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Moxie

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Can't help feeling Republicans have made an error insisting that Hunter needed to be prosecuted. This conviction eviscerates the 'two tier justice system' narrative. It humanises the President as a father of a drug addict son. Meanwhile, I continue to anticipate that more Americans will start to feel what all of us in the financial system see as a strong economy. Ironically we're starting to see possible signs that things will turn for the worse but not before the phase of consumers starting to feel much much better.
I very much appreciate the optimism, but it seems people are too entrenched to see this. Any of it. Biden has had his life tragedies and struggles, including dealing with his son's past addictions and the ensuing disasters. People already know that. If they didn't care before, they don't care now. I know we're really talking about the uncommitted voters, and yes, some might see themselves in his plight. The addiction epidemic has left few unscathed.

I'm also not sure that it puts paid to the notion of the "two-tiered justice system," which Republicans have rejiggered to include Donald Trump. It should, but will it?

And again...the economy. Public opinion seems resistant to the notion that the economy is doing well. I can't explain it, but it's more of a problem than it should be.
 

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I very much appreciate the optimism, but it seems people are too entrenched to see this. Any of it. Biden has had his life tragedies and struggles, including dealing with his son's past addictions and the ensuing disasters. People already know that. If they didn't care before, they don't care now. I know we're really talking about the uncommitted voters, and yes, some might see themselves in his plight. The addiction epidemic has left few unscathed.

I'm also not sure that it puts paid to the notion of the "two-tiered justice system," which Republicans have rejiggered to include Donald Trump. It should, but will it?

And again...the economy. Public opinion seems resistant to the notion that the economy is doing well. I can't explain it, but it's more of a problem than it should be.
you sound pessimistic. I get it. It's terrifying. I still have a very high conviction that anti-Trump is under reported. To be honest the vibe I get is closer to how Trump himself was under-estimated 2016.

On another note, I've been looking at the complete collapse of my Conservative Party. This, along with the LDP in Japan, has been the most successful political organisation over the last century. I believe, that when Trump loses the collapse of the GOP will be more brutal than what I'm watching on this side of the pond. There's nothing within anymore, nothing that fits what MAGA wants. Not sure those Republicans on the hill have fully appreciated that yet, but they will soon
 

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Not sure I disagreed with a word. This is my concern for Dems in the longer term. Bigger issues in November though

 

Moxie

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you sound pessimistic. I get it. It's terrifying. I still have a very high conviction that anti-Trump is under reported. To be honest the vibe I get is closer to how Trump himself was under-estimated 2016.
I just don't share your optimism that people are going to "see the light" based on these recent outcomes. I do hope you're right on the underreporting of the anti-Trump factor. It has proven out in the last few election cycles, though mainly they didn't involve Trump running.

I still think the abortion issue will feature strongly, and IVF has basically been added to the mix. I don't know if you saw, but the Southern Baptist Convention came out against IVF recently. All of this is going to have a chilling effect on infertile couples, and they know that Trump panders to religious conservatives.

Also, there is a huge swath of people who seem to believe they were better off, economically, under Trump. Perception is a lot, for plenty of voters, especially casual ones, and they perceive Trump as stronger.
On another note, I've been looking at the complete collapse of my Conservative Party. This, along with the LDP in Japan, has been the most successful political organisation over the last century. I believe, that when Trump loses the collapse of the GOP will be more brutal than what I'm watching on this side of the pond. There's nothing within anymore, nothing that fits what MAGA wants. Not sure those Republicans on the hill have fully appreciated that yet, but they will soon
I'm curious to have you say more about the bolded above. How is it that "nothing fits with what MAGA wants? I thought they were winning over control of the party. The Hill is losing old-school Republicans. Have they not already realized that their party has been eviscerated and taken over by MAGA?
 
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Federberg

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I just don't share your optimism that people are going to "see the light" based on these recent outcomes. I do hope you're right on the underreporting of the anti-Trump factor. It has proven out in the last few election cycles, though mainly they didn't involve Trump running.

I still think the abortion issue will feature strongly, and IVF has basically been added to the mix. I don't know if you saw, but the Southern Baptist Convention came out against IVF recently. All of this is going to have a chilling effect on infertile couples, and they know that Trump panders to religious conservatives.

Also, there is a huge swath of people who seem to believe they were better off, economically, under Trump. Perception is a lot, for plenty of voters, especially casual ones, and they perceive Trump as stronger.
immigration and the economic issue are the most concerning. The thing politicians don't seem to get through their heads about inflation is that no one cares if the rate is now down to 2%. 5 years ago they were buy a Big Mac meal for $x, now they're having to spend $1.5x. That's the issue! And it's a problem.

I'm curious to have you say more about the bolded above. How is it that "nothing fits with what MAGA wants? I thought they were winning over control of the party. The Hill is losing old-school Republicans. Have they not already realized that their party has been eviscerated and taken over by MAGA?
It seems like these politicians are focused on the current election, and their calculation is that being as close to Trump is where they need to be. But what happens when Trump is gone. He is unique. There are loads of them who try to be like Trump. Look at DeSantis. It's not going to work. They have no guiding principle other than following their Fuhrer. This is actually a worse position than the Tories are facing. The Tories spent 2 decades agitating for Brexit and discarded everything that made them electable before this one issue. Once Brexit happened, and their lies about Brexit became evident, there's nothing left. They're not even competent at politics or governing anymore. And believe me, Tories in the past were formidable at understanding where the electorate was. Now those who've flourished are being exposed to a world where they've won and suddenly it's clear they don't know how to do anything other than agitate for Brexit. It's going to be far worse for the GOP. And I'm guessing they'll turn on Trump at some point when he's gone. It'll be quicker than you think. But no one will trust they still believe in the principles that made Republicans appealing. Small government, rule of law... it's all gone
 
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Federberg

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good grief Bill Maher pisses me off sometimes. He keeps harping about why didn't the DoJ prosecute Trump earlier. It's like he's not aware that Trump's entire legal strategy has been to delay delay and delay more. And SCOTUS has helped him along the way. I think he's so invested in being perceived as balanced that he's lost his way a little bit.
 

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Good grief, Bill Maher pisses me off sometimes. He keeps harping about why didn't the DoJ prosecute Trump earlier. It's like he's not aware that Trump's entire legal strategy has been to delay delay and delay more. And SCOTUS has helped him along the way. I think he's so invested in being perceived as balanced that he's lost his way a little bit.

Oh, Mahar's aware of all this stuff, but it still shouldn't have taken this long to prosecute Trump! IMO, the incompetence of all prosecutors rear their ugly, collective heads as someone like Trump not too bright has held off the consequences of his actions! This man has been fk'n up since the 70's and this is as close as we've gotten to making him pay for his crimes! He's paid fines, gotten chastized, & been humiliated, but he never cared! The only thing that will impress him is jail and we all know that ain't happening! They'll talk about his age, then all of a sudden maladies will justify leniency! I went thru the same change w/ Dennis Miller! The man hated and made fun of all Republicans & conservatives, but as he aged he softened his stance! IDK what's to become of us as The Supreme Court has been corrupted beyond recognition! As a senior, I can't see another wave of change as conservatives have lied onto the court and don't seem to care when it's pointed out how hypocritical they've been! We laud our justice system, but I started losing hope ages ago! :face-with-head-bandage: :angry-face: :astonished-face: :fearful-face: :yawningface:
 
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Moxie

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immigration and the economic issue are the most concerning. The thing politicians don't seem to get through their heads about inflation is that no one cares if the rate is now down to 2%. 5 years ago they were buy a Big Mac meal for $x, now they're having to spend $1.5x. That's the issue! And it's a problem.


It seems like these politicians are focused on the current election, and their calculation is that being as close to Trump is where they need to be. But what happens when Trump is gone. He is unique. There are loads of them who try to be like Trump. Look at DeSantis. It's not going to work. They have no guiding principle other than following their Fuhrer. This is actually a worse position than the Tories are facing. The Tories spent 2 decades agitating for Brexit and discarded everything that made them electable before this one issue. Once Brexit happened, and their lies about Brexit became evident, there's nothing left. They're not even competent at politics or governing anymore. And believe me, Tories in the past were formidable at understanding where the electorate was. Now those who've flourished are being exposed to a world where they've won and suddenly it's clear they don't know how to do anything other than agitate for Brexit. It's going to be far worse for the GOP. And I'm guessing they'll turn on Trump at some point when he's gone. It'll be quicker than you think. But no one will trust they still believe in the principles that made Republicans appealing. Small government, rule of law... it's all gone
I've said as much before about inflation before. People feel price and rent increases in their pocketbooks, particularly when they live closer to the bone, economically. But I also know older people who should be feeling some benefit to the better market, etc., yet they listen to Fox News, and will tell you that this economy is a "disaster." People also believe the old myth that Republicans are better at improving the economy, which is no longer true...not for a long time.

As to immigration, it's SO complicated, which is why many take the easy route on it. Sure, it's a problem for Biden. Illegal immigration has increased enormously on his watch. There are many reasons for that, and many have to do with global politics is more places that encourage people to leave home and look to the US. There is also a huge increase in families coming, when it used to be more individuals coming, which were easier to deal with. There are laws about how long children can be detained, etc. There are humanitarian concerns, where children are involved. People who take the issue superficially may like Trump's tough talk, however toothless.

As to the current state of the Republican party, I completely agree. I think we've discussed this, too. Trump is a cult of one, who has basically hollowed out the party to suit his ego. There are a few true believers, like MTG, Gaetz, Vance, maybe, but there are lots of sell-outs. Those who wouldn't sell-out have been forced out, or felt they were, and have declined to run again, or have just resigned. But MAGA is a thing. Trump fomented/released a lot of anger and resentment within the Id of the US population, and I don't see that dying away quickly once he's gone, which I hope is soon. Some of that evil is going to be hard to put back in the bottle. Most especially the lack of faith in our institutions that he's fostered. That's what makes me the saddest, and the most scared. Someday, we'll have the luxury of wondering what becomes of the Grand Old Party, once Trump is gone. But for now, he rides on the coattails of its old tropes, while at the same time mostly eschewing them. They don't even care that he used to be a Democrat.

He actually said this, to my point above, re: the economy, in a 2004 CNN interview: ""In many cases, I probably identify more as Democrat", explaining: "It just seems that the economy does better under the Democrats than the Republicans. Now, it shouldn't be that way. But if you go back, I mean it just seems that the economy does better under the Democrats...But certainly we had some very good economies under Democrats, as well as Republicans. But we've had some pretty bad disaster under the Republicans."

Now he just paints a dark picture of America, and sadly, a lot of people respond to it. He tells the crowds, "I am your Retribution." Scary stuff, if you ask me.
 
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good grief Bill Maher pisses me off sometimes. He keeps harping about why didn't the DoJ prosecute Trump earlier. It's like he's not aware that Trump's entire legal strategy has been to delay delay and delay more. And SCOTUS has helped him along the way. I think he's so invested in being perceived as balanced that he's lost his way a little bit.
I haven't watched his show much the past few years Yet he has been saying things that he wouldn't have a few years ago.. IMO
 

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But I also know older people who should be feeling some benefit to the better market, etc., yet they listen to Fox News, and will tell you that this economy is a "disaster." People also believe the old myth that Republicans are better at improving the economy, which is no longer true...not for a long time.
yes and that's reinforced by the media. For a while I was frustrated about that, but it occurs to me that Dem messaging is so appallingly bad they actually leave a vacuum that Republican's fill, and all the media does is parrot what effectively becomes the consensus view. Otherwise how was it possible that Trump the day after he got into the White House declared the economy wonderful, when before that he kept pounding away that it was a disaster.

But MAGA is a thing. Trump fomented/released a lot of anger and resentment within the Id of the US population, and I don't see that dying away quickly once he's gone, which I hope is soon. Some of that evil is going to be hard to put back in the bottle. Most especially the lack of faith in our institutions that he's fostered.
I agree that MAGA - populism - is a thing. But the thing about populism is that it's only effective when it's weaponised by a populist. Trust me, the likes of DeSantis, Hawley or Rubio can't step into Trump's shoes.
 
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Moxie

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I was listening to Jonathan Freedland today, on "On the Media," and he mentioned that old scandal of Joe Biden not crediting Neil Kinnock in 1987 for a quote he used to apply to himself. Something you brought up a while back, @Federberg. Freedland said it was pretty unfair, because he'd attributed it many other times when he'd used it before. He forgot once. The Dukakis campaign never let up on it, and Biden dropped out of the race. Much quainter times when failing to attribute a quote can sink a campaign. Now even a felony conviction can't...at least if you're Trump. Anyway, just to set the record a bit straighter.
 
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Federberg

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I was listening to Jonathan Freedland today, on "On the Media," and he mentioned that old scandal of Joe Biden not crediting Neil Kinnock in 1987 for a quote he used to apply to himself. Something you brought up a while back, @Federberg. Freedland said it was pretty unfair, because he'd attributed it many other times when he'd used it before. He forgot once. The Dukakis campaign never let up on it, and Biden dropped out of the race. Much quainter times when failing to attribute a quote can sink a campaign. Now even a felony conviction can't...at least if you're Trump. Anyway, just to set the record a bit straighter.
that's very interesting! I never thought it was that big of a deal to be honest. Biden gaffes are child's play in comparison to the filth we get from the orange turd
 
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Fiero425

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that's very interesting! I never thought it was that big of a deal to be honest. Biden gaffes are child's play in comparison to the filth we get from the orange turd

That's all "the right" have in their arsenal's accusing Biden of being doddering! I'll take him as a disembodied head in a jar over a psycho like Trump!
 

the AntiPusher

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that's very interesting! I never thought it was that big of a deal to be honest. Biden gaffes are child's play in comparison to the filth we get from the orange turd
It would be if the Democrats would have another leader rise up. It's been over 20 years since Obama first started to make his presence known at the Democratic presidential convention.
 
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the AntiPusher

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let's see if Wes Moore takes the step at the convention
Good choice. I have heard some good things about Wes. What the Democrats need is about 3-6 more Jasmine Crockett..(Miss B6). Jasmine represents the new aggressive Democrats that will aggressively challenge the right wing blowhards like Jim Jordan and the rest of Trump's goofy GOP cronies. Jasmine really have some great legislative platforms for protecting the civil liberties of those in underrepresented communities. In Essence, She is the ANTI-TRUMP
 
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Fiero425

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Good choice. I have heard some good things about Wes. What the Democrats need is about 3-6 more Jasmine Crockett..(Miss B6). Jasmine represents the new aggressive Democrats that will aggressively challenge the right wing blowhards like Jim Jordan and the rest of Trump's goofy GOP cronies. Jasmine really have some great legislative platforms for protecting the civil liberties of those in underrepresented communities. In Essence, She is the ANTI-TRUMP.

Who isn't? It's not like we should get a badge of honor for it! We've allowed this classless animal to "cow" the country w/ attacks! Every institution has been vilified & undermined by Trump! He's promised to fire a ton of veterans to appoint Trump-sters ready to take his lead of foresaking the Constitution! The Supreme Court is a lost cause already! Women & minorites will pay for being so flippant to allow such a person the power to change the course of history so arbitrarily! When Obama was elected, I thought the country had turned a corner! How wrong could I be? The man hadn't taken office before Republicans organized how they'd treat him w/ so much contempt, it would be unprecedented disrespect! They even used "liar" & the "N..word" at will! The kids weren't spared, catching it from the Repulbican leaders in Congress! "My kid doesn't get Secret Service escorts!" They couldn't look more ridiculous at the time, but they've outdone themselves over the years! Dems haven't really been in charge of the country's morality since Clinton! Hypocrites, liars, narcissists, & psychos have taken over the lead as conservatives trash laws & common decency! One little girl from Texas won't be enough! Unfortunately the Dems will have to wallow in the mud to get any respect from an electorate that's truly lost! They don't know WTF they want going back & forth w/ the political parties! :face-with-head-bandage: :astonished-face: :fearful-face: :yawningface:
 
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the AntiPusher

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Who isn't? It's not like we should get a badge of honor for it! We've allowed this classless animal to "cow" the country w/ attacks! Every institution has been vilified & undermined by Trump! He's promised to fire a ton of veterans to appoint Trump-sters ready to take his lead of foresaking the Constitution! The Supreme Court is a lost cause already! Women & minorites will pay for being so flippant to allow such a person the power to change the course of history so arbitrarily! When Obama was elected, I thought the country had turned a corner! How wrong could I be? The man hadn't taken office before Republicans organized how they'd treat him w/ so much contempt, it would be unprecedented disrespect! They even used "liar" & the "N..word" at will! The kids weren't spared, catching it from the Repulbican leaders in Congress! "My kid doesn't get Secret Service escorts!" They couldn't look more ridiculous at the time, but they've outdone themselves over the years! Dems haven't really been in charge of the country's morality since Clinton! Hypocrites, liars, narcissists, & psychos have taken over the lead as conservatives trash laws & common decency! One little girl from Texas won't be enough! Unfortunately the Dems will have to wallow in the mud to get any respect from an electorate that's truly lost! They don't know WTF they want going back & forth w/ the political parties! :face-with-head-bandage: :astonished-face: :fearful-face: :yawningface:
I said 3-6 more Jasmine Crochett (s) not just her. Jasmine, just like AOC has shown that the new generation of Democrats ..well the women are coming out at the GOP instead of being politically correct. I think during the time of President Obama, Barrack narrative was to stand on Business not wasting time to be the angry black man. If you thought a country where the majority is over 60 percent Caucasian voters were going to turn this country to center of diversity than my friend you haven't been paying attention. Trump gave the majority what they WANTED, a voice that championed their white privilege perseveration by any means necessary.
 
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