US Politics Thread

[Moxie]

It's important that we don't take our eyes off the ball. Yes there appears to be a civil war in Congress, but I fear something more insidious is happening in the States. There are a host of States that are trying to implement anti-democratic legislation that will knee cap future elections. It is extraordinary that this could be happening in the United States, but it is...

Like what?

 

[Federberg]

Like what?

for example in Arizona, the legislature is looking at a law that would effectively allow them to challenge election results they don't agree with. Or so I've been told. That sounds terrifying to me..

 

[Moxie]

for example in Arizona, the legislature is looking at a law that would effectively allow them to challenge election results they don't agree with. Or so I've been told. That sounds terrifying to me.

This seems unusually mushy and slightly hysterical for you. I found this:

Proposed law would allow Arizona Legislature to overturn presidential election results

Republican's proposal would allow Arizona Legislature to overturn presidential election results even after they are formally certified by the governor and secretary of state and the electors are counted by

tucson.com

Some of it is worrying if it holds up in court, but I'm not convinced about it would. Even though states control their own elections, we're still talking about states overturning the vote. It's not just a matter of passing a law...it has to hold up in court, and enfranchisement is a big deal.

 

[Federberg]

This seems unusually mushy and slightly hysterical for you. I found this:

Proposed law would allow Arizona Legislature to overturn presidential election results

Republican's proposal would allow Arizona Legislature to overturn presidential election results even after they are formally certified by the governor and secretary of state and the electors are counted by

tucson.com

Some of it is worrying if it holds up in court, but I'm not convinced about it would. Even though states control their own elections, we're still talking about states overturning the vote. It's not just a matter of passing a law...it has to hold up in court, and enfranchisement is a big deal.

Mushy and hysterical? I’m not really sure where that’s coming from. You just had over 140 Representatives vote against affirming the elections... after insurrectionists had defecated in their halls and killed people. They continue to perpetuate lies about the elections and construct a narrative that might be as charismatic as “the lost cause”. If Democrats like you are really as complacent as you sound then I’m even more terrified for your country

 

[Moxie]

Mushy and hysterical? I’m not really sure where that’s coming from. You just had over 140 Representatives vote against affirming the elections... after insurrectionists had defecated in their halls and killed people. They continue to perpetuate lies about the elections and construct a narrative that might be as charismatic as “the lost cause”. If Democrats like you are really as complacent as you sound then I’m even more terrified for your country

I just thought you were more of a procedural kind of a guy. I'm trying to put one foot in front of the other and not let the freaks on the extremist end turn my head or keep my eyes off of what is important. I'm also trying not to sound like them, as in as if I'm hyperventilating. I just thought your last was a bit uncharacteristic, but I may have just been spending too much time on FB.

 

[Federberg]

I just thought you were more of a procedural kind of a guy. I'm trying to put one foot in front of the other and not let the freaks on the extremist end turn my head or keep my eyes off of what is important. I'm also trying not to sound like them, as in as if I'm hyperventilating. I just thought your last was a bit uncharacteristic, but I may have just been spending too much time on FB.

I’m a student of history. I am watching an obvious lie being perpetuated just like it was after the civil war. Just like it was by the nazis. The consequence of one lie was Jim Crow and another the holocaust. These things actually happened. To ignore that strikes me as recklessly complacent. Thank goodness for the voting machine companies. They just might save your democracy

 

[Moxie]

I’m a student of history. I am watching an obvious lie being perpetuated just like it was after the civil war. Just like it was by the nazis. The consequence of one lie was Jim Crow and another the holocaust. These things actually happened. To ignore that strikes me as recklessly complacent. Thank goodness for the voting machine companies. They just might save your democracy

I'm also laying some skin on our Constitution, and the courts to support it. You know that I am far from complacent and have taken to the streets and also worked within the system many times. Given that Republicans are in such disarray generally, how divided their party is, and how much power they have lost, I'm not prepared to freak out over small and likely un-Constitutional efforts at undermining the vote. Oh, I will fight them, but they've been doing this for years. This is not new. Weren't you recently questioning me on how difficult it is, really, to get an ID, etc., and did that really disenfranchise people? (Sorry if that wasn't you.) I will fight to protect the value of the vote, and everyone's access to it. The big fight is going to be to get rid of the Electoral College. There is also a lot at stake in terms of the way the next census comes out, in the summer, and how the districts get gerrymandered, or not. Honestly, I think these are more boring, but more fundamentally important issues. States, or more importantly, politicians, making a stand by proposing laws that will get them votes, but won't hold up in court don't worry me as much as what I said above. Now, I will give you that the Supreme Court overturned the Voting Rights Act, so I can't completely trust the courts. I know what the fight is, and it didn't just start with AZ and some law that they're proposing that I honestly don't think will stand up in court. What I'm talking about is the long game, and if you're such a student of history, you'll understand that.

 

[Federberg]

I'm also laying some skin on our Constitution, and the courts to support it. You know that I am far from complacent and have taken to the streets and also worked within the system many times. Given that Republicans are in such disarray generally, how divided their party is, and how much power they have lost, I'm not prepared to freak out over small and likely un-Constitutional efforts at undermining the vote. Oh, I will fight them, but they've been doing this for years. This is not new. Weren't you recently questioning me on how difficult it is, really, to get an ID, etc., and did that really disenfranchise people? (Sorry if that wasn't you.) I will fight to protect the value of the vote, and everyone's access to it. The big fight is going to be to get rid of the Electoral College. There is also a lot at stake in terms of the way the next census comes out, in the summer, and how the districts get gerrymandered, or not. Honestly, I think these are more boring, but more fundamentally important issues. States, or more importantly, politicians, making a stand by proposing laws that will get them votes, but won't hold up in court don't worry me as much as what I said above. Now, I will give you that the Supreme Court overturned the Voting Rights Act, so I can't completely trust the courts. I know what the fight is, and it didn't just start with AZ and some law that they're proposing that I honestly don't think will stand up in court. What I'm talking about is the long game, and if you're such a student of history, you'll understand that.

oh I understand the long game. But I fear your preoccupation with the macro is misplaced. First of all I can't see how the Electoral College gets overturned in our life time, that's a dream. But the death by a thousand cuts of anti-democratic laws at the State level will do more damage than any other thing. Look around, there are attempts in Georgia, Arizona, Texas even Michigan to change laws to the specific benefit of one party. The down ballot elections were not good for Democrats so it's not clear to me that you folks will get a decent outcome for this next 10 year cycle. I hope I'm wrong, but you folks need to do some serious work and remain vigilant. As for your Constitution all I have to say to that is Citizens United...

if you want to characterise my concerns as mushy or overblown that's your call. Let's revisit this in a year or two when the GOP has managed to regress your democracy even further

 

[Moxie]

I didn't mean to insult you. You can dish out a bit of back and forth, so I figured you could take it. No offense intended.

 

[Federberg]

I didn't mean to insult you. You can dish out a bit of back and forth, so I figured you could take it. No offense intended.

I'm not offended at all. I'm a little confused about how flippant you seem to be about this. Trump might be gone, but I don't think your democracy has ever been in as much danger as it is right now

 

[Federberg]

 

[Moxie]

I'm not offended at all. I'm a little confused about how flippant you seem to be about this. Trump might be gone, but I don't think your democracy has ever been in as much danger as it is right now

I don't think I'm flippant. This is the internet, and here is one prism of the spectrum of my opinions. Perhaps I have a bit of outrage fatigue, after 4 years of it. Perhaps I'm overwhelmed with grief from personal loss and collective loss. Perhaps I am taking on conversations with conservative friends, and trying not to go to the most extremes of blaming them, or treating them as Nazis. It is tiring. I watched the videos of the outrageous violence at the Capitol today, and it is crushingly sad. I am not flippant, or complacent. I am deeply sad. I promise to try to rally, and I'll never give up the fight, but these are soul-crushing times, and sometimes the soul is not especially resilient.

 

[Federberg]

what the absolute fuck??? Is he seriously trying to tell us that what we saw with our own eyes didn't happen?

 

[tented]

what the absolute fuck??? Is he seriously trying to tell us that what we saw with our own eyes didn't happen?

FFS, Fox News is shameless. This is a landmark combination of lies and whataboutism.

I’ve been switching to Fox every now and then over the last few days to see if they have been showing any of the impeachment, and haven’t seen one second, unlike MSNBC & CNN which have shown every second. But I’d bet my life once the defense begins, Fox will start showing it nonstop.

 

[Federberg]

FFS, Fox News is shameless. This is a landmark combination of lies and whataboutism.

I’ve been switching to Fox every now and then over the last few days to see if they have been showing any of the impeachment, and haven’t seen one second, unlike MSNBC & CNN which have shown every second. But I’d bet my life once the defense begins, Fox will start showing it nonstop.

I cannot understand how in a functioning democracy a channel like Fox News can be allowed to exist. I'm tired of hearing how other cable channels are comparable or worse. With the greatest of respect this is monstrous bullshit. They actively fucking lie on that channel. Do the other channels show bias or misrepresent facts sometimes? Sure they do. But with Fox it's part of their DNA. I mean seriously the state channel in North Korea probably look at their propaganda and are envious

 

[tented]

The House has finished presenting their part of the impeachment. I think they did an excellent job, especially Reps. Raskin, Plaskett, and Neguse.

 

[Moxie]

FFS, Fox News is shameless. This is a landmark combination of lies and whataboutism.

I’ve been switching to Fox every now and then over the last few days to see if they have been showing any of the impeachment, and haven’t seen one second, unlike MSNBC & CNN which have shown every second. But I’d bet my life once the defense begins, Fox will start showing it nonstop.

I am sick to death of people on the conservative side, pundits and civilians alike, pivoting to Black Lives Matter protests when we're discussing the riots at the Capitol. As if these things are even comparable. But more than that, can't they put down their partisanship for a second and remember their own supposed values? Blue Lives Matter, except when they're threatened or taken by those on the extreme right?? How about storming the Capitol in an attempt to disrupt one of our most important basic acts of democracy...effecting the peaceful transfer of powers? These terrorists/insurrectionists attempted to overthrow the government and assassinate major public features, and it wasn't just empty rhetoric. Even for those who choose to believe that Trump didn't have a hand in it, or don't think this is impeachable, or that he can't be impeached after leaving office (they'll believe what they like,) but spare some actual outrage for what did actually happen, and yes, enough with the "whataboutism."

The House has finished presenting their part of the impeachment. I think they did an excellent job, especially Reps. Raskin, Plaskett, and Neguse.

I agree with this. Plus, their evidence is not hearsay, or backroom conversations. Much is on video to be seen, or in Trump's speeches and tweets. I was glad they gave names and spelled out specific injuries to officers, and that they spoke of how deeply aggrieved, hurt and traumatized officers were, particularly some Black officers for having been repeatedly called the N-word that day. And how rough it was even on the custodial staff having to clean up blood and feces on the Capitol floors and walls. People need to know and understand what happened that day, and who the people are that it happened to. Some will refuse to see and know, and Fox will accommodate that, but not everyone of a conservative mindset will. I know a fair number of ex-military who are conservatives, but were deeply offended by what happened on 6 January.

 

[kskate2]

FFS, Fox News is shameless. This is a landmark combination of lies and whataboutism.

I’ve been switching to Fox every now and then over the last few days to see if they have been showing any of the impeachment, and haven’t seen one second, unlike MSNBC & CNN which have shown every second. But I’d bet my life once the defense begins, Fox will start showing it nonstop.

Yesterday, my brother switched to them a few times to see what they were saying. He said they were discussing breast milk.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Federberg]

Thought this was an awesome rant. Well worth the read just for the erudition

 

[Federberg]

fascinating podcast about Fox News and how they just might be teetering on the edge of oblivion. Worth a listen...

There Is a Way to Take Down Fox News (And It’s Not a Boycott)

In this episode of The New Abnormal, Media Matters’ Angelo Carusone shares Fox News’ alleged Achilles heel and Sam Brodey gives us an insider POV of the impeachment hearings.

www.thedailybeast.com