What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

[Murat Baslamisli]

There is a small chance that our beloved Brazilian president is infected. It may change complete my perception about this virus. Considering that his mental age is two years old, and his beliefs resemble the ones a 558 years old would have, that leaves him with something around (558+2)/2 = 280 years old of probable/expected age. Good prospect for a change.

Our PM is under quarantine as well. I hope he stays there for just about 8 months or so . And be healthy of course...

 

[britbox]

Oh yeah, I am really being "anti-fact" by pointing out how the numbers for swine flu in 2009 dwarfed what is going on with coronavirus but the New York Times and Washington Post at that time did not try to bring the global economy to a standstill because their god was in the White House.

You won't know the overall Coronavirus figures yet Cali, it's a work in progress.... and hardly anybody has been tested for it in the US.

People are quoting infections and death ratios before the outcomes.

Here is some food for thought:

Spain COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Spain Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Italy COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Italy Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Look at the ratio on the outcomes, where it has played out.

On your theory that the Washington Post is responsible for all the decisions made by governments around the world, perhaps you could show us the plethora of articles that convinced the Italian government to go into lockdown, the Chinese to put Wuhan into quarantine and other countries taking unprecedented actions. Just providing the articles before it happened should cover it.

As for the Guardian, you do realize it's not even in the Top 10 newspapers in the UK (by print)? and fourth if you combine print/web? Yeah, the Conservative Daily Mail occupies the top spot in the combo of web/print, the Conservative rag The Sun is #1 in print.

If you think the Guardian is responsible for the decision making of a Conservative UK Government then I'm afraid you're gravely mistaken.

The general consensus is that Governments take advice from their top medical professionals over matters like this. It also gives them an "out" if things don't go to plan. They can refer to top medical advice in decision making, rather than a feature writer in a foreign newspaper.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

You won't know the overall Coronavirus figures yet Cali, it's a work in progress.... and hardly anybody has been tested for it in the US.

People are quoting infections and death ratios before the outcomes.

Here is some food for thought:

Spain COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Spain Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Italy COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Italy Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Look at the ratio on the outcomes, where it has played out.

On your theory that the Washington Post is responsible for all the decisions made by governments around the world, perhaps you could show us the plethora of articles that convinced the Italian government to go into lockdown, the Chinese to put Wuhan into quarantine and other countries taking unprecedented actions. Just providing the articles before it happened should cover it.

As for the Guardian, you do realize it's not even in the Top 10 newspapers in the UK (by print)? and fourth if you combine print/web? Yeah, the Conservative Daily Mail occupies the top spot in the combo of web/print, the Conservative rag The Sun is #1 in print.

If you think the Guardian is responsible for the decision making of a Conservative UK Government then I'm afraid you're gravely mistaken.

The general consensus is that Governments take advice from their top medical professionals over matters like this. It also gives them an "out" if things don't go to plan. They can refer to top medical advice in decision making, rather than a feature writer in a foreign newspaper.

I am totally cool with the info , with the exception of number of cases. I have a feeling a lot of folks that have this maybe don't even think twice about it as for a healthy person this apparently feels a lot like a cold. So the ratio is kind of tough to rely on, no?

 

[britbox]

I am totally cool with the info , with the exception of number of cases. I have a feeling a lot of folks that have this maybe don't even think twice about it as for a healthy person this apparently feels a lot like a cold. So the ratio is kind of tough to rely on, no?

Agreed, I mentioned that in other posts... and I don't expect the end results to be anything like that high. Let's say it ends up something like a 3% figure. That's still high if you have widespread contagion.

 

[Front242]

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

There is a small chance that our beloved Brazilian president is infected. It may change complete my perception about this virus. Considering that his mental age is two years old, and his beliefs resemble the ones a 558 years old would have, that leaves him with something around (558+2)/2 = 280 years old of probable/expected age. Good prospect for a change.

I love your posts,just saying.

 

[Federberg]

French football suspended until further notice

Arsenal manager has the virus

Chelsea player has the virus

Premier league yet to suspend matches....

 

[Federberg]

Champions League and Europa League suspended. Where are you Premier league???

 

[britbox]

Champions League and Europa League suspended. Where are you Premier league???

Only a matter of time. Everton's squad has gone into self-isolation.

 

[britbox]

But in a previous post you said "Murat this thing is an order of magnitude more lethal than the flu. " and asked me to question my information. I gave you all the links that I get my info from. I am not saying those links are 100% and they are not political websites, but like you said, we are sharing info here.
The "collateral impact" you are talking about , the economic implications and all...I agree with you . My business is already suffering. The question is , is the impact because of the reaction to what is going on? Is it proportional? It is fairly obvious that some believe the reaction is not even nearly enough, others believe it is the right reaction and some think it is a bit too much. Is it OK to discuss the reaction and what it is doing to the economy?

It's an interesting question. I think most of us are in agreement that for healthy people under a certain age then this is going to be little more than mild inconvenience health-wise.

What seems to be the main issue is the speed of contagion and lack of immunity. Judging by the comments from the British and German governments over the last few days, they expect most people to get it. I guess you have to try and manage the spread - you don't want 50 million people getting it in the same week.

 

[Federberg]

It's an interesting question. I think most of us are in agreement that for healthy people under a certain age then this is going to be little more than mild inconvenience health-wise.

What seems to be the main issue is the speed of contagion and lack of immunity. Judging by the comments from the British and German governments over the last few days, they expect most people to get it. I guess you have to try and manage the spread - you don't want 50 million people getting it in the same week.

also fascinating thinking about the difference policy options in a free society versus an authoritarian one. China seems to have shut this thing down with prejudice while governments in Europe pretty much accept they can't do the same so 70% of their societies might fall prey to the infection.

 

[Federberg]

Only a matter of time. Everton's squad has gone into self-isolation.

Finally! Premier League has finally got religion and cancelled until April. Test matches against Sri Lanka also cancelled.

I fear we're set to have a global recession guys, and it won't be a good one. The thing to watch will be the US credit markets. If the anticipated stresses play out this will spill into other fixed income markets, and there are a lot of Emerging Market countries which have borrowed heavily in dollars. Looking more and more like this could be as bad as 2008/09. Trump is going to go mad, the only question is how his madness manifests. Get ready for some serious cray cray..

 

[Federberg]

 

[mrzz]

I love your posts,just saying.

Oh, that's sweet. Thank you very much!

 

[isabelle]

French schools closed for 6 weeks, it's forbidden to visit old people in retirement houses....all sports events cancelled...stupid virus

 

[calitennis127]

You won't know the overall Coronavirus figures yet Cali, it's a work in progress.... and hardly anybody has been tested for it in the US.

People are quoting infections and death ratios before the outcomes.

Look at the ratio on the outcomes, where it has played out.

I am not disputing that there will be more cases reported over time.....of course there will be. The question is whether the media and economic response to this outbreak have been proportionate. I argue that they have not.

On your theory that the Washington Post is responsible for all the decisions made by governments around the world, perhaps you could show us the plethora of articles that convinced the Italian government to go into lockdown, the Chinese to put Wuhan into quarantine and other countries taking unprecedented actions. Just providing the articles before it happened should cover it.

What I am saying is that all of these actions you are referring to are rooted in a consensus that this virus is ferocious, potent, and deadly on a scale that is unimaginable and unprecedented. Once that consensus is established, then yes, it makes sense to shut down everything for the next 3 months. But I object to the consensus itself.

You keep bringing up China and Italy, as if those are the only two countries in the world. Why don't you mention the paucity of cases in the former Soviet bloc countries around China?

As for the Guardian, you do realize it's not even in the Top 10 newspapers in the UK (by print)? and fourth if you combine print/web? Yeah, the Conservative Daily Mail occupies the top spot in the combo of web/print, the Conservative rag The Sun is #1 in print.

Thank you for that info. That is actually quite encouraging. But you did not address BBC, which from what I can tell does retain a very high standing in the UK in terms of prestige and respectability.

That said, one thing that is the case with right-wing media in both the U.S. and Europe is that it is generally REACTIVE. It does not start the news cycle so much as provide contrarian opinions to whichever stories the left blows up. This is the case for both Fox News in the U.S. and The Daily Mail.

If you think the Guardian is responsible for the decision making of a Conservative UK Government then I'm afraid you're gravely mistaken.

I think newspapers such as The Guardian - starting with the NYT and Washington Post - have created an international consensus that everyone else is operating off of.

The general consensus is that Governments take advice from their top medical professionals over matters like this. It also gives them an "out" if things don't go to plan. They can refer to top medical advice in decision making, rather than a feature writer in a foreign newspaper.

I'm afraid that I think you are being naïve on this point. Of course, all the government officials are listening to leading medical professionals. But this entire process is highly politicized. If you think this episode is just an extension of biology class with good-faith people pursuing the truth, then you are highly mistaken. From the start this mania around coronavirus has been a highly, highly political phenomenon. You simply refuse to look at that dimension for some reason at the moment. In the United States most Democrats on TV look like kids on Christmas because they are seeing in this an opportunity to take down Trump.

 

[britbox]

I am not disputing that there will be more cases reported over time.....of course there will be. The question is whether the media and economic response to this outbreak have been proportionate. I argue that they have not.

What I am saying is that all of these actions you are referring to are rooted in a consensus that this virus is ferocious, potent, and deadly on a scale that is unimaginable and unprecedented. Once that consensus is established, then yes, it makes sense to shut down everything for the next 3 months. But I object to the consensus itself.

You keep bringing up China and Italy, as if those are the only two countries in the world. Why don't you mention the paucity of cases in the former Soviet bloc countries around China?

Thank you for that info. That is actually quite encouraging. But you did not address BBC, which from what I can tell does retain a very high standing in the UK in terms of prestige and respectability.

That said, one thing that is the case with right-wing media in both the U.S. and Europe is that it is generally REACTIVE. It does not start the news cycle so much as provide contrarian opinions to whichever stories the left blows up. This is the case for both Fox News in the U.S. and The Daily Mail.



I think newspapers such as The Guardian - starting with the NYT and Washington Post - have created an international consensus that everyone else is operating off of.



I'm afraid that I think you are being naïve on this point. Of course, all the government officials are listening to leading medical professionals. But this entire process is highly politicized. If you think this episode is just an extension of biology class with good-faith people pursuing the truth, then you are highly mistaken. From the start this mania around coronavirus has been a highly, highly political phenomenon. You simply refuse to look at that dimension for some reason at the moment. In the United States most Democrats on TV look like kids on Christmas because they are seeing in this an opportunity to take down Trump.

Nobody outside of the US thinks this coronavirus has any connection to Trump's election campaign. Even for those inside the US, most seem to regard it as some deranged tribal paranoid narrative.

I keep bringing up China and Italy? Sorry, old sport - this is where this virus has been the most prevalent. It might not feed your narrative but it makes sense. If we're talking about a virus, maybe the countries that have been affected the most would be a good place to begin. Perhaps you'd rather we talk about the South Pole?

 

[britbox]

What I am saying is that all of these actions you are referring to are rooted in a consensus that this virus is ferocious, potent, and deadly on a scale that is unimaginable and unprecedented. Once that consensus is established, then yes, it makes sense to shut down everything for the next 3 months. But I object to the consensus itself.

Has it occurred to you that some of these "crazy" preventative measures might actually be having a positive impact?

Slowing the spread, allowing medical services the space to cope?

Of course, you want to deal with the hyperbolic - somebody sneezes and everyone within 100m drops dead. Let's talk about reality.

So, let's just say 15% of Americans are over 65. We're talking about 50 million people, hard numbers.

Let's assume a lowly figure, like 10% are really susceptible to this virus. That gives us 5 million.

Do you want all those 5 million demanding attention in Week 1 or do you want a more orderly spread out contagion and course of treatment that agencies can cope with?

Now factor that across every country across the globe. You're dealing with a virus that people are not immune. Sorry, you might miss that Lakers game, but it is what it is.

 

[calitennis127]

Nobody outside of the US thinks this coronavirus has any connection to Trump's election campaign.

Then they aren't looking hard enough.

Even for those inside the US, most seem to regard it as some deranged tribal paranoid narrative.

Yes, and those are people with a deranged hatred for Trump that has caused them in the past to support Michael Avenatti for president. It's not my fault that you are unaware of what is going on among the U.S. media.

I keep bringing up China and Italy? Sorry, old sport - this is where this virus has been the most prevalent. It might not feed your narrative but it makes sense. If we're talking about a virus, maybe the countries that have been affected the most would be a good place to begin. Perhaps you'd rather we talk about the South Pole?

I actually suggested the former Soviet bloc countries, but you were strangely silent about them. I could also bring up India, which has over a billion people and terrible healthcare in multiple places but hasn't been hit. Why don't you talk about any of the places that have barely been affected by this reincarnation of the Black Plague?

 

[britbox]

Then they aren't looking hard enough.

Yes, and those are people with a deranged hatred for Trump that has caused them in the past to support Michael Avenatti for president. It's not my fault that you are unaware of what is going on among the U.S. media.

I actually suggested the former Soviet bloc countries, but you were strangely silent about them. I could also bring up India, which has over a billion people and terrible healthcare in multiple places but hasn't been hit. Why don't you talk about any of the places that have barely been affected by this reincarnation of the Black Plague?

Any in particular?