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Moxie

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as I've said before, I think if Trump gets the GOP nomination, the loss will be bigger this time. I can't understand how Republicans have so badly read the room on this issue. The fact that it's not going away, and is probably even getting stronger as an issue should be terrifying for them. It would make far more sense to enshrine it into law with decent time limits.
The GOP has had this issue as a lynch pin for so long that they don't seem to know how to pull back once they won a big battle. When the Supreme Court overturned Roe, it clearly shook a lot of Americans. The Republican wake-up call as to their extremism on the issue should have come at the midterms. As you say, they're not "reading the room." They need to find some balance between standing on their oft-voiced principles, and what seems to be the general consensus on the right to some access to abortion in the US. I agree that they should work on bipartisan legislation to create some federal minimum standard to protect women (and, frankly doctors and caregivers.) While that might lose them some of the base, it would gain them a lot of goodwill in general...and in general elections.
 

Moxie

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That’s actually very good, we get a lot of blockbusters that are less coherent. The Trump cameo was hilarious, and the totalitarian alien Holocaust was disturbing, but it was a good watch, and I think you’re right. Hollywood execs will think there’s a lucrative short cut here…
that is terrifyingly good...
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate on this one. I agree that it's clever. It's just a short, and designed to show what AI can do. But it's sort of a fake newsreel, to the point that it comes with a disclaimer on Youtube. Rather "War of the Worlds."

Also in the disclaimer: "None of it is real. It’s just a movie, made mostly with AI, which took care of writing the script, creating the concept art, generating all the voices, and participating in some creative decisions."

Just to take that apart a bit:

* "Made mostly with AI." I'd be curious to know what bits weren't AI. The editing? No one talked about that. (For more questions, see below.)

* "...creating concept art, generating voices..." - That's what it does...no issues, really, except that the art was pretty 2-D and not great, nor were the voices. But I'll give it the benefit of the doubt that it was a cheap and quick one-off.

* "...which took care of writing the script." From whose concept? What do you have to ask the AI in order for it to generate a script? Can you just say, "Write a script?" I'm going to guess that the director of this AI film had a pretty good idea of what he wanted it to do, and possibly chose sci-fi for a reason. How much did he tell it before it "wrote" the script? How much of it is "guided" script-writing?

Surely producers will eventually be able to plug in things they want, and let the AI do the work, without hiring a creative on the script, to some extent: "Write me a rom-com to 110 minutes for Ryan Reynolds and any A-List Female aged 20-28." Would it be formulaic? A lot of rom-coms are, though they can be lifted by actual comedy, and charming performances. In this, you can't substitute great actors and what they bring. I'm also curious to know how long before AI has a sense of humor. I know any number of human beings that don't have one. :)

* "...(AI) participating in some of the creative decisions." Now there's a gap. "Some" of the creative decisions?" Not even "most"? Then, who IS making the creative decisions? The poster credits himself as the director. This goes to my point above, as in, who is the creative person who asks the AI the questions? I will stand by the notion that every film does need a director. And a producer. (And a writer, if the director isn't one, and actors, and a production designer, and an editor, at the very least. I won't bore you with the crafts people that it will still take to turn it into something that can be broadcast or screened.)

Again, it's just a short, but it would take a lot to turn it into a feature film. And what would make it watchable for 2 hours? The human stories that go with it. (This story comes from "Star Wars," "Independence Day," etc., and it's a LONG way from those. It's a faux newsreel, not a narrative.)

I am obviously advocating for the need for the human creatives in my business. These are my people. At the very least, I think writers and actors are a long way from being replaceable.

This film is not 100% AI, (self-described) so don't be fooled by that, and it's pretty far from original.

I appreciate your putting up this example, @tented, and I'm not trying to just slag it. It helps make my case as to why the AI question in creative contract negotiations is so complicated.
 
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mrzz

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At the very least, I think writers and actors are a long way from being replaceable.

To make good and/or original stuff, yes. To make (modern) typical Hollywood style shit, no.
 

Moxie

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To make good and/or original stuff, yes. To make (modern) typical Hollywood style shit, no.
Since Hollywood has embraced comic books, I agree with you they can get away with a lot of crap. They always have. But if the US film business wants to stay at the top of the world game, it has to embrace...and pay...it's best creative talent a livable wage. They can only get away with crap if they continue, also, to produce quality product in films and TV.
 

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I'm going to play Devil's Advocate on this one. I agree that it's clever. It's just a short, and designed to show what AI can do. But it's sort of a fake newsreel, to the point that it comes with a disclaimer on Youtube. Rather "War of the Worlds."

Also in the disclaimer: "None of it is real. It’s just a movie, made mostly with AI, which took care of writing the script, creating the concept art, generating all the voices, and participating in some creative decisions."

Just to take that apart a bit:

* "Made mostly with AI." I'd be curious to know what bits weren't AI. The editing? No one talked about that. (For more questions, see below.)

* "...creating concept art, generating voices..." - That's what it does...no issues, really, except that the art was pretty 2-D and not great, nor were the voices. But I'll give it the benefit of the doubt that it was a cheap and quick one-off.

* "...which took care of writing the script." From whose concept? What do you have to ask the AI in order for it to generate a script? Can you just say, "Write a script?" I'm going to guess that the director of this AI film had a pretty good idea of what he wanted it to do, and possibly chose sci-fi for a reason. How much did he tell it before it "wrote" the script? How much of it is "guided" script-writing?

Surely producers will eventually be able to plug in things they want, and let the AI do the work, without hiring a creative on the script, to some extent: "Write me a rom-com to 110 minutes for Ryan Reynolds and any A-List Female aged 20-28." Would it be formulaic? A lot of rom-coms are, though they can be lifted by actual comedy, and charming performances. In this, you can't substitute great actors and what they bring. I'm also curious to know how long before AI has a sense of humor. I know any number of human beings that don't have one. :)

* "...(AI) participating in some of the creative decisions." Now there's a gap. "Some" of the creative decisions?" Not even "most"? Then, who IS making the creative decisions? The poster credits himself as the director. This goes to my point above, as in, who is the creative person who asks the AI the questions? I will stand by the notion that every film does need a director. And a producer. (And a writer, if the director isn't one, and actors, and a production designer, and an editor, at the very least. I won't bore you with the crafts people that it will still take to turn it into something that can be broadcast or screened.)

Again, it's just a short, but it would take a lot to turn it into a feature film. And what would make it watchable for 2 hours? The human stories that go with it. (This story comes from "Star Wars," "Independence Day," etc., and it's a LONG way from those. It's a faux newsreel, not a narrative.)

I am obviously advocating for the need for the human creatives in my business. These are my people. At the very least, I think writers and actors are a long way from being replaceable.

This film is not 100% AI, (self-described) so don't be fooled by that, and it's pretty far from original.

I appreciate your putting up this example, @tented, and I'm not trying to just slag it. It helps make my case as to why the AI question in creative contract negotiations is so complicated.
That was merely one example which I found quickly on YouTube. There are many others. And while this example can be viewed as a fancy newsreel, it’s also a reflection of the current state of the software. Given the rate at which AI is evolving, within six months it could be possible to create a full length movie which would make this one seem like a child created it.

The more I look at examples, the more it’s occurring to me that AI not only has the chance of eliminating actors and writers; it has the chance of eliminating Hollywood. It’s similar to what we’ve seen happen to the music industry which is a shadow of its former self because it’s now so easy to record and distribute music from your home — no need for record companies, which notoriously took advantage of young musicians, nor music distributors, when everything can be listened to and downloaded at home.

Maybe it’s time for Hollywood executives to join the picket lines, too?
 
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Kieran

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He’s right in what he says, including about Hunter Biden. And “this family grift” he mentions should mean that you get new candidates from both parties next year..
 

Moxie

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That was merely one example which I found quickly on YouTube. There are many others. And while this example can be viewed as a fancy newsreel, it’s also a reflection of the current state of the software. Given the rate at which AI is evolving, within six months it could be possible to create a full length movie which would make this one seem like a child created it.

The more I look at examples, the more it’s occurring to me that AI not only has the chance of eliminating actors and writers; it has the chance of eliminating Hollywood. It’s similar to what we’ve seen happen to the music industry which is a shadow of its former self because it’s now so easy to record and distribute music from your home — no need for record companies, which notoriously took advantage of young musicians, nor music distributors, when everything can be listened to and downloaded at home.

Maybe it’s time for Hollywood executives to join the picket lines, too?
As I said, I did understand that it was a demonstration video, and I wasn't trying to slag it, at all. (Which I also said.) I have no problem believing that there are better examples, or that AI will get better. I sort of thought that the other points I was trying to make were interesting, especially in the context of contract negotiations. I do still wonder who drives the train? At least for now, doesn't it still take the humans to "direct" the AI, to some extent?

I suppose it is completely possible that AIs will eventually "become" great actors, great writers, great cinematographers, editors, etc., fully capable of generating amazing films without human input. Maybe they'll even put them up on youtube all by themselves. As you say, this might just be the end of "Hollywood." Which would/might mean the end of the power of big producers. I'd be OK with that. But do you think humans will stop making films? Personally, I don't. There has already been a great democratizing of the filmmaking process with the onset of digital "film," and the fact that everyone owns a super-computer. But digital wasn't even the death of celluloid. People still make films on film because it's beautiful. There is a physical quality to it that is now very well-replicated for most purposes, but I have a cinema around the corner from me that is showing Oppenheimer in 70mm, projected on film. And still offers old movies projected in 35mm. OK, call that nostalgic, and maybe it won't last much longer.

While the cult of certain screenwriters and directors is small, there is certainly an audience for film stars. So, even if an AI can generate a Scarlett Johansson or Samuel L. Jackson performance (two name 2 of the biggest ever,) wouldn't they still owe something to those actors? They'd be using their image and name. On the other hand, maybe we could have a completely new Bogart/Bacall movie. That's intriguing.

For the foreseeable future, I think the use of AI should have stipulations in the contracts under negotiation.
 

Moxie

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as I've said before, I think if Trump gets the GOP nomination, the loss will be bigger this time. I can't understand how Republicans have so badly read the room on this issue. The fact that it's not going away, and is probably even getting stronger as an issue should be terrifying for them. It would make far more sense to enshrine it into law with decent time limits.
On Meet the Press this morning, they put up a poll. Overall, 66% of Republicans are in favor of the breaking up of Roe v. Wade. However, when they parse it out, 80% of MAGA Republicans are in favor of it, but only 51% of non-MAGA Republicans are. This is where they get in trouble in suburban Ohio, Kansas, etc. They're losing suburban non-MAGA Republicans. And not only, I suspect, on this issue.
 
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Kieran

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either that or she doesn't realise her own stupidity
Just an interesting counter-example here, a discussion between Republican presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy and a woman who identifies as pan-sexual.

It’s described as worse than it is, and kudos to her!

 
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Just an interesting counter-example here, a discussion between Republican presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy and a woman who identifies as pan-sexual.

It’s described as worse than it is, and kudos to her!


that was a masterful response, even though I think his candidacy is fundamentally dishonest. I think he's running for Vice-President, not President. I would respect him more if he had the balls to say it out loud
 
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that was a masterful response, even though I think his candidacy is fundamentally dishonest. I think he's running for Vice-President, not President. I would respect him more if he had the balls to say it out loud
I don’t think it makes sense for him to say that though, because funny enough it harms his campaign. He has to be invited to be Veep, not to campaign for it. And if he keeps answering the questions the way he is, he’ll be in a very strong position in the coming months.

In other words, he’ll say he won’t be Veep, that he wants the top job, but he’ll reluctantly accept the VP nomination when it comes - for the good of the country! It’s good politics!
 

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I don’t think it makes sense for him to say that though, because funny enough it harms his campaign. He has to be invited to be Veep, not to campaign for it. And if he keeps answering the questions the way he is, he’ll be in a very strong position in the coming months.

In other words, he’ll say he won’t be Veep, that he wants the top job, but he’ll reluctantly accept the VP nomination when it comes - for the good of the country! It’s good politics!
Exactly.
 

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I don’t think it makes sense for him to say that though, because funny enough it harms his campaign. He has to be invited to be Veep, not to campaign for it. And if he keeps answering the questions the way he is, he’ll be in a very strong position in the coming months.

In other words, he’ll say he won’t be Veep, that he wants the top job, but he’ll reluctantly accept the VP nomination when it comes - for the good of the country! It’s good politics!
oh I hear you. And I know you're right, and I'm assuming an ideal world. But his comments about immediately pardoning Trump are so blatantly self serving, it offends me. It's just the part of politics I've grown to loathe :)
 

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oh I hear you. And I know you're right, and I'm assuming an ideal world. But his comments about immediately pardoning Trump are so blatantly self serving, it offends me. It's just the part of politics I've grown to loathe :)
I’d say he wants to appeal to a Republican base that would never vote for the Trump-killer. It’s shrewd but risky because it’s like walking a tightrope with - well, with Trump…
 

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I’d say he wants to appeal to a Republican base that would never vote for the Trump-killer. It’s shrewd but risky because it’s like walking a tightrope with - well, with Trump…
it's utterly stupid. Everyone knows Trump would require total subservience. Furthermore, the mere fact that he's in the race against Trump is probably disqualifying for him. I think even Niki Haley doesn't stand a chance. My money is on Kari Lake
 
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it's utterly stupid. Everyone knows Trump would require total subservience. Furthermore, the mere fact that he's in the race against Trump is probably disqualifying for him. I think even Niki Haley doesn't stand a chance. My money is on Kari Lake
I think he’s counting on being the only man left standing next year, with trump out of the way. Hard to tell. He’s inexperienced at this stuff, prolly keeping his options open. He’s now second in the race on the Republican side..
 

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it's utterly stupid. Everyone knows Trump would require total subservience. Furthermore, the mere fact that he's in the race against Trump is probably disqualifying for him. I think even Niki Haley doesn't stand a chance. My money is on Kari Lake

Lake is a good guess, but I never rule out Haley.
 
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