US Politics Thread

shawnbm

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There was talk about packing the court during Roosevelt's era and at other times as well. People are always wanting to tinker with the Supreme Court of the United States of America and these ideas float around now and then, but get shot down eventually when people think on this. I think lifetime appointment is the way to go.Two limited to two terms or 18 years is asking for even more politicization of the highest court. Then it will be, seesaw back and forth on various issues and the weight some justices are by their very nature, you will have more and more decisions that will if set people like the recent decision that role as back to abortion being a states right issue rather than something that can be imposed by the High Court of the land by reading the right to abortion into the Constitution under the alleged penumbra of an implicit rather than express, right to privacy under the United States Constitution. Lord knows that decision because a lot of chaos and now we are back to where it was before. If all the states decide they want to put the right to abortion into their constitutions and laws, then so be it.

Life expectancy is not that drastically different than it was in the 1800s, perhaps another 10 years or so, but that is not the point. As the Constitution currently reads, this is the way it is. I have no problem with people doing all sorts of things, including inserting into the Federal Constitution a right to privacy explicitly. But the Constitution was meant to be difficult to amend and requires that an overwhelming majority of people voting in the respective states, thereby making it an overwhelming majority of states, have to agree that this major document should be amended in some significant way. What the United States Constitution never envisioned were activist Justices who would read into and read beyond what is in the United States Constitution to craft things that they personally want or to reflect the political winds of the day. That is the issue. I live in a state where there are amendments proposed every single election going back to case. Thankfully, nowhere near the number of constitutional amendments brought up have been approved, but, to my way of thinking, far too many of them still have passed. That being said, this is our system and this is how we live with it. The citizenry of a certain political bent seem loathe to go out and try to amend the Federal Constitution to reflect various positions. Instead, they prefer to have certain justices barred from being on the court and propose a litmus test on certain key issues so they can hope a group of them will do their bidding by reading things into the document. This was not the case 60 years ago, or at least not to the extent it eventually became in the 1960s, 1970s and early 1980s. As long as someone had a decent judicial background for they came from academia, they sailed through the nomination process until we had Sen. Kennedy his baloney with Bork. We have brought this on ourselves unfortunately.
 

Federberg

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Errr.. I beg to differ…Life expectancy has drastically improved. And no doubt it would be even more different at the time of the framers

 

Moxie

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Well, now that is interesting. I assume you are not naïve enough to think that the Justices of the highest federal court of the land are different in terms of personality, political beliefs and whatnot than the ones from 60 years ago, 80 years ago, etc. Clearly, the seven or eight justices appointed by FDR, the great liberal Pres. of the 20th century, had far-reaching impacts right through the 1960s and 1970s. Thurgood Marshall, Hugo Black, William O. Douglas and others, as well as those that followed in their footsteps like William Brennan and Earl Warren, the Chief Justice himself. Any objection to the decisions that they came down with back in the day? (The Burger Court was a little more mixed). The exact same thing you are saying could have been used against them and maybe certain things would not have come to pass. I do not think the highest court in the land should change on a whim depending upon who wins the White House coupled with whoever happens to be in the halls of Congress at that time--too western European for me. I think it should be a lifetime appointment. Everything changed here with Sen. Edward Kennedy and his minions attacking Judge Robert Bork in the 1980s and made everything worse and this discussion possible. It was an intentional act by Sen. Kennedy to do whatever he need to do to stop that particular jurors from being appointed to the court and ever since then we have had this circus surrounding only those who do not fit the mold that the press and, let's face it, the liberals of this nation want on the highest court. Nobody challenged Justices Brownl, Kagan, Sotomayor or other liberal justices before them, including Justice Ginsburg, like judge Bork, Justices Cavanaugh, Alito and Thomas or, for that matter, due to her apparent Catholic roots, Justice Barrett. It has never been like that for the liberal justices or the ones who are less inclined to a strict interpretation or textual interpretation of the United States Constitution. So, be careful what you wish for
I didn't say that I was only talking about justices now. I am fully aware that some justices, and some courts have been "liberal" and some "conservative." I'm not sure what you think I "wished" for. Bork was a problematic nominee. He had stated in his earlier hearing (for AG or something) that he thought Southern states had to right to impose a "poll tax." You know what that means.
 

Moxie

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Errr.. I beg to differ…Life expectancy has drastically improved. And no doubt it would be even more different at the time of the framers

Here is a list of all Supreme Court justices which includes the length of their terms. There were a few who served for 30 years, even in the 1800s, but look at the length of terms since the mid-1960s...nearly all of them are very long. There's a marked difference.


 
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shawnbm

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Did not realize LE has increased that much! Yes, it does seem some are staying longer but then that also depends on their age when nominated. Definitely trending younger in the last thirty years it seems. I do not think you wished for anything, Moxie. Hasta la pasta everyone and happy Friday!
 
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Moxie

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There was talk about packing the court during Roosevelt's era and at other times as well. People are always wanting to tinker with the Supreme Court of the United States of America and these ideas float around now and then, but get shot down eventually when people think on this. I think lifetime appointment is the way to go.Two limited to two terms or 18 years is asking for even more politicization of the highest court. Then it will be, seesaw back and forth on various issues and the weight some justices are by their very nature, you will have more and more decisions that will if set people like the recent decision that role as back to abortion being a states right issue rather than something that can be imposed by the High Court of the land by reading the right to abortion into the Constitution under the alleged penumbra of an implicit rather than express, right to privacy under the United States Constitution. Lord knows that decision because a lot of chaos and now we are back to where it was before. If all the states decide they want to put the right to abortion into their constitutions and laws, then so be it.

Life expectancy is not that drastically different than it was in the 1800s, perhaps another 10 years or so, but that is not the point. As the Constitution currently reads, this is the way it is. I have no problem with people doing all sorts of things, including inserting into the Federal Constitution a right to privacy explicitly. But the Constitution was meant to be difficult to amend and requires that an overwhelming majority of people voting in the respective states, thereby making it an overwhelming majority of states, have to agree that this major document should be amended in some significant way. What the United States Constitution never envisioned were activist Justices who would read into and read beyond what is in the United States Constitution to craft things that they personally want or to reflect the political winds of the day. That is the issue. I live in a state where there are amendments proposed every single election going back to case. Thankfully, nowhere near the number of constitutional amendments brought up have been approved, but, to my way of thinking, far too many of them still have passed. That being said, this is our system and this is how we live with it. The citizenry of a certain political bent seem loathe to go out and try to amend the Federal Constitution to reflect various positions. Instead, they prefer to have certain justices barred from being on the court and propose a litmus test on certain key issues so they can hope a group of them will do their bidding by reading things into the document. This was not the case 60 years ago, or at least not to the extent it eventually became in the 1960s, 1970s and early 1980s. As long as someone had a decent judicial background for they came from academia, they sailed through the nomination process until we had Sen. Kennedy his baloney with Bork. We have brought this on ourselves unfortunately.
I wonder if a limited term for US Supreme Court justices could make them somewhat less political, actually. It might be somewhat less "precious" (which I mean rather in the LOTR-way, too,) I'd like to say that it couldn't make things ever more politicized than they already are, but here, I'll even say it before you do: I should be careful what I wish for. :face-with-tears-of-joy:

There are reasons that the Supreme Court nominations have been so contentious since the 60s, and you know what they are...basically, since things like Voting Rights Act, the civil rights, women's and gay rights movements, and Roe v. Wade. It's the culture wars. Back in the day, when the world and politics were run by rich white guys exclusively, SC nominees got disqualified for things like aversion to war when we were on the brink of war (the Spanish-American one, I think,) and ties too close to the railroad industry. That kinda stuff. Or they withdrew themselves for obvious, or maybe not so obvious scandals. Back when things were handled in "smoke-filled rooms," and not on the Senate floor.

I don't necessarily agree with your notion of "activist judges" who "craft things as they personally want to." I doubt it's that personal. I believe that The US Constitution is both a sturdy and a flexible document. There was a lot left to interpretation in there. It's also antiquated, in its way. (Example: "...all men are created equal." Well, that excluded women, and ignored the tacit exclusion of non-white men.) So we amend it, but that's not easy. We also interpret and re-interpret it. Which creates precedent. As a system, it has worked well, or until lately.

You bring up the right to privacy. I am no Constitutional scholar. SCOTUS has ruled that there is a right to privacy written in, and I think Roe v Wade was partially decided on that. (Side question: If there is HIPAA, which provides for the privacy of a person's healthcare information, how come abortion seems to be excluded in some states? That seems wrong.) Remember also that homosexual acts were illegal for many years, and made legal due to right to privacy. I think we all agree that nobody wants the government in their bedroom.

I think the conversation about how to hold SCOTUS accountable, and if they should have limited terms is interesting. I'm not hammering on you, just talking it through.
 

Federberg

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sounds like there might be reasonable doubt in the hush money case?? Can't believe how sloppy the prosecution has been with the Cohen testimony
 

shawnbm

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Federberg--have you been there watching the testimony?
 

Federberg

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Federberg--have you been there watching the testimony?
not really. Just been keeping an eye on social media. Hearing that they've impeached Cohen's credibility. Apparently he was stealing from Trump? It'll be a close thing as his substantive testimony is largely corroborated. But if the jury cares about his credibility it might be enough for reasonable doubt?
 

Moxie

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^And quite frankly what kind of a real man blames his wife for this?? If she put the flag up, as a SCJ he should have taken it down within minutes. I find it hard to believe that he wasn't supporting her activity if it stayed up for 2 freaking weeks? He's either a weak man or a liar. Neither conclusion is suitable for a SCJ
The Menedez corruption trial is probably too local for your radar, but just to let you know: he's also blaming his wife. Apparently, this is a new trope. I picked the NY Post specifically, since they're right-wing:

 

Federberg

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The Menedez corruption trial is probably too local for your radar, but just to let you know: he's also blaming his wife. Apparently, this is a new trope. I picked the NY Post specifically, since they're right-wing:

lol! Doesn’t the right wing media call these types of guys cucks?
 

shawnbm

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It's not televised.
Yes, I know that; so, I was wondering if he lives in NYC and was going there to watch it live. At any rate, Cohen is a known commodity--a liar and a fraud. He has been disbarred, which is actually pretty hard to do. But, he is the lynchpin and they knew going in about this but felt that the jury would forgive him and convict Trump. They are taking the gamble.
 

Federberg

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Yes, I know that; so, I was wondering if he lives in NYC and was going there to watch it live. At any rate, Cohen is a known commodity--a liar and a fraud. He has been disbarred, which is actually pretty hard to do. But, he is the lynchpin and they knew going in about this but felt that the jury would forgive him and convict Trump. They are taking the gamble.
yes and my point is that they seem to have failed to mitigate some of the problematic stuff. It might not matter but my issue is that if they had already brought this stuff out and presented a narrative about why it doesn't matter it's a darn sight better than creating gotcha moments in favour of the defence which might sway the jury into thinking that it degrades the case against Trump
 

shawnbm

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Trump defense team has already rested so there will be no more paper evidence or testimony from the witness stand. The President did not testify. Defense must feel strongly there is no case beyond and to the exclusion of any reasonable doubt. Closing arguments are next week.
 

Federberg

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Trump defense team has already rested so there will be no more paper evidence or testimony from the witness stand. The President did not testify. Defense must feel strongly there is no case beyond and to the exclusion of any reasonable doubt. Closing arguments are next week.
very very risky!
 

Moxie

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Trump defense team has already rested so there will be no more paper evidence or testimony from the witness stand. The President did not testify. Defense must feel strongly there is no case beyond and to the exclusion of any reasonable doubt. Closing arguments are next week.
very very risky!
Defendants often do not take the stand. However, I could see why there's a good argument for having him testify. Whatever I think of the man, I can imagine that he has a great deal of personal charisma. OTOH, Trump is a loose cannon, and it seems quite clear that his attorneys can't reign him in. There is a risk he would perjure himself. Or implicate himself.
 

Front242

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This inhumane pos this should never be elected and should not be allowed in politics. Disgusting creature who loves seeing innocent mostly women and children being killed. And she thinks she's one of the good guys..

Strap her to a warhead and fire her out to sea along with all the other Zionist butchering scum. Good riddance.

 
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