US Politics Thread

[Moxie]

Obama was a relatively unknown politician but he had political skills , including being an articulate good public speaker, so like others his leap to the White House followed the path of most politicians. Be a governor, senator, etc with *some* track record, the only other path is win a war with a military record like Ike.

Trump was the exception, but people forget Trump was a public figure for 30+ years, a brand name with a name recognition most politicians would die for. Most Americans were versed in his ways for decades.

You can’t redo “Trump” all that easily with neophytes that no one has heard of.

What Obama had, aside from everything else, was charisma, and a message of hope. And he was tall.

What Trump had, as you say, was a public persona, and let's face it, a certain amount of charisma. He doesn't do it for me, but he does it for a lot of people. He had long-cultivated his public image. For his base, he appealed to their resentment, their anger, their sense of loss. Not a message of hope. But there is a reason that there has been no coat-tail ride in elections on Trumpism...no one is Trump. He's a cult of one. And he's very tall.

I don't see that anyone in the Republican field will get anywhere trying to be Trump. Or Trump-lite, or Trump-less offensive/criminal. At least Nikki Haley seems to be trying to carve out her own lane. I don't think that Pence or DeSantis won much ground. They needed to make a better showing than they did. I thought they disappointed.

 

[tented]

What Obama had, aside from everything else, was charisma, and a message of hope. And he was tall.

What Trump had, as you say, was a public persona, and let's face it, a certain amount of charisma. He doesn't do it for me, but he does it for a lot of people. He had long-cultivated his public image. For his base, he appealed to their resentment, their anger, their sense of loss. Not a message of hope. But there is a reason that there has been no coat-tail ride in elections on Trumpism...no one is Trump. He's a cult of one. And he's very tall.

I don't see that anyone in the Republican field will get anywhere trying to be Trump. Or Trump-lite, or Trump-less offensive/criminal. At least Nikki Haley seems to be trying to carve out her own lane. I don't think that Pence or DeSantis won much ground. They needed to make a better showing than they did. I thought they disappointed.

What would you think of Biden/Haley? There isn’t much enthusiasm for Biden, even among many Democrats, and even less for Harris. Maybe Biden could up his electability with Haley. I don’t know a lot about her, but I don’t think of her as a Trumpian nut. She has always seemed rather moderate for a Republican.

 

[Moxie]

What would you think of Biden/Haley? There isn’t much enthusiasm for Biden, even among many Democrats, and even less for Harris. Maybe Biden could up his electability with Haley. I don’t know a lot about her, but I don’t think of her as a Trumpian nut. She has always seemed rather moderate for a Republican.

Well, that's a very outside-the-box idea. Certainly, it would piss off a lot of progressive Dems. My worry would be it would open a space for a 3rd party progressive to screw things up, a la Ralph Nader in Bush v. Gore. I wouldn't mind if Dems had some candidates to challenge Biden and give it a proper airing of platform. (By which I mean someone other than RFK, Jr.) Perhaps a different running mate could emerge from that, though I don't think he'll dump Harris.

 

[tented]

Well, that's a very outside-the-box idea. Certainly, it would piss off a lot of progressive Dems. My worry would be it would open a space for a 3rd party progressive to screw things up, a la Ralph Nader in Bush v. Gore. I wouldn't mind if Dems had some candidates to challenge Biden and give it a proper airing of platform. (By which I mean someone other than RFK, Jr.) Perhaps a different running mate could emerge from that, though I don't think he'll dump Harris.

I thought it would be a way to ensure Biden’s reelection by pulling the independents and swing voters. It’s not as if I have a special affinity for Haley. I get what you mean, though, about opening the door for someone to challenge him, which would be terrible.

 

[Moxie]

I thought it would be a way to ensure Biden’s reelection by pulling the independents and swing voters. It’s not as if I have a special affinity for Haley. I get what you mean, though, about opening the door for someone to challenge him, which would be terrible.

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think "gaming" the race is a winning strategy. I think independents and swing voters are already inclined towards the Democrats, if the Republicans put Trump up again. And, unless the Republicans come up with, and vote for a more charismatic alternative to Trump via the primaries, Biden is the incumbent, and has a solid chance. The economy is doing better, even though polls show that many Americans still feel pessimistic. That has a certain amount to do with what people are getting fed on Fox News and the like. The right-wing and Republicans have been trading on non-stop pessimism for a long time, including about the economy and crime in major US cities, even when it's "fake news."

The Republicans are also still sticking with their extremism on abortion/women's health care issues, and on climate change, which is losing them the support of women and young people in droves. Nikki Haley said in the debate the other night that Trump can't win, to the gasps and groans of the audience, but she's right. He didn't even win the popular vote when he won the Presidency, when people were actually optimistic about a new voice from him in politics. Against Hilary Clinton, who was pretty unpopular with many people.

"All" Joe Biden has to do is keep his head down and run on an improving economy, which is what he's doing. What scares me is someone like RFK, Jr., who is actually picking up support amongst the weirder fringes even of the Republican/Trump base, who are now making up some 39% of his donations...and there are big donations from individuals. If he were to run as a 3rd party candidate, he would take votes from both sides, the way it looks now. But his name IS Kennedy.

 

[tented]

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think "gaming" the race is a winning strategy. I think independents and swing voters are already inclined towards the Democrats, if the Republicans put Trump up again. And, unless the Republicans come up with, and vote for a more charismatic alternative to Trump via the primaries, Biden is the incumbent, and has a solid chance. The economy is doing better, even though polls show that many Americans still feel pessimistic. That has a certain amount to do with what people are getting fed on Fox News and the like. The right-wing and Republicans have been trading on non-stop pessimism for a long time, including about the economy and crime in major US cities, even when it's "fake news."

The Republicans are also still sticking with their extremism on abortion/women's health care issues, and on climate change, which is losing them the support of women and young people in droves. Nikki Haley said in the debate the other night that Trump can't win, to the gasps and groans of the audience, but she's right. He didn't even win the popular vote when he won the Presidency, when people were actually optimistic about a new voice from him in politics. Against Hilary Clinton, who was pretty unpopular with many people.

"All" Joe Biden has to do is keep his head down and run on an improving economy, which is what he's doing. What scares me is someone like RFK, Jr., who is actually picking up support amongst the weirder fringes even of the Republican/Trump base, who are now making up some 39% of his donations...and there are big donations from individuals. If he were to run as a 3rd party candidate, he would take votes from both sides, the way it looks now. But his name IS Kennedy.

I’m not worried about RFK, Jr., but maybe I should be. I know he’s out there, gaining some momentum, and appearing on what feels like every podcast. We’ll see.

I had been obsessed with Trump getting the nomination which would be the best possible result for the Dems, but then I saw reports of how disenfranchised so many Republicans would be if he didn’t get it, that they wouldn’t even vote. So maybe we should hope Trump doesn’t get the nomination? That’s risky. I still think Trump will lose, no matter what. He only won in 2016 because Hillary is so widely hated. I’m convinced if any other Democrat had been running, Trump would have lost.

 

[Federberg]

I’m not worried about RFK, Jr., but maybe I should be. I know he’s out there, gaining some momentum, and appearing on what feels like every podcast. We’ll see.

I had been obsessed with Trump getting the nomination which would be the best possible result for the Dems, but then I saw reports of how disenfranchised so many Republicans would be if he didn’t get it, that they wouldn’t even vote. So maybe we should hope Trump doesn’t get the nomination? That’s risky. I still think Trump will lose, no matter what. He only won in 2016 because Hillary is so widely hated. I’m convinced if any other Democrat had been running, Trump would have lost.

Trump's relative numbers keep going down. I think there will be a lot of Republican leaning voters who simply won't vote if he gets the nomination. This is why RFK Jr is such a threat. He has the ability to siphon off votes from Biden. I suspect that the PACs supporting RFK Jr are doing it with this in mind... for a certain orange buffoon... It's a disgrace to his family's legacy

 

[Front242]

What Obama had, aside from everything else, was charisma, and a message of hope. And he was tall.

What Trump had, as you say, was a public persona, and let's face it, a certain amount of charisma. He doesn't do it for me, but he does it for a lot of people. He had long-cultivated his public image. For his base, he appealed to their resentment, their anger, their sense of loss. Not a message of hope. But there is a reason that there has been no coat-tail ride in elections on Trumpism...no one is Trump. He's a cult of one. And he's very tall.

I don't see that anyone in the Republican field will get anywhere trying to be Trump. Or Trump-lite, or Trump-less offensive/criminal. At least Nikki Haley seems to be trying to carve out her own lane. I don't think that Pence or DeSantis won much ground. They needed to make a better showing than they did. I thought they disappointed.

Agree he had great charisma but he was a warmongering scumbag just like so many. That undid any perceived good from his charisma.

America dropped 26,171 bombs in 2016. What a bloody end to Obama's reign | Medea Benjamin

According to new figures, the US dropped nearly three bombs every hour, 24 hours a day. Dare we think how Donald Trump will continue this legacy?

www.google.ca

 

[Kieran]

Agree he had great charisma but he was a warmongering scumbag just like so many. That undid any perceived good from his charisma.

America dropped 26,171 bombs in 2016. What a bloody end to Obama's reign | Medea Benjamin

According to new figures, the US dropped nearly three bombs every hour, 24 hours a day. Dare we think how Donald Trump will continue this legacy?

www.google.ca

Wait, he got the Nobel peace prize, are you sure?

And what a misplaced gift that was..

 

[tented]

Wait, he got the Nobel peace prize, are you sure?

And what a misplaced gift that was..

Yes, he ”won” the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009, after having been in office less than a year. I’ve always perceived it as an attempt to stop the Iraq war, rather than anything else.

 

[Kieran]

Yes, he ”won” the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009, after having been in office less than a year. I’ve always perceived it as an attempt to stop the Iraq war, rather than anything else.

As Christopher Hitchens once said, it was like giving an academy award to an actor to encourage them to make a good film. Obama didn’t make that good film, unfortunately..

 

[tented]

As Christopher Hitchens once said, it was like giving an academy award to an actor to encourage them to make a good film. Obama didn’t make that good film, unfortunately..

Good analogy.

For what happened with this Peace Prize, I think it reflected poorly on the Academy, not Obama.

 

[Kieran]

Good analogy.

For what happened with this Peace Prize, I think it reflected poorly on the Academy, not Obama.

Absolutely!

 

[Federberg]

Yes, he ”won” the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009, after having been in office less than a year. I’ve always perceived it as an attempt to stop the Iraq war, rather than anything else.

I just thought it was pandering to the first black American President. A new world era etc... Nothing wrong with it, but hardly deserved. Might as well give it to Reagan for ending the Cold War! That would have been more substantive to my way of thinking (not that I thought he deserved it). And @Front242 is spot on with the drone killings. And let's not even talk about Libya...

 

[Moxie]

I just thought it was pandering to the first black American President. A new world era etc... Nothing wrong with it, but hardly deserved. Might as well give it to Reagan for ending the Cold War! That would have been more substantive to my way of thinking (not that I thought he deserved it). And @Front242 is spot on with the drone killings. And let's not even talk about Libya...

If you want to be really cynical about it, I always thought they gave the Nobel Peace Prize to the American people for electing a Black President. It was way before time and based on nothing. At least Jimmy Carter earned the one he got, and was well deserved.

 

[tented]

I just thought it was pandering to the first black American President. A new world era etc... Nothing wrong with it, but hardly deserved. Might as well give it to Reagan for ending the Cold War! That would have been more substantive to my way of thinking (not that I thought he deserved it). And @Front242 is spot on with the drone killings. And let's not even talk about Libya...

If you want to be really cynical about it, I always thought they gave the Nobel Peace Prize to the American people for electing a Black President. It was way before time and based on nothing. At least Jimmy Carter earned the one he got, and was well deserved.

How strange. I never thought it had anything to do with race. I thought it was the Academy’s way of basically guilting him into stopping the Iraq War, since they knew Bush and Cheney wouldn‘t do it.

 

[Federberg]

If you want to be really cynical about it, I always thought they gave the Nobel Peace Prize to the American people for electing a Black President. It was way before time and based on nothing. At least Jimmy Carter earned the one he got, and was well deserved.

actually I think you've said it perfectly!

 

[Federberg]

How strange. I never thought it had anything to do with race. I thought it was the Academy’s way of basically guilting him into stopping the Iraq War, since they knew Bush and Cheney wouldn‘t do it.

back at that time when he was elected, I can't describe to you how profound it was outside of the US. It was a big BIG deal! I'm not sure it would have been possible not to flavour everything with the goodwill engendered all around the world

 

[Federberg]

There just might be hope...

MSN

 

[Kieran]

There just might be hope...

MSN

We’re not hearing a serious person when we hear from Trump, are we? He’s like a playground bully who’s been kept back a few years for being slow..