US Politics Thread

Kieran

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Hello folks. I decided months ago to just back out of discussing US politics on the forum. As you all know I loathe Trump with a passion. I wanted him to lose. If I'm being honest the reason I withdrew from chatting was because I was so terrified that he would win. I'm devastated for the Ukrainians, I'm worried for NATO. But I'm man enough to accept the L. I've gone back reading some of my comments on this and the political correctness forums. In a funny way I actually anticipated this, albeit sub-consciously. I know some will say that Kamala lost, or Biden lost. Well.. yes I guess so, but to me, it goes back to the issue I and others have ranted about for years. I think the Democratic Party's brand has been damaged by wokeness. I know some will not want to acknowledge this, but I think more so than Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, the Democratic Party itself, specifically, lost. And this below could have been said by me... in fact, looking back at some of my arguments... I kinda did...:facepalm::anxious-face-with-sweat:


The Democrats and the left in general are so obsessed about identity that they have lost their own identity. You can only change your look so many times before nobody recognises you anymore..
 

Federberg

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The Democrats and the left in general are so obsessed about identity that they have lost their own identity. You can only change your look so many times before nobody recognises you anymore..
I’m just stunned that they were rejected despite Trump. Anyone else yes. But him? Sigh…
 

Kieran

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I’m just stunned that they were rejected despite Trump. Anyone else yes. But him? Sigh…
Well, not to be flippant, but I think the Democrats thought “anyone else but him” would work, but people don’t like being taken for granted by politicians..
 

tented

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Hello folks. I decided months ago to just back out of discussing US politics on the forum. As you all know I loathe Trump with a passion. I wanted him to lose. If I'm being honest the reason I withdrew from chatting was because I was so terrified that he would win. I'm devastated for the Ukrainians, I'm worried for NATO. But I'm man enough to accept the L. I've gone back reading some of my comments on this and the political correctness forums. In a funny way I actually anticipated this, albeit sub-consciously. I know some will say that Kamala lost, or Biden lost. Well.. yes I guess so, but to me, it goes back to the issue I and others have ranted about for years. I think the Democratic Party's brand has been damaged by wokeness. I know some will not want to acknowledge this, but I think more so than Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, the Democratic Party itself, specifically, lost. And this below could have been said by me... in fact, looking back at some of my arguments... I kinda did...:facepalm::anxious-face-with-sweat:


IMG_2065.gif


There’s a lot of truth here. Even as a liberal/Democrat, I think the PC/woke language and behavior have gone way too far and alienated millions. Her example of Latinx is perfect. They don’t even like it, based on interviews I’ve seen. It’s white, woke millennials who made this up out of nowhere, acting like they understood Latinos‘ needs and desires better than they did themselves.

The pronoun problem is another prime example. When individuals want to be called “they/them”, it seems ridiculous to millions — because it is. Unless you’re conjoined twins, using a plural pronoun to refer to one person is silly.

And there’s no arguing the science behind which sex someone is. Less than .5 % of the population can be genuinely said to have a genetic makeup which doesn’t fall neatly into the standard XX/XY dichotomy. These individuals can be legitimately referred to as being “intersex”. People who want to get attention and be different, and therefore desire to become part of a created minority group, by referring to themselves as nonbinary are a joke to millions, and see the Democrats as being totally OK with this nonsense. A male, i.e., someone with XY chromosomes, is not a female. This is factual science; it‘s not comparative literature. Hence, males competing against females (those with XY chromosomes) in sports is rightly looked upon as stupid by millions of American voters, and they have just sent that message to the world by rejecting Democrats all over the country.

This election wasn’t just a rejection of Harris - it was a rejection of Democrats. That’s the only explanation for all of the Democratic loses in the House of Representatives and the Senate, otherwise it would have only (or at least mainly) been a loss for Harris. When incumbent members of the Democratic Party, especially Senators, also go down with the Presidential candidate, the message is loud and clear.

If liberals/Democrats have any chance in the future, common sense must be restored. Latinos are Latinos. Individual males and females are he/him and her/she, respectively. A male cannot suddenly decide he’s female and compete against geniune females. And no one should put up with the absolutely insane BS of “I identify as a cat”.

The Democratic Party has been dominated at the top for too long by people from the Coasts, who have tried to force their ultra-PC/woke agenda onto the rest of the country, and it has failed spectacularly. Democrats from the Midwest, for example, need to take control of the leadership, and steer the Party in a very different direction.
 

britbox

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Every time I try to appreciate one of your best rants, you manage to ruin it. Once again, blaming women for Trump winning. What about the 55% of men, overall who voted for Trump? 60% of white men. Women may have underperformed for Harris, but let's lay the blame where it should be...dudes. Give me a miss with your constantly complaining about how women vote. Men have a stake in this race, too, and don't just keep giving them a pass. We can't do it by ourselves.

It didn't take long for El Dude's prophecy to play out. :face-with-tears-of-joy:
 

Federberg

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And btw.....rigged 100% for 2020.

View attachment 9781
I'm not sure that data is telling what you think it is. The reason is glaringly obvious. 2020 was the covid election. Special efforts were made to permit mail in voting. That is... you didn't have to go and queue up to vote. There you are sitting your a$$ at home, crawling up walls with not much to do. If anyone thinks that wouldn't dramatically alter the incentive to vote then I'll have the drug they're taking (I could do with some delusion in my life right now). There's no doubt there would have been vast numbers of people who normally disengage from the electoral process who sat there watching George Floyd riots, covid lockdowns, Trump talking about injecting bleach and said... you know what? For the effort of sending my vote by mail.. I'll give my view. It is beyond illogical to think that it had anything to do with fraud.

PS, it constantly amazes me that the side most willing to , and also the most caught, cheating is the one that cries fraud. This is gaslighting on a prodigious scale
 
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tented

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I'm not sure that data is telling what you think it is. The reason is glaringly obvious. 2020 was the covid election. Special efforts were made to permit mail in voting. That is... you didn't have to go and queue up to vote. There you are sitting your a$$ at home, crawling up walls with not much to do. If anyone thinks that wouldn't dramatically alter the incentive to vote then I'll have the drug they're taking (I could do with some delusion in my life right now). There's no doubt there would have been vast numbers of people who normally disengage from the electoral process who sat there watching George Floyd riots, covid lockdowns, Trump talking about injecting bleach and said... you know what? For the effort of sending my vote by mail.. I'll give my view. It is beyond illogical to think that it had anything to do with fraud.

But 2020 also taught Americans you can vote at home, regardless of the year. Everyone who was able to sit on their ass and vote from home in 2020 could have done so in 2024, too.

PS, it constantly amazes me that the side most willing to , and also the most caught, cheating is the one that cries fraud. This is gaslighting on a prodigious scale

Absolutely! It’s the standard tactic of accusing others what you’re guilty of yourself.
 
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Federberg

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But 2020 also taught Americans you can vote at home, regardless of the year. Everyone who was able to sit on their ass and vote from home in 2020 could have done so in 2024, too.



Absolutely! It’s the standard tactic of accusing others what you’re guilty of yourself.
you're right that people could still continue to vote from home. But I think it's important to remember what we were living through. I don't think it's the norm for a large number of people to engage politically. Let's face it, the economy is actually pretty good at the moment. A huge number of people who were previously drawn in would have zero incentive to participate in what was a fairly sordid electoral cycle. I might loathe Trump but damn he's good at dissuading people from voting!
 
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britbox

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I'm not sure that data is telling what you think it is. The reason is glaringly obvious. 2020 was the covid election. Special efforts were made to permit mail in voting. That is... you didn't have to go and queue up to vote. There you are sitting your a$$ at home, crawling up walls with not much to do. If anyone thinks that wouldn't dramatically alter the incentive to vote then I'll have the drug they're taking (I could do with some delusion in my life right now). There's no doubt there would have been vast numbers of people who normally disengage from the electoral process who sat there watching George Floyd riots, covid lockdowns, Trump talking about injecting bleach and said... you know what? For the effort of sending my vote by mail.. I'll give my view. It is beyond illogical to think that it had anything to do with fraud.

PS, it constantly amazes me that the side most willing to , and also the most caught, cheating is the one that cries fraud. This is gaslighting on a prodigious scale


Electoral Fraud does exist - and I think it's safe to say it exists to a certain extent in every election and in every country. The issue isn't so much about the fraud, but whether it was significant enough to change the outcome.

There is a good database on the Heritage website - https://electionfraud.heritage.org that links to specific court rulings regarding US Election fraud. It's not insignificant... and before certain people jump up and down crying about the messengers - the data is authentic and documented.

I worked an election here in Oz at the behest of a group putting independents forward. We actually witnessed some anomalies with boxes of ballot papers being moved in personal cars.... it caused much bleating about Election interference.... However, I know that it made no impact on the result. The usual lines of people who would vote LibLNP (similar to Cons/Tories) or Labour walking up to vote for whomever would govern them harder... It's a tiny dent in a well-oiled machine.

Having said that - as a guy who has worked with data and patterns my entire life - the data shifts in some of those swing states in 2020 didn't seem quite organic. I mentioned it at the time. Whether it affected the outcome is another matter. Without cast iron evidence to the contrary, you have to accept it as it is.
 
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Moxie

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I know what you’re trying to say but you can’t blame the electorate when you lose an election. Give them a candidate that’s worth voting for and they’ll vote for her, or him, based on what they feel is good for themselves and the country.

Blaming the electorate isn’t the way, these days. They voted in Obama twice, Biden got a huge mandate last time. In the UK, the Conservatives have had 3 women PM’s - including the incredible Margaret Thatcher who forcefully busted through the glass ceiling way back in the seventies (why she isn’t the ultimate feminist icon, I haven’t a clue) - and they just selected a black woman to lead them, based on merit, not on her ethnicity.

The Labour Party in the UK haven’t even had a single woman leader, but the toxicity of the left when it comes to race and gender is well known…


:popcorn
No, I don't think you understood at all what I was trying to say. I wasn`t' really blaming anyone. That was an exasperated response to Fiero who blames women for every election Dems have lost since 2016, at least. It's also meant to be humorous, which is why I wrote "dudes." I somehow have forgotten any time you've thought to tell Fiero to stop blaming the electorate, in all of his many posts blaming women, including yesterday. No, your only reason for this post is to reiterate your own agenda on gender. Try to keep your sense of humor, eh? As to @britbox, who also responded to my post, thinking I was blaming men, well, he can't read, I guess, and lost his sense of humor years ago. :lulz1:

I think a lot of people voted on the economy, rightly or wrongly.
 
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Federberg

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Electoral Fraud does exist - and I think it's safe to say it exists to a certain extent in every election and in every country. The issue isn't so much about the fraud, but whether it was significant enough to change the outcome.

There is a good database on the Heritage website - https://electionfraud.heritage.org that links to specific court rulings regarding US Election fraud. It's not insignificant... and before certain people jump up and down crying about the messengers - the data is authentic and documented.

I worked an election here in Oz at the behest of a group putting independents forward. We actually witnessed some anomalies with boxes of ballot papers being moved in personal cars.... it caused much bleating about Election interference.... However, I know that it made no impact on the result. The usual lines of people who would vote LibLNP (similar to Cons/Tories) or Labour walking up to vote for whomever would govern them harder... It's a tiny dent in a well-oiled machine.

Having said that - as a guy who has worked with data and patterns my entire life - the data shifts in some of those swing states in 2020 didn't seem quite organic. I mentioned it at the time. Whether it affected the outcome is another matter. Without cast iron evidence to the contrary, you have to accept it as it is.
I’m not sure I said election fraud doesn’t exist. I merely provided a rational and fairly obvious reason why 2020 was unique
 
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Kieran

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No, I don't think you understood at all what I was trying to say. I wasn`t' really blaming anyone. That was an exasperated response to Fiero who blames women for every election Dems have lost since 2016, at least. It's also meant to be humorous, which is why I wrote "dudes." I somehow have forgotten any time you've thought to tell Fiero to stop blaming the electorate, in all of his many posts blaming women, including yesterday. No, your only reason for this post is to reiterate your own agenda on gender. Try to keep your sense of humor, eh? As to @britbox, who also responded to my post, thinking I was blaming men, well, he can't read, I guess, and lost his sense of humor years ago. :lulz1:

I think a lot of people voted on the economy, rightly or wrongly.
I don’t “correct” people on things, I say what I think, and I’ve gotten into it with @Fiero425 on many things, I don’t have all day to correct him on every little thing he says. :lol6:

I don’t “correct” you on everything either. Sometimes I even agree with you - ever hear of a chap called Ralph? But I world love for you to tell me what my “agenda on gender is.”

That would be worth reading… :popcorn
 

Kieran

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If this it’s true - that you’re not allowed to touch the ruler of Saudi Arabia - I give huge kudos to Trump here :clap::clap::clap:

 

Front242

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I'm not sure that data is telling what you think it is. The reason is glaringly obvious. 2020 was the covid election. Special efforts were made to permit mail in voting. That is... you didn't have to go and queue up to vote. There you are sitting your a$$ at home, crawling up walls with not much to do. If anyone thinks that wouldn't dramatically alter the incentive to vote then I'll have the drug they're taking (I could do with some delusion in my life right now). There's no doubt there would have been vast numbers of people who normally disengage from the electoral process who sat there watching George Floyd riots, covid lockdowns, Trump talking about injecting bleach and said... you know what? For the effort of sending my vote by mail.. I'll give my view. It is beyond illogical to think that it had anything to do with fraud.

PS, it constantly amazes me that the side most willing to , and also the most caught, cheating is the one that cries fraud. This is gaslighting on a prodigious scale
But they have mail in voting ever since and those numbers have never since been replicated. We all know very well if it was the other way round with the republicans having that many extra votes that suddenly vanished, the dems would be going absolutely nuts.
 

Kieran

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Laughed my ass off at this.


This is actually an account. A stupid, hateful woman - accusing the winners of the election of all sorts of BS, and I think she buried this tweet under a sour avalanche of hateful bile, or else she deleted it. Not a person I’d like to live beside…
 
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Front242

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This is actually an account. A stupid, hateful woman - accusing the winners of the election of all sorts of BS, and I think she buried this tweet under a sour avalanche of hateful bile, or else she deleted it. Not a person I’d like to live beside…
Precisely why I was delighted for her loss. There was a lot more to the election than what she was harping on about that decided the outcome.
 
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Moxie

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Electoral Fraud does exist - and I think it's safe to say it exists to a certain extent in every election and in every country. The issue isn't so much about the fraud, but whether it was significant enough to change the outcome.

There is a good database on the Heritage website - https://electionfraud.heritage.org that links to specific court rulings regarding US Election fraud. It's not insignificant... and before certain people jump up and down crying about the messengers - the data is authentic and documented.

I worked an election here in Oz at the behest of a group putting independents forward. We actually witnessed some anomalies with boxes of ballot papers being moved in personal cars.... it caused much bleating about Election interference.... However, I know that it made no impact on the result. The usual lines of people who would vote LibLNP (similar to Cons/Tories) or Labour walking up to vote for whomever would govern them harder... It's a tiny dent in a well-oiled machine.

Having said that - as a guy who has worked with data and patterns my entire life - the data shifts in some of those swing states in 2020 didn't seem quite organic. I mentioned it at the time. Whether it affected the outcome is another matter. Without cast iron evidence to the contrary, you have to accept it as it is.
I looked at the Heritage link you provided, without following ever single case, but a reasonable sampling. If you watched the 60 Minutes video that Tented up it, everyone will admit that some voter fraud does happen. But not in numbers significant enough to change the outcome, which is your measure. Same with what is up on the Heritage site. There are several cases of people not getting more than one extra vote, which is, frankly, stupid. (Some guy in NH voted in person in NH, and absentee in another state, in 2 elections. And he got caught! Some guy in Tennessee was a convicted felon, and registered illegally. And he got caught, too.) In a few, or at least 2, there is actual nefariousness of manufacturing fake names and ballots, but in the worst I read it was 70 ballots, which is not enough to tip an election. And, it was caught.

As to 2020, it WAS a pretty odd year, but Trump presented some 62 suits and most were dismissed or he lost. I think they won one. Also, Fox News had to pay some $1.6B US for falsely promoting the notion that the election was stolen. This should be the "cast-iron" evidence you need.

I appreciate your anecdote about working the polls in Australia. I've worked the polls here, too, 4-5 times. In NY, and I think in most places, you have police officers at the polls. They generally carry the ballots away at the end of the day, in police cars, but it's all properly sealed, in any case. As you say, even if you saw an anomaly, you believed it's generally a well-oiled machine, as it is here.

Point being, i don't know about everywhere else, but voter fraud in this country is basically not enough to say so. The Republicans fund-raise on the notion, so it suits them. And Trump continues to air his grievances over 2020, because he hates to lose.

What Trump did that was decidedly undemocratic, was refuse to concede the election, and he did not attend the inauguration of his predecessor. (Leaving of the insurrection at the Capitol, which is no small thing, either.)
 

Moxie

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If this it’s true - that you’re not allowed to touch the ruler of Saudi Arabia - I give huge kudos to Trump here :clap::clap::clap:


Michelle Obama also touched the Queen of England, which caused some kerfuffle, but it was a kindly gesture, and Elizabeth was unfazed by it. Trump was a bit rude to her, though, walking in front of her.
 
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Moxie

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But they have mail in voting ever since and those numbers have never since been replicated. We all know very well if it was the other way round with the republicans having that many extra votes that suddenly vanished, the dems would be going absolutely nuts.
First of all, we've always had mail-in voting, in the modern era. If you are ill, home-bound, elderly, or merely if you're going to be away on election day, you have the option to ask for a mail-in ballot. This is about enfranchisement.

No votes "vanished." This had been run through the courts. Just because you like to keep repeating lies, it doesn't make them true.

As a side-note, the state of Oregon has been voting 100% mail-in since 2000. Washington State since 2011. Also, Colorado, Utah and Hawaii. Personally, I think there's something to be said for showing up in person, seeing your neighbors, and doing your bit, if you're able. But I have friends in Oregon who love their system, so who am I to say?
 
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