the Chinese government's role in all this, like with this gem of a tweet. It's predictable that Tented, Tinfoil Federberg, and the Lebanese Elmer would look past this (since they are obsessed with Trump), but even Britbox and Mrzz are hardly talking about this:

No, it has come up.

 

[calitennis127]

It's convenient to be small and particularly insular, in the case of Japan. I hope it works for them. But not really a workable model for the US, would you say?

That's why I advocate a state-by-state and county-by-county approach. You mentioned 09/11 above. That is actually a great comparison because it was another example of New Yorkers acting like they are the only people in the entire country. I have always enjoyed going to New York City, but the USA is a massive country and not everyone lives in New York. Policies that make sense for NYC in this situation aren't necessarily the best thing for Wyoming, Vermont, South Carolina, and Oregon, or rural Pennsylvania and rural Illinois. There can be more variation to the USA's approach than just telling everyone to shut it down until June.

 

[calitennis127]

No, it has come up.

If it has, it has hardly been emphasized. The way in which focus has been deflected from China is remarkable.

 

[Moxie]

To piggy-back off my last post, it is remarkable how no one on this board has mentioned this clear demonstration of WHO corruption from the Canadian doctor Bruce Aylward. In addition to the January 14 tweet, this remarkable interview shows just how much the WHO is influenced by the Chinese government:

Without bothering with this, you are always hilarious/tedious with your ideas of how "no one has mentioned this." Well, just bring it up. You don't have to brow beat others that they didn't. The world is made up of many things. We are only so many posters. If you want something brought up, say it, FFS, without the editorial of why didn't the rest of us say it first?! Why be conspiratorial when you could be collegial? Life is short, and youtube is infinite. You can just introduce things into the conversation without an accusation that no one else thought of it first. OK? Can we make a pact on that?

 

[Moxie]

If it has, it has hardly been emphasized. The way in which focus has been deflected from China is remarkable.

It has been discussed, and I believe there's a thread for conspiracies. If you missed it, that's on you.

 

[Moxie]

That's why I advocate a state-by-state and county-by-county approach. You mentioned 09/11 above. That is actually a great comparison because it was another example of New Yorkers acting like they are the only people in the entire country. I have always enjoyed going to New York City, but the USA is a massive country and not everyone lives in New York. Policies that make sense for NYC in this situation aren't necessarily the best thing for Wyoming, Vermont, South Carolina, and Oregon, or rural Pennsylvania and rural Illinois. There can be more variation to the USA's approach than just telling everyone to shut it down until June.

I completely agree that it has to be a state-by-state approach. We are a big country with varying needs, and god-willing, the virus won't be so impactful on the less-populated areas. But to say that either now or post-9/11 we have now or ever acted likely we're the only people in the country, I will tell you that you are a compassionless c*&t.

Same I would say if you can't sympathize particularly with New Orleans, which seems about to be hit by the virus, big time. They also suffered so hugely after Katrina. Or Boston, which has a lot of cases. And they had a terrorist bombing. It's not easy to be a big city. We give more to the economy, but we can get hit harder. When we are in extremis, we can seem very needy. But most of the time, we are the ones stoking the fires for the economy. Places like Idaho don't ask for as much, but nor do they give as much, to the common good. And if they can get back to work without a great deal of sequestering, good for them. However, with the exception of Hawaii and Alaska, we are a contiguous group of states, and some precautions will need to be taken. The governors of MS and FL have decided that they won't take big precautions. Other governors, including Republican ones, have felt differently. We're all learning on the job here.

 

[britbox]

Sweden has taken more of my approach and has had decent success. I'm sure Britbox would be disappointed that they aren't being hysterical enough in shutting down all small businesses at gunpoint and requiring everyone to stay home until June 30th.

No lockdown here: Sweden defends its more relaxed coronavirus strategy
PUBLISHED MON, MAR 30

Unlike its immediate neighbors Denmark, Finland and Norway, Sweden has not closed its borders or its schools; neither has it closed non-essential businesses or banned gatherings of more than two people, like the U.K. and Germany.

No lockdown here: Sweden defends its more relaxed coronavirus strategy

While the rest of Europe imposes severe restrictions on public life and closes borders and businesses, Sweden is taking a more relaxed approach to the coronavirus outbreak.

www.cnbc.com

Your approach? It's nothing like your approach in the slightest. You were all for mass gatherings of thousands of people at sporting events and business conferences. They are basing it on social distancing and homeworking.

Anyway, it's hardly the time to be judging anything as a decent "success" right now. This has a long way to play out. Only a couple of weeks or so, you were mocking the US figures as being paltry. Remember?

 

[Federberg]

Cali, this is no more than a blog post. They even write the number 350 as "35o". This is not scientific data, it is still in the realm of anecdotal. This from Snopes on that. The doctor has published no data and it's all on his word. That's not really how scientific testing works. No controls, say, for age or other factors.

You really should read the things you post. We're all hoping that something works, even if just as a placeholder until we get a vaccine. You do understand how clinical trials work though, right? This is provisionally approved because it is less likely to cause more harm than good. Sure, if I got the virus, or someone I loved did, I'd want them to give this a try. But to pronounce it a cure is before time.

he can't help it. He truly is a moron...

 

[Federberg]

$20 trillion lawsuit against China! US group says coronavirus is bioweapon

Coronavirus update: The plaintiffs have sought USD 20 trillion, which is a bigger amount than China's GDP, claiming coronavirus is the result of a biological weapon prepared by the Chinese authorities

www.businesstoday.in

 

[Federberg]

Don't get me started again.

@mrzz interested in hearing your response to a friend of mine who spent years in Brazil and speaks fluently. Fancies himself as a Brazil expert. Credit trader. For context, he and I have been arguing about the whole coronavirus thing since day 1. He's one of those who believes that there is a massive over-reaction. Here's what he said to me today, when I said that I thought Bolsonaro was crazy...

He isn't as crazy as the press would have you believe
Don't listen to people in Rio
Makes Chicago look like heaven
He took over a country on the edge of bankruptcy
With a murder rate of 80k a year
Rio is over
The PT have sucked that tit to desacation
I agree he says tasteless things and has no filter
But, what he is trying to do with his political, tax and economic reforms are necessary
Rio was a thriving market, most managers have moved to SP

 

[Federberg]

 

[mrzz]

I have to say that it's utterly amazing how this is an international board yet there has been virtually no discussion of the WHO, China or the Chinese government's role in all this, like with this gem of a tweet. It's predictable that Tented, Tinfoil Federberg, and the Lebanese Elmer would look past this (since they are obsessed with Trump), but even Britbox and Mrzz are hardly talking about this:

I have zero doubt that the Chinese state acted in a despicable way, and it will do it again every time it is necessary. They did try to conceal it (putting whistle blowers in jail in December and January), and they should be penalized for that -- even if I don't know how, given their strength. Also, I am pretty sure that a lot of their "cultural habits" simply don't mix well with a developed world.

I am not talking about this, because, first I am not talking that much -- I admit I cannot still understand completely what is going on. I am more in a reactive mode to crazy things going on. Second, yes, at some point we need to find someone to blame, but that is not the priority right now.

 

[britbox]

To piggy-back off my last post, it is remarkable how no one on this board has mentioned this clear demonstration of WHO corruption from the Canadian doctor Bruce Aylward. In addition to the January 14 tweet, this interview shows just how much the WHO is influenced by the Chinese government:

I agree with you on the WHO, they have been pretty woeful.

 

[mrzz]

@mrzz interested in hearing your response to a friend of mine who spent years in Brazil and speaks fluently. Fancies himself as a Brazil expert. Credit trader. For context, he and I have been arguing about the whole coronavirus thing since day 1. He's one of those who believes that there is a massive over-reaction. Here's what he said to me today, when I said that I thought Bolsonaro was crazy...

He isn't as crazy as the press would have you believe
Don't listen to people in Rio
Makes Chicago look like heaven
He took over a country on the edge of bankruptcy
With a murder rate of 80k a year
Rio is over
The PT have sucked that tit to desacation
I agree he says tasteless things and has no filter
But, what he is trying to do with his political, tax and economic reforms are necessary
Rio was a thriving market, most managers have moved to SP

In a nutshell, your friend is, best case scenario, some stubborn idiot that is doubling down his bets as he has no other way to confront factual reality. Worst case scenario he is the greatest retard of all time. The expected shortfall in his case it is just some dumb parrot thinking about his own ass and nothing more.

Ok, let's debunk it, phrase by phrase:

"He isn't as crazy as the press would have you believe"

He is. All that I have been posting is factual data. You know I check things before I post. He is breaking social distancing almost on a daily basis, against the advice of his own minister of health. His ministers almost instantly walk back or deny what he claims. His vice-president contradicts him explicitly. His own position (and wording of his positions) changes by the day. This has nothing to do with the press, unless the press is able to do this all with computer graphics.

"Don't listen to people in Rio"

As much as I don't like Rio, it is a 10 million people city. So we just don't listen, right. People there are worried because, surprise surprise, there is the capital of little tiny tiny little Brazilian problem called FAVELAS, where MILLIONS live packed together with poor sanitary conditions. And, maybe, just maybe, if Covid-19 spreads through there it could be a major public health problem. But, yeah, don't listen to them.

"Makes Chicago look like heaven"

I would love to know Chicago -- I love the Blues. He probably got this one right. Problem is that it is exactly because this is true that the former assertion is false.

"He took over a country on the edge of bankruptcy"

Factually wrong. Temer, the guy who assumed when Dilma was impeached, took a country in the edge of bankruptcy (two years before him). Actually the real edge of bankruptcy was even before the impeachment, the own PT government was forced by congress to curb public spending. He got a country in bad economical shape? Yes. It is fucking Brazil if he haven't noticed before. And what the fuck this has to do with shitty crisis management?

"With a murder rate of 80k a year"

50 k. Get your fucking facts straight.

"Rio is over"

I think he means "finished". Yes, Rio is the main drive for the number above. Strangely enough Bolsonaro (electoral) home state. He was a congressman representing Rio for almost 30 years. He shares the blame.

"The PT have sucked that tit to desacation"

PT sucks massively, in a lot of different ways. But, again, factually incorrect. Rio is crime infested since forever.

"I agree he says tasteless things and has no filter"

This is the smallest problem. Nobody, NOBODY is complaining about tasteless things now. People are complaining about senseless, baseless things. People are complaining about contradictory things.

"But, what he is trying to do with his political, tax and economic reforms are necessary"

Not "his" reforms. ZERO of those reforms are "his" reforms. EVERYTHING started on the previous government (Temer). And given his profound political inability, a lot of sensitive issues are not being discussed. One of the few aspects of his political campaign that I agree with partially (privatization, leaving health and education out of it) is not being pushed hard enough, and his "super-minister" said before the election that he didn't like the previous privatization model, from former president FHC, which was EXTREMELY successful. Actually, the lack of privatizations is a clear broken promise, how the hell guys from the market are not complaining I don't know.

"Rio was a thriving market, most managers have moved to SP"

So what? I live in fucking SP. "Managers" here live with a target on their backs. If I had real money I would NEVER live here. But, what the fuck this has to do with the conversation?


Ok, I was just being a pain in the ass with the answers. But I will use an argument that surely will resonate with you: Bolsonaro main talking point is the economy. Right, the problem is that he only started talking about the economy in MID MARCH!!!! This fucking shit is on the news AT LEAST from January. I was in south east asia back in January, my browser history shows that, on January 14th, I was studying the flights out of Wuhan, to check if the pandemic would reach me before I would go back. The epidemiologists here were planning for it by that time as well. What the fuck was he doing?

He clearly, CLEARLY, only realized the impact when governors started to lock down. How fucking dumb is that?

Do you wanna know my (real) opinion about how he is managing this: he is simply doubting everything. He thinks that all, or the absolute majority of doctors and biologists in the world are colluding with the world press to take over the world. That doctors here, exhausted after long and long hours fighting the usual lack of conditions here AND the beginning of the pandemic, are falsifying data (by the way, it does not even work that way). He is stupid AND disconnected to reality. His voters, struggling to face the shame, are simply in denial. All they can say is that PT was worst. I don't give a flying fuck about PT. Honestly, fuck this people.

PS/EDIT: Sorry all for the rent. Probably a lot of misspells and typos above, no time to revise it.

 

[Federberg]

In a nutshell, your friend is, best case scenario, some stubborn idiot that is doubling down his bets as he has no other way to confront factual reality. Worst case scenario he is the greatest retard of all time. The expected shortfall in his case it is just some dumb parrot thinking about his own ass and nothing more.

Ok, let's debunk it, phrase by phrase:

"He isn't as crazy as the press would have you believe"

He is. All that I have been posting is factual data. You know I check things before I post. He is breaking social distancing almost on a daily basis, against the advice of his own minister of health. His ministers almost instantly walk back or deny what he claims. His vice-president contradicts him explicitly. His own position (and wording of his positions) changes by the day. This has nothing to do with the press, unless the press is able to do this all with computer graphics.

"Don't listen to people in Rio"

As much as I don't like Rio, it is a 10 million people city. So we just don't listen, right. People there are worried because, surprise surprise, there is the capital of little tiny tiny little Brazilian problem called FAVELAS, where MILLIONS live packed together with poor sanitary conditions. And, maybe, just maybe, if Covid-19 spreads through there it could be a major public health problem. But, yeah, don't listen to them.

"Makes Chicago look like heaven"

I would love to know Chicago -- I love the Blues. He probably got this one right. Problem is that it is exactly because this is true that the former assertion is false.

"He took over a country on the edge of bankruptcy"

Factually wrong. Temer, the guy who assumed when Dilma was impeached, took a country in the edge of bankruptcy (two years before him). Actually the real edge of bankruptcy was even before the impeachment, the own PT government was forced by congress to curb public spending. He got a country in bad economical shape? Yes. It is fucking Brazil if he haven't noticed before. And what the fuck this has to do with shitty crisis management?

"With a murder rate of 80k a year"

50 k. Get your fucking facts straight.

"Rio is over"

I think he means "finished". Yes, Rio is the main drive for the number above. Strangely enough Bolsonaro (electoral) home state. He was a congressman representing Rio for almost 30 years. He shares the blame.

"The PT have sucked that tit to desacation"

PT sucks massively, in a lot of different ways. But, again, factually incorrect. Rio is crime infested since forever.

"I agree he says tasteless things and has no filter"

This is the smallest problem. Nobody, NOBODY is complaining about tasteless things now. People are complaining about senseless, baseless things. People are complaining about contradictory things.

"But, what he is trying to do with his political, tax and economic reforms are necessary"

Not "his" reforms. ZERO of those reforms are "his" reforms. EVERYTHING started on the previous government (Temer). And given his profound political inability, a lot of sensitive issues are not being discussed. One of the few aspects of his political campaign that I agree with partially (privatization, leaving health and education out of it) is not being pushed hard enough, and his "super-minister" said before the election that he didn't like the previous privatization model, from former president FHC, which was EXTREMELY successful. Actually, the lack of privatizations is a clear broken promise, how the hell guys from the market are not complaining I don't know.

"Rio was a thriving market, most managers have moved to SP"

So what? I live in fucking SP. "Managers" here live with a target on their backs. If I had real money I would NEVER live here. But, what the fuck this has to do with the conversation?


Ok, I was just being a pain in the ass with the answers. But I will use an argument that surely will resonate with you: Bolsonaro main talking point is the economy. Right, the problem is that he only started talking about the economy in MID MARCH!!!! This fucking shit is on the news AT LEAST from January. I was in south east asia back in January, my browser history shows that, on January 14th, I was studying the flights out of Wuhan, to check if the pandemic would reach me before I would go back. The epidemiologists here were planning for it by that time as well. What the fuck was he doing?

He clearly, CLEARLY, only realized the impact when governors started to lock down. How fucking dumb is that?

Do you wanna know my (real) opinion about how he is managing this: he is simply doubting everything. He thinks that all, or the absolute majority of doctors and biologists in the world are colluding with the world press to take over the world. That doctors here, exhausted after long and long hours fighting the usual lack of conditions here AND the beginning of the pandemic, are falsifying data (by the way, it does not even work that way). He is stupid AND disconnected to reality. His voters, struggling to face the shame, are simply in denial. All they can say is that PT was worst. I don't give a flying fuck about PT. Honestly, fuck this people.

PS/EDIT: Sorry all for the rent. Probably a lot of misspells and typos above, no time to revise it.

that was perfect mate. With your permission I might show some of the sectional response to him. I'll be glad to finally have the ammunition to shut his a$$ up!

 

[britbox]

From what I can see (and admittedly it's data sourced from Wiki but referencing state and government health records), confirmed clinical data indicates the Pandemic is virtually at the 2009 Swine Flu level already in the USA.

In 2009, the states reported clinically confirmed cases as:

115,318 Confirmed Cases
27,632 Hospitalizations
3,433 Confirmed Deaths

The current US Data for the Coronavirus is:

164,435 Confirmed Cases
3,175 Confirmed Deaths

155,000 of the cases are still in progress without an outcome.

Aggregate Hospitalization data hasn't been provided but on Thursday there were 5,327 hospitalized in New York State alone.

The CDC later produced estimates following the 2009 Swine Flu Pandemic

60.8 million cases, 274,000 hospitalizations, and 12,469 deaths based on data models.

I'm sure they will do the same with this Pandemic. It's likely to be considerably higher based on current trends.

 

[Federberg]

From what I can see (and admittedly it's data sourced from Wiki but referencing state and government health records), confirmed clinical data indicates the Pandemic is virtually at the 2009 Swine Flu level already in the USA.

In 2009, the states reported clinically confirmed cases as:

115,318 Confirmed Cases
27,632 Hospitalizations
3,433 Confirmed Deaths

The current US Data for the Coronavirus is:

164,435 Confirmed Cases
3,175 Confirmed Deaths

155,000 of the cases are still in progress without an outcome.

Aggregate Hospitalization data hasn't been provided but on Thursday there were 5,327 hospitalized in New York State alone.

The CDC later produced estimates following the 2009 Swine Flu Pandemic

60.8 million cases, 274,000 hospitalizations, and 12,469 deaths based on data models.

I'm sure they will do the same with this Pandemic. It's likely to be considerably higher based on current trends.

and if Fauci's base case that Trump has woken up to of 100,000 - 200,000 is right it'll make swine flu look like the little b1tch that "10" is.

And PS, it won't mean that the orange buffoon has done a good job. We need only compare to other developed nations. It would be a shocking underperformance in comparison to nations who allegedly have inferior health care systems

 

[mrzz]

that was perfect mate. With your permission I might show some of the sectional response to him. I'll be glad to finally have the ammunition to shut his a$$ up!

Be my guest!