US Politics Thread

[shawnbm]

^ don't sugarcoat it for us.

 

[Federberg]

This inhumane pos this should never be elected and should not be allowed in politics. Disgusting creature who loves seeing innocent mostly women and children being killed. And she thinks she's one of the good guys..

Strap her to a warhead and fire her out to sea along with all the other Zionist butchering scum. Good riddance.

Former Republican presidential candidate pictured writing ‘finish them’ on Israeli shell

The photograph was posted by a member of the Israeli parliament and former ambassador to the UN, who was accompanying Nikki Haley.

www.thejournal.ie

if she was directing that strictly to Hamas then it's hard to argue with the sentiment. I get the feeling that the Israeli right wing are hoping to remove ALL Palestinians from those territories. I'm not sure that'll be tenable for the rest of the world. What a conundrum!

 

[shawnbm]

^ wrapped within an enigma

 

[Front242]

if she was directing that strictly to Hamas then it's hard to argue with the sentiment. I get the feeling that the Israeli right wing are hoping to remove ALL Palestinians from those territories. I'm not sure that'll be tenable for the rest of the world. What a conundrum!

Trust me, if the world wasn't watching Israel and the US would have leveled all of Palestine and ethnically cleansed the lot of them. It's absolutely disgusting what they've done so far regardless but we can only imagine what they'd do if they could get away with it. They have basically so far for everything they've done in any case. Most of the dead in Gaza were women and children not Hamas. The ratio of death not just from this current conflict but historically has always been massively disproportionate with Israel the side inflicting most of the killing. Haley is too dumb to realize the warhead should be dropped on Netanyahu and all his scum followers (in every country) and not innocent women and children. A decent person would be campaigning for peace and not writing "finish them" on a warhead. She is an evil, disgusting creature. Hamas would never have attacked Israel if they hadn't been illegally occupying their land and killing their people for over 75 years.

 

[Federberg]

Trust me, if the world wasn't watching Israel and the US would have leveled all of Palestine and ethnically cleansed the lot of them. It's absolutely disgusting what they've done so far regardless but we can only imagine what they'd do if they could get away with it. They have basically so far for everything they've done in any case. Most of the dead in Gaza were women and children not Hamas. The ratio of death not just from this current conflict but historically has always been massively disproportionate with Israel the side inflicting most of the killing. Haley is too dumb to realize the warhead should be dropped on Netanyahu and all his scum followers (in every country) and not innocent women and children. A decent person would be campaigning for peace and not writing "finish them" on a warhead. She is an evil, disgusting creature. Hamas would never have attacked Israel if they hadn't been illegally occupying their land and killing their people for over 75 years.

hmmm... are you making excuses for a terrorist organisation? There are a number of truths that make this whole thing complicated...

1/ There has never been a country called Palestine. The collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WW1 left a largely disorganised collection of ethnic groups that over time claimed land and formed countries and governments, but the process was by no means complete when the British (largely out of guilt over the treatment of Jews around Europe in WW2) assisted with the relocation and formation of the nation state of Israel. While we can say that those we now call Palestinians were displaced from lands they previously occupied, it's important to recognise that there were also substantial Jewish and Christian communities in the same area

2/ At least two times in the last 50years Palestinians have had the opportunity to sign treaties that would have effectively created a two state solution. The last time Arafat backed off at the last moment because groups like Hamas would almost certainly have killed him

3/ the October 7th attack was a terrorist action, no less than 9/11 in the US. There is simply no way that a military response wasn't going to happen. Anyone blaming the Israelis for that is smoking something I would like to try

4/ The political balance in Israel has forever changed since the fall of the Berlin Wall. All those European Jews who were subjected to horrific anti-semitism in the old Soviet Union aren't going anywhere. The left in Israel, who were always more likely to support a peace plan, will never have power again. All those immigrant Jews want land, the pressure will continue to be to grab Palestinian land and never give it back.

5/ All the governments of the neighbouring Arab states loathe the Palestinians. For the populations in those countries the equation is simpler, they'll not want to see fellow muslims mistreated by Israelis. But don't kid yourself, if there was a way for those governments to look away, they would! It would be far more lucrative for them to have trading relationships with Israel.

 

[Federberg]

GUILTY!!!

 

[Moxie]

GUILTY!!!

I'm stunned, TBH. Pundits thought if the jury came back relatively quickly, it would be good news for the defense. For those voters out there who have said that if Trump were convicted of a felony, that could be a game changer for them, I wonder if they'll still feel that way now.

 

[shawnbm]

hmmm... are you making excuses for a terrorist organisation? There are a number of truths that make this whole thing complicated...

1/ There has never been a country called Palestine. The collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WW1 left a largely disorganised collection of ethnic groups that over time claimed land and formed countries and governments, but the process was by no means complete when the British (largely out of guilt over the treatment of Jews around Europe in WW2) assisted with the relocation and formation of the nation state of Israel. While we can say that those we now call Palestinians were displaced from lands they previously occupied, it's important to recognise that there were also substantial Jewish and Christian communities in the same area

2/ At least two times in the last 50years Palestinians have had the opportunity to sign treaties that would have effectively created a two state solution. The last time Arafat backed off at the last moment because groups like Hamas would almost certainly have killed him

3/ the October 7th attack was a terrorist action, no less than 9/11 in the US. There is simply no way that a military response wasn't going to happen. Anyone blaming the Israelis for that is smoking something I would like to try

4/ The political balance in Israel has forever changed since the fall of the Berlin Wall. All those European Jews who were subjected to horrific anti-semitism in the old Soviet Union aren't going anywhere. The left in Israel, who were always more likely to support a peace plan, will never have power again. All those immigrant Jews want land, the pressure will continue to be to grab Palestinian land and never give it back.

5/ All the governments of the neighbouring Arab states loathe the Palestinians. For the populations in those countries the equation is simpler, they'll not want to see fellow muslims mistreated by Israelis. But don't kid yourself, if there was a way for those governments to look away, they would! It would be far more lucrative for them to have trading relationships with Israel.

Number 2 above is especially key, as well as number 3. Folks don't appreciate the degree of mistrust between Sunni and Shia and outright hatred between the two. Hamas is backed by Iran, which alone makes it an outlier for other Arab nations trying to coexist with Israel; i.e., Egypt, Jordan and even the Saudi kingdom.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I'm stunned, TBH. Pundits thought if the jury came back relatively quickly, it would be good news for the defense. For those voters out there who have said that if Trump were convicted of a felony, that could be a game changer for them, I wonder if they'll still feel that way now.

Most Impressive!

 

[Front242]

hmmm... are you making excuses for a terrorist organisation? There are a number of truths that make this whole thing complicated...

1/ There has never been a country called Palestine. The collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WW1 left a largely disorganised collection of ethnic groups that over time claimed land and formed countries and governments, but the process was by no means complete when the British (largely out of guilt over the treatment of Jews around Europe in WW2) assisted with the relocation and formation of the nation state of Israel. While we can say that those we now call Palestinians were displaced from lands they previously occupied, it's important to recognise that there were also substantial Jewish and Christian communities in the same area

2/ At least two times in the last 50years Palestinians have had the opportunity to sign treaties that would have effectively created a two state solution. The last time Arafat backed off at the last moment because groups like Hamas would almost certainly have killed him

3/ the October 7th attack was a terrorist action, no less than 9/11 in the US. There is simply no way that a military response wasn't going to happen. Anyone blaming the Israelis for that is smoking something I would like to try

4/ The political balance in Israel has forever changed since the fall of the Berlin Wall. All those European Jews who were subjected to horrific anti-semitism in the old Soviet Union aren't going anywhere. The left in Israel, who were always more likely to support a peace plan, will never have power again. All those immigrant Jews want land, the pressure will continue to be to grab Palestinian land and never give it back.

5/ All the governments of the neighbouring Arab states loathe the Palestinians. For the populations in those countries the equation is simpler, they'll not want to see fellow muslims mistreated by Israelis. But don't kid yourself, if there was a way for those governments to look away, they would! It would be far more lucrative for them to have trading relationships with Israel.

No one is making excuses for a terrorist organization. The world has to realize, however, that Israel are a terrorist nation. Many have seen the light and I can see why those supporting Israel do it out of fear the rabbis holding the banking system together will withdraw their funds but the whole thing is disgusting. If they support Israel for any other reason, they need their heads examined.

Also, the IDF mowed down many of their own people on that October 7th attack 'cos the trigger happy clowns didn't bother to distinguish between Hamas and their own and just kept shooting. This says a lot about them. It's hardly self defense now is it. Of course the Israelis were going to retaliate but they went too far a long, long time ago and this is just sick and barbaric at this stage and has been for months.

 

[Moxie]

Interesting that a convicted felon can run for President, but that, in many states, convicted felons can't vote.

 

[Fiero425]

Interesting that a convicted felon can run for President, but that, in many states, convicted felons can't vote.

They may be wrong as I've surfed around the news, but it appears Trump will still be able to vote if he isn't sentenced to jail! House arrest or given probation, he can still vote to his heart's content! I couldn't care less about this a-#ole, my problem is w/ the populous that find nothing wrong w/ this guy who's skated & gotten away w/ being a criminal all his life! I'm most disgusted by that! I'll never forgive women & minorities that support the man when he has such bigotry & loathing for them as he asks for their vote!

 

[Federberg]

They may be wrong as I've surfed around the news, but it appears Trump will still be able to vote if he isn't sentenced to jail! House arrest or given probation, he can still vote to his heart's content! I couldn't care less about this a-#ole, my problem is w/ the populous that find nothing wrong w/ this guy who's skated & gotten away w/ being a criminal all his life! I'm most disgusted by that! I'll never forgive women & minorities that support the man when he has such bigotry & loathing for them as he asks for their vote!

from what I hear convictions for this crime in NY State typically get custodial sentence, and because this particular case is at the more egregious end of the spectrum it would be a massive surprise if a custodial sentence isn't given. Doesn't mean he's going to jail any time soon. He'll be able to appeal

 

[Federberg]

No one is making excuses for a terrorist organization. The world has to realize, however, that Israel are a terrorist nation. Many have seen the light and I can see why those supporting Israel do it out of fear the rabbis holding the banking system together will withdraw their funds but the whole thing is disgusting. If they support Israel for any other reason, they need their heads examined.

Also, the IDF mowed down many of their own people on that October 7th attack 'cos the trigger happy clowns didn't bother to distinguish between Hamas and their own and just kept shooting. This says a lot about them. It's hardly self defense now is it. Of course the Israelis were going to retaliate but they went too far a long, long time ago and this is just sick and barbaric at this stage and has been for months.

not sure how Israel is any more a terrorist nation than any other... I find it funny that you're up in arms about what Israel is doing, but you don't bring the same energy to the intentional genocidal actions of the Russians. They're literally trying to wipe Ukraine's economy, infrastructure and culture from the Earth

 

[Federberg]

from what I hear convictions for this crime in NY State typically get custodial sentence, and because this particular case is at the more egregious end of the spectrum it would be a massive surprise if a custodial sentence isn't given. Doesn't mean he's going to jail any time soon. He'll be able to appeal

EDIT... now I'm looking at clips on CNN where they say that it's typically non-custodial.. confused!

 

[Moxie]

EDIT... now I'm looking at clips on CNN where they say that it's typically non-custodial.. confused!

I haven't heard anyone who had a guess because it could be anywhere from probation, to 4 years in prison. It's a white collar crime. He'll be assigned a parole officer, who will interview him, and his associates, (to determine what kind of people he hangs out with) and make a recommendation on the sentence, too. Even parole is at least an inconvenience, particularly for someone who is trying to run a presidential campaign. This I don't think he can avoid, even as he appeals, since he's been convicted. And I think there are also fines coming.

 

[shawnbm]

Fines and probation--I don't see jail time. Recall this is a misdemeanor that the DOJ and former New York prosecutor declined to bring. Bragg came in and announced he would bring charges and added this thing to turn a misdemeanor into a felony. I don't see jail time on a largely politically motivated charge.

 

[Moxie]

Fines and probation--I don't see jail time. Recall this is a misdemeanor that the DOJ and former New York prosecutor declined to bring. Bragg came in and announced he would bring charges and added this thing to turn a misdemeanor into a felony. I don't see jail time on a largely politically motivated charge.

While I agree with you, about fines and probation. However, what Bragg brought was not a "new thing." Existing law. And it's been tried and convicted this way before, though not often. It's the underlying motivation for the crime which makes it a felony...buying the suppression of information from the voting public, a federal crime, and then fiddling the books to disguise the money, (misdemeanor, elevated by the previous.)

 

[Front242]

not sure how Israel is any more a terrorist nation than any other... I find it funny that you're up in arms about what Israel is doing, but you don't bring the same energy to the intentional genocidal actions of the Russians. They're literally trying to wipe Ukraine's economy, infrastructure and culture from the Earth

Because the amount of innocent ppl killed in Gaza is proportionately infinitely worse. Ukraine and the west were warned to stop expanding NATO around Russia and wouldn't listen. Ukraine were told to reject the peace deal by Boris Johnson as Biden's puppet. They brought this on themselves. Zelenskyy also asked for a war on an interview with Trump. That's not genocide in Ukraine.

 

[the AntiPusher]

These are class E felonies in the state of NY. Trump is a first time offender and will NOT be sentence to jail time for his "white collar" crime. He will loose his right to vote in the state of Florida and cannot carry a firearm but he still has the US Secret service detailing him everywhere he goes. He CAN'T pardon himself because these are felonies at the state level.

The charges in Georgia where he is on trial for trying to reverse the election results and attacking democracy is a higher level class charge.