US Politics Thread

[Kieran]

I think people have gone past being shocked by politicians having sex. The third party candidate is a good development, though I wonder why RFK Jr isn’t competing against Biden in primaries. Trump and Bernie were also third party candidates in a way, though they each snuck under the tent flaps of the main parties.

RFK might appeal more to Trump supporters, but they won’t vote for him if he gets in the way. Democrats might disdain him over his vaccine views, but you never know. You have a president now who most likely has forgotten what a woman is…

 

[tented]

I think people have gone past being shocked by politicians having sex.

As much as I wish this were true, it’s not. At least not completely. It’s the older generations who particularly still take note of these things, and let them affect their views of people. I’ve seen evidence of this first-hand several times in the past few years alone.

 

[tented]

I think a lot of us/most of us? in the US have family members and friends who subscribe to the party other than ours, or in many nuanced ways, don't agree with us, politically. So we, many of us, don't see that having a different political bent makes a person evil. I know there's a recent inclination that way, but hear me out.

Well, I don’t need to hear you out, because I said the same things: people more or less want the same things, have shared/common views, don‘t reflexively hate someone who’s different, don’t argue politics simply because you’re in the presence of someone from the other party, etc.

It’s good to find out you took such views and made certain efforts during the Cold War — a time which certainly needed that.

What have you done in the last few years in terms of talking to Republicans, trying to understand their views, and so on, as I stated I’ve been doing? I’d be interested to learn about that.

 

[Federberg]

Well, I don’t need to hear you out, because I said the same things: people more or less want the same things, have shared/common views, don‘t reflexively hate someone who’s different, don’t argue politics simply because you’re in the presence of someone from the other party, etc.

It’s good to find out you took such views and made certain efforts during the Cold War — a time which certainly needed that.

What have you done in the last few years in terms of talking to Republicans, trying to understand their views, and so on, as I stated I’ve been doing? I’d be interested to learn about that.

the problem isn't hating the other side, it's feeling morally superior to the other side and therefore not even pausing to listen to their views. The moral superiority is so ingrained it permits no self reflection or willingness to analyse. It's sad and frustrating!

 

[Front242]

 

[Kieran]

Holy shit, is this really real?

 

[Moxie]

I think people have gone past being shocked by politicians having sex. The third party candidate is a good development, though I wonder why RFK Jr isn’t competing against Biden in primaries. Trump and Bernie were also third party candidates in a way, though they each snuck under the tent flaps of the main parties.

RFK might appeal more to Trump supporters, but they won’t vote for him if he gets in the way. Democrats might disdain him over his vaccine views, but you never know. You have a president now who most likely has forgotten what a woman is…

It seems to be a calculation. He announced as a Democrat, and then went independent when it became pretty clear that he was polling rather better with Republicans, so, while he'd get the exposure if he ran as a Democrat, it would "taint" him for Republicans in the general election, is what seems to be the thinking. Worth noting is that the Republicans complained loudly when he went independent, and the Democrats said nothing at all.

Trump supporters won't vote for him, anyway. He's running as an alternative for all of those people who seem to want neither Trump nor Biden.

 

[Front242]

Holy shit, is this really real?

I believe so. Anyone who doesn't think he’s senile or in massive cognitive decline is in denial.

 

[Kieran]

I believe so. Anyone who doesn't think he’s senile or in massive cognitive decline is in denial.

Shocking, but what can they do? They can hardly replace him now…

 

[Moxie]

What have you done in the last few years in terms of talking to Republicans, trying to understand their views, and so on, as I stated I’ve been doing? I’d be interested to learn about that.

One of my brothers is a Republican, so there's that. He usually watches Fox and CNN, though more Fox, and we watch together when I visit, which is often. It can get heated, but we always bring it back down. And we do talk politics. I will say that he's been less inspired by the Republicans in power, given a lot of their reactions (or lack thereof) to the Jan. 6th attack on the Capitol, and also the continued insistence that the election was not legitimate.

Obviously, living in NYC and working in the film business, I'm not really surrounded by Republicans in my daily life, but I do have a lot of old friends, and a whole branch of my family who are Republicans, and some evangelicals (family) who range from conservative to very conservative. I discuss politics with some of them. I have one great friend with whom one of the foundations of our friendship is that we love discussing politics together, and she fully liked and backed Trump. There have always been things we've disagreed on, and more so in the past few years, but we always listen to each other's side, with respect and every attempt at understanding where it's coming from.

That's a sample. But I don't live in the bubble that maybe you guys think I do in terms of opinions that are different from mine, and those are coming from people that I love and respect...people that I definitely can't feel "morally superior" to.

 

[Moxie]

Shocking, but what can they do? They can hardly replace him now…

Let me ask you what bothered you about that clip? The fact that Biden had a stutter all of his life, that he still struggles with? It's not hard to figure out where his point was going, about conspiracy theories against vaccines, comparing them to other conspiracy theories. And I should mention that "interlocutors" is actually a word, even if the guy who posted the video doesn't know it.

That Town Hall was from July 2021, 6 months after Biden's inauguration. You can read the transcript here, from the White House website, if you care to:

Remarks by President Biden in a CNN Town Hall with Don Lemon | The White House

Mount St. Joseph UniversityCincinnati, Ohio (July 21, 2021) 8:01 P.M. EDT THE PRESIDENT: How you doing, pal? Good to

www.whitehouse.gov

I'm sure you've heard any number of "word salad" clips of Trump speaking. I could be wrong, but I think @tented posted this quip? Anyway, it's apt: That Trump talks like a 5-year-old recounting a dream he had two weeks ago.

Anyway, of course there is something to be done, should the President become in any way incapacitated while in office. It's in the 25th Amendment to the Constitution, which we know about because people became worried that Trump was mentally unfit to be president. We also know about it because it is used for the temporary transfer of powers should the President have to go under anesthesia for a medical procedure, for example. The power goes to the Vice President as Acting President. That's why we have a Vice President. Next in line is Speaker of the House.

 

[Kieran]

Let me ask you what bothered you about that clip? The fact that Biden had a stutter all of his life, that he still struggles with? It's not hard to figure out where his point was going, about conspiracy theories against vaccines, comparing them to other conspiracy theories. And I should mention that "interlocutors" is actually a word, even if the guy who posted the video doesn't know it.

That Town Hall was from July 2021, 6 months after Biden's inauguration. You can read the transcript here, from the White House website, if you care to:

Remarks by President Biden in a CNN Town Hall with Don Lemon | The White House

Mount St. Joseph UniversityCincinnati, Ohio (July 21, 2021) 8:01 P.M. EDT THE PRESIDENT: How you doing, pal? Good to

www.whitehouse.gov

I'm sure you've heard any number of "word salad" clips of Trump speaking. I could be wrong, but I think @tented posted this quip? Anyway, it's apt: That Trump talks like a 5-year-old recounting a dream he had two weeks ago.

Anyway, of course there is something to be done, should the President become in any way incapacitated while in office. It's in the 25th Amendment to the Constitution, which we know about because people became worried that Trump was mentally unfit to be president. We also know about it because it is used for the temporary transfer of powers should the President have to go under anesthesia for a medical procedure, for example. The power goes to the Vice President as Acting President. That's why we have a Vice President. Next in line is Speaker of the House.

I somehow knew you’d turn it back to Trump. And that you’d act like Biden doesn’t look dazed and confused a lot. Thanks for the English lesson on what is and isn’t a word. I think the guy who made the video knew that word actually, that’s why he took the trouble to spell out Biden’s attempt at it.

You don’t lose face if you actually criticise the Democrats sometimes, you know? It’s a political virtue if we’re honest about our own failings, and I’m sure you know they have failings..

 

[Front242]

Shocking, but what can they do? They can hardly replace him now…

There's a lot of talk that Obama is still calling the shots. Who knows. Biden sure as hell isn't anyway.

 

[Moxie]

I somehow knew you’d turn it back to Trump. And that you’d act like Biden doesn’t look dazed and confused a lot. Thanks for the English lesson on what is and isn’t a word. I think the guy who made the video knew that word actually, that’s why he took the trouble to spell out Biden’s attempt at it.

Why not turn it back on Trump? The guy has gone 35 years without finishing a sentence. I'm not "acting" like anything. I'm debating this specific clip. And I'm not giving you an English lesson. If you're going to pretend that writing "inner-locketers" is not deliberately making fun of Biden's pronunciation of a perfectly understandable word, then you're burying your head to obvious bias. TBH, I don't think it needed subtitles at all, but he did want to get that one in there.

You don’t lose face if you actually criticise the Democrats sometimes, you know? It’s a political virtue if we’re honest about our own failings, and I’m sure you know they have failings..

And you don't lose face if you stop being so dug in on the other side. Is that clip really so incomprehensible? You know it's posted for partisan reasons. The person who posted it calls themselves "The Funny Republican." You're reacting to it as if we need to call for the 35th Amendment, which is pretty extreme, and when I suggest it doesn't seem that we're there, you lecture me, once again, about my own partisanship. Front gives you a :35 clip, and you're ready to depose Biden. I give you some facts and some back up, and I'm biased. OK....

 

[Moxie]

There's a lot of talk that Obama is still calling the shots. Who knows. Biden sure as hell isn't anyway.

And you know this how?

 

[Kieran]

Why not turn it back on Trump? The guy has gone 35 years without finishing a sentence. I'm not "acting" like anything. I'm debating this specific clip. And I'm not giving you an English lesson. If you're going to pretend that writing "inner-locketers" is not deliberately making fun of Biden's pronunciation of a perfectly understandable word, then you're burying your head to obvious bias. TBH, I don't think it needed subtitles at all, but he did want to get that one in there.

And you don't lose face if you stop being so dug in on the other side. Is that clip really so incomprehensible? You know it's posted for partisan reasons. The person who posted it calls themselves "The Funny Republican." You're reacting to it as if we need to call for the 35th Amendment, which is pretty extreme, and when I suggest it doesn't seem that we're there, you lecture me, once again, about my own partisanship. Front gives you a :35 clip, and you're ready to depose Biden. I give you some facts and some back up, and I'm biased. OK....

Of course you’re biased, that’s already been established, but you see somebody making a negative comment about Biden and instantly yell Trump!

You think that it’s only enemies of the Democrats who are wondering if Biden is losing his cognitive abilities, and can he be replaced?

And I’m not “dug in on the other side.” Don’t fall into the trap of thinking that just because I don’t like the Democrats that this means I like Trump. That would be really tribal if you thought that..

 

[Front242]

And you know this how?

I could say the same about you. No one can prove it either way. Do you honestly believe that clown makes all or even any of the decisions himself?

 

[Moxie]

Of course you’re biased, that’s already been established, but you see somebody making a negative comment about Biden and instantly yell Trump!

You think that it’s only enemies of the Democrats who are wondering if Biden is losing his cognitive abilities, and can he be replaced?

And I’m not “dug in on the other side.” Don’t fall into the trap of thinking that just because I don’t like the Democrats that this means I like Trump. That would be really tribal if you thought that..

*sigh* I know you don't like Trump. If you could just answer what I post and not keep editorializing what you think about me, we might get somewhere.

 

[Kieran]

*sigh* I know you don't like Trump. If you could just answer what I post and not keep editorializing what you think about me, we might get somewhere.

I’m not doing that. I’m saying what I think about you - I’m saying that politically you’re tribal to the extent that you never seem to critique the left unfavourably. You argue their arguments for them, using their talking points. You’ve even been given a chance for self reflection with regards to the Democrats and why others might hate them and vote for Trump, and you’ve passed on it, several times. I think we discuss politics in good faith when we actually are open to praising the other side for what they get right, and criticising our own for their failings…

 

[Moxie]

I could say the same about you. No one can prove it either way. Do you honestly believe that clown makes all or even any of the decisions himself?

How do I know that Obama's not really running the country and that Biden is clearly not? Because it's unlikely. Biden is the President, and there is an assumption that he's not a puppet President. We haven't gone all the way into a Banana Republic just yet. You can throw out there that Obama is pulling the strings, but without even a sniff of tangible evidence, you're being the bad part of the internet. Anyone can say anything. I can say that the Russians have dirt on Trump, and he's Putin's tool, but I wouldn't say that, because I have nothing to back that up. And I know that you think Biden is incompetent. You've made that quite clear. But that means also that you think our system of government doesn't work, which I rather resent. I have explained above that there are provisions for presidential incapacity.