US Politics Thread

[britbox]

BB.. please explain how that or anything from Cali is has any more value than a Detoxing bio break. If you're dug in and feel that your views are more in alignment with Cali, than So be It. I tried to inject a sense of reality in your head, that's all and I'm Done with this Thread.

My views are my own, thanks. If particular ones on looting, rioting and let's not forget murder (people seem to be conveniently forgetting that there have been further murders associated with these riots) align with Cali, then what of it?

If Cali presents data you think is wrong, then address it. Address the data.

Yesterday, you were posting about burning things down, by any means necessary. That kind of view isn't one I'm going to be onboard with anytime soon. So, yes, for your "solution" of wanton destruction and chaos, people sharing a similar mindset to me, would be part of your problem.

 

[the AntiPusher]

My views are my own, thanks. If particular ones on looting, rioting and let's not forget murder (people seem to be conveniently forgetting that there have been further murders associated with these riots) align with Cali, then what of it?

If Cali presents data you think is wrong, then address it. Address the data.

Yesterday, you were posting about burning things down, by any means necessary. That kind of view isn't one I'm going to be onboard with anytime soon. So, yes, for your "solution" of wanton destruction and chaos, people sharing a similar mindset to me, would be part of your problem.

Not my problem, let's don't get it twisted. The problem of the current racial systemic that has been magnified by the long history.of unarmed black.murdered by the police and their cohorts.
BB. Stay on point. George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Tamire Rice, Ahmaud Avery who was unarmed but murdered by Policemen. Whatever Cali is campaigning about has no merit with what the protesters plight. For you to try to change the narrative with Cali's foolishness or the irresponsible and selfish acts of looters has really shown your thoughts. Soon this may happen in the UK, soon your Communities may resemble Minnesota and the recently burned areas of America.. Remember..to reach out to Cali for his data and his empathy.
Enough of this back and forth.

 

[mrzz]

@calitennis127 , I have seen and read your posts, there are some points I really want to debate. I disagree (as you know) with some of your conclusions and premises, on the other I agree with some of the points you raise, so a lot of middle ground there to discuss. You guys are in the middle of a huge political fight there, that got violent in the streets, and therefore will get nasty here as well. No point in me trying to get in the middle of that.

So I won't reply immediately partly because of that, but also because I need more time than I have to think/look at some points.

BTW, hope no one of my American fellow posters does not get shot or hurt (or don't shoot anyone as well).

 

[Moxie]

My point is that the analysis I am seeing in the two videos uploaded and discussed here, are too emotional. I am not dismissing them, I think they are honest reactions, that need to be heard.But, as an analysis, because of the emotional part, they are limited and/or wrong. I do not doubt that there people out there making good, well thought analysis of this problem since the 60's, 70's, 80s... But when I do see you writing the word "subtle", I cannot help but remember that it is very easy to confuse subtlety for "unverified underlying assumption".

There is one giant elephant in the room that is simply being ignored (in this thread I mean). In all the talk above, when people say that the "social contract is not being observed" (which is by the way a very clever and concise way to put things), people are not referring to one single death, as tragic as it may be. If the social contract is failing, those things are happening in a mass scale. If they are happening in a mass scale, you then need to look at the data. In that regard, ANY conclusion reached without looking at the data is COMPLETELY void.

Now comes the important part. If people are so sure that the data will show what they think it will, fine, roll up your sleeves and show your point. Nobody (or almost nobody) would be able to argue then. Or the effort isn't worth the price? Of course it is.

Someone could say, "but oh, data is corrupt'" (in the US I frankly doubt it, it could be, up to a point, here in Brazil). Well, anyway, if you put your hands in the data you would be able to prove, or at the very least show huge inconsistencies, in the data, and that would prove that something "sistemic" is wrong. (by the way, I really think systemic racism or institutional racism are very idiotic concepts. If racism is not coded in words, it is then present on people, period. Get it out of the people, you get it out of the system. If people are not racist, and you show them race injustice, they will act. If they are racist, they will not. It is as simple as that.)

Or, in other words: We can understand the riots as the voice of the unheard, but we cannot rationalize it and use it as a political tool. The ones that can be heard can do better than that, are obliged to do better than that. We cannot forget that part.

As to the bolded above, perhaps I should have chosen the work "complex" over "subtle." I think there are many things to be discussed within this conversation, but I certainly don't want to inundate it with a treatise on race in America. I don't quite know where to start, but if you ask for data, I'm not sure what data you're asking for. How many innocent black people have been killed at the hands of cops? I'm not actually sure that "data" can handle this conversation, but I'd be interested in what data you're hoping for. However, I don't see that the conversation, (on the wider scale, not specifically here,) is "void" without data. I actually think what it most wants is context and nuance.

But I'll start here. You said this:
"I really think systemic racism or institutional racism are very idiotic concepts. If racism is not coded in words, it is then present on people, period. Get it out of the people, you get it out of the system. If people are not racist, and you show them race injustice, they will act. If they are racist, they will not. It is as simple as that."

I completely disagree with you that racism isn't or can't be systemic or institutional. You live in Brazil and I live in the US, but can you deny that laws have never been created that undermine the situation for minorities? That the fact of the US and Brazil both being historically governed by whites/those of European extraction hasn't favored "whites?" Do you deny that your favelas and our ghettos and housing projects, and the banlieus in France are not majority populated by people of African descent? Why is that? Because individuals have either racist attitudes, or they don't? I would argue it's because the structures for who succeeds and who doesn't were set up a long time ago. I call that institutional. As to the question of individual racism, that is it's own complication, and I have an opinion, which I will address separately from here.

You also said:

"Or, in other words: We can understand the riots as the voice of the unheard, but we cannot rationalize it and use it as a political tool. The ones that can be heard can do better than that, are obliged to do better than that. We cannot forget that part."

Again, I disagree. I think you discount rage and outrage. Lives are at stake. Voices are not heard. You ask for people to do "better," but why, when the authorities have not done better? Violence, which has been used, historically and often as a tool against a people, is turned against the system. Historical and institutional violence, (and don't tell me that white cops killing black people for not reason is not an act of institutional violence,) is met with violence. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that it is not unexpected.

 

[calitennis127]

As to the bolded above, perhaps I should have chosen the work "complex" over "subtle." I think there are many things to be discussed within this conversation, but I certainly don't want to inundate it with a treatise on race in America. I don't quite know where to start, but if you ask for data, I'm not sure what data you're asking for. How many innocent black people have been killed at the hands of cops? I'm not actually sure that "data" can handle this conversation, but I'd be interested in what data you're hoping for. However, I don't see that the conversation, (on the wider scale, not specifically here,) is "void" without data. I actually think what it most wants is context and nuance.

What you mean by "context and nuance" is simply a sugarcoating of what the data actually show, which is that black people are no more likely to be assaulted or killed by cops than white people and that in both cases the overall numbers across the country are very low for cops killing civilians/citizens.

I completely disagree with you that racism isn't or can't be systemic or institutional. You live in Brazil and I live in the US, but can you deny that laws have never been created that undermine the situation for minorities?

Which laws are you talking about? We have been living under a leftist regime since the 1960s with antidiscrimination and civil rights laws across the board. Why would blacks today be protesting the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act when that is exactly what the left wanted in the 1960s?

Now if you are talking about segregation before that, ironically the social pathologies that afflict black communities today (family breakdown, crime, drug use, etc.) were much lower during segregation than they are now. But either way, why would blacks today be protesting segregation when it has been a thing of the past for over half a century and we have been living under a big-government left-wing civil rights regime ever since?

Who are they protesting now? The Democratic leaders they have voted in power in city after city for over half a century? Because of the black vote, Baltimore hasn't had a Republican mayor since 1967. Blacks have gotten what they wanted with Democrats constantly in charge. So what system are they protesting exactly? The one they voted for with the Democratic Party reigning as king?

 

[calitennis127]

Not my problem, let's don't get it twisted. The problem of the current racial systemic that has been magnified by the long history.of unarmed black.murdered by the police and their cohorts.

Provide some actual data. I posted a chart the other day showing that in 2017, 2018, and 2019 there were far more whites killed in the USA via police shooting than blacks. I gave hard numbers. All you do is list names as though they are members of your family (now please don't actually list the names of people in your family - I know you will be tempted to, but it isn't germane).

Here is some actual data for you: "In 2018 there were 593,598 interracial violent victimizations (excluding homicide) between blacks and whites last year...Blacks committed 537,204 of those interracial felonies, or 90 percent, and whites committed 56.394 of them, or less than 10 percent." - A Platform of Urban Decline, City Journal, 09/23/2019

In other words, 90% of violent interracial crime between blacks and whites in the U.S. is committed by blacks against whites. Therefore, the idiots protesting in the streets of America have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[calitennis127]

This is a great encapsulation of how the vast majority of black Americans treat virtually any black who strays from the Democratic Party tribe mentality. They are accused of being a sellout who is acting white (just look at Candace Owens, Ben Carson, and Clarence Thomas among others):

 

[the AntiPusher]

Lmao.....you are proving my point yet again. What kind of moronic tool goes on an anonymous message board and constantly talks about and asks about the personal lives of other people? You can't avoid it. What difference does it make if I tell you I'm married, single, or dating? Only you feel the need to go there, and go there repeatedly. I could just as easily ask if you've ever even kissed a girl because your jokes are lame, but I won't go there.

This is utterly stupid, beyond belief.



I recommend that you seek out basic middle school level literacy so you can write out a simple conditional sentence with the right verb tenses.

You have no way of knowing if anyone here is "unhappy" or "miserable." It amazes me that you insist that you do know, or even care. You can't just discuss ideas and leave it at that. Happiness is largely a matter of mood and momentary enjoyment anyway. It comes and it goes.

The bottom line ..you get my Damn point. This isnt English 100 or 101, this isn't Humanities, this isnt Business technical writing..This is just a message board that gives a loser such as yourself a small forum to believe for 20 or 40 sec that someone is listening to your less than 2 percent ass(Mitch Romney's definition). When I respond to your post, it's either while I Detoxing my previous meal or the three minutes between conference calls. I wouldn't give credence to any of your post because it's really second hand news of topics that you have at best "cursory "knowledge. I am positive that you "get off" literally of waiting to decipher the content of my messages. Once my basic premise has reasonated into the delicate membrane of your cranium then your only option is to look for grammaticl errors. However, you get my motherfucking point. The majority of your posts come from plagiarism at the 6th or 7th grade level. The only original thought that ever been created by you usually exist and exits as passed gas. Cali, you are the weak or the lamb. I am your one and only true Shepherd that can lead you to your only refuge, the slaughter house. Comprende, you bloody tosser!

 

[the AntiPusher]

Provide some actual data. I posted a chart the other day showing that in 2017, 2018, and 2019 there were far more whites killed in the USA via police shooting than blacks. I gave hard numbers. All you do is list names as though they are members of your family (now please don't actually list the names of people in your family - I know you will be tempted to, but it isn't germane).

Here is some actual data for you: "In 2018 there were 593,598 interracial violent victimizations (excluding homicide) between blacks and whites last year...Blacks committed 537,204 of those interracial felonies, or 90 percent, and whites committed 56.394 of them, or less than 10 percent." - A Platform of Urban Decline, City Journal, 09/23/2019

In other words, 90% of violent interracial crime between blacks and whites in the U.S. is committed by blacks against whites. Therefore, the idiots protesting in the streets of America have no idea what they are talking about.

No..The protesters are passionately protesting the death of unarmed man and other blacks that was murdered by the police.. Period. It's assholes like you that has historically tried to deflect and change the narrative with some useless data that hasn't been properly vetted or no real account to be fact check for accuracy. Just as you said to me , this is an anonymous message board. You don't give a damn about Blacks or even those token few of your "acceptable token blacks "that are on Fox because they are "safe" negroes.Take your data and send it via a pm to your boy BB who has expressed admiration for your right wing propanda. It took this week for me to pay attention that you have a true right wing ally in him.

 

[britbox]

Interesting piece by Tucker Carlson.



Critical of leaders across the divide, including Pence and Trump.

 

[Federberg]

Interesting piece by Tucker Carlson.



Critical of leaders across the divide, including Pence and Trump.

not particularly. If he had also spent half an hour dissecting why a police officer can feel that he can kill with impunity this would have more weight. I'm tired of these people who seem to think that you can have law and order with no racial justice. As I've said before the rioting can't be condoned but it makes me want to vomit when folks act like this is more important.

 

[mrzz]

As to the bolded above, perhaps I should have chosen the work "complex" over "subtle." I think there are many things to be discussed within this conversation, but I certainly don't want to inundate it with a treatise on race in America. I don't quite know where to start, but if you ask for data, I'm not sure what data you're asking for. How many innocent black people have been killed at the hands of cops? I'm not actually sure that "data" can handle this conversation, but I'd be interested in what data you're hoping for. However, I don't see that the conversation, (on the wider scale, not specifically here,) is "void" without data. I actually think what it most wants is context and nuance.

But I'll start here. You said this:
"I really think systemic racism or institutional racism are very idiotic concepts. If racism is not coded in words, it is then present on people, period. Get it out of the people, you get it out of the system. If people are not racist, and you show them race injustice, they will act. If they are racist, they will not. It is as simple as that."

I completely disagree with you that racism isn't or can't be systemic or institutional. You live in Brazil and I live in the US, but can you deny that laws have never been created that undermine the situation for minorities? That the fact of the US and Brazil both being historically governed by whites/those of European extraction hasn't favored "whites?" Do you deny that your favelas and our ghettos and housing projects, and the banlieus in France are not majority populated by people of African descent? Why is that? Because individuals have either racist attitudes, or they don't? I would argue it's because the structures for who succeeds and who doesn't were set up a long time ago. I call that institutional. As to the question of individual racism, that is it's own complication, and I have an opinion, which I will address separately from here.

You also said:

"Or, in other words: We can understand the riots as the voice of the unheard, but we cannot rationalize it and use it as a political tool. The ones that can be heard can do better than that, are obliged to do better than that. We cannot forget that part."

Again, I disagree. I think you discount rage and outrage. Lives are at stake. Voices are not heard. You ask for people to do "better," but why, when the authorities have not done better? Violence, which has been used, historically and often as a tool against a people, is turned against the system. Historical and institutional violence, (and don't tell me that white cops killing black people for not reason is not an act of institutional violence,) is met with violence. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that it is not unexpected.

I have read your points and will reply calmly at a later point in time. Really really overwhelmed right now.

 

[calitennis127]

No..The protesters are passionately protesting the death of unarmed man and other blacks that was murdered by the police.. Period.

AP, it is obvious to everyone here that you are barely a level above Down Syndrome and you are low IQ. You are a stupid, low-information voter, exactly what the Democratic Party relies on, and your comments repeatedly prove it. For you to be calling what is going on throughout the country right now "protests" shows truly how dumb you actually are. These are not protests but vile outbursts of destruction and criminality.

It's assholes like you that has historically tried to deflect and change the narrative with some useless data that hasn't been properly vetted or no real account to be fact check for accuracy.

The data I cited above on 90% of interracial crime between blacks and whites being black-on-white was "vetted" by the Bureau of Justice Statistics. Those are official government statistics on crime, dumbass. If you're worried about vetting stats, perhaps you should look closer at the clearly questionable COVID death totals.

Just as you said to me , this is an anonymous message board.

Yes, and you're the only one who constantly asks people to come visit him and meet up with him face to face. The irony of you calling someone a loser while repeatedly asking people to meet up with you is apparent to everyone except you evidently.

You don't give a damn about Blacks or even those token few of your "acceptable token blacks "that are on Fox because they are "safe" negroes.

No, but the Democratic leaders who have been running cities that look like 3rd world countries and who have repeatedly been voted into power by black voters really care about blacks. If you think that Democratic leaders care about black voters, let alone know how to assist them, then you really are sad.

Take your data and send it via a pm to your boy BB who has expressed admiration for your right wing propanda.

The word is "propaganda," not "propanda," you subliterate mental defective. And it's not my data.....it's the official crime data of the U.S. government, and it has been conveniently suppressed from the public discourse.

 

[calitennis127]

not particularly. If he had also spent half an hour dissecting why a police officer can feel that he can kill with impunity this would have more weight.

Again, you are a total fool. The police in the U.S. are not going out and randomly killing people. They are not some kind of hit man-assassination squad. You have no data to back up that diagnosis.

I'm tired of these people who seem to think that you can have law and order with no racial justice.

Wtf does that even mean? Laws protect blacks just as they protect whites. There is one standard of justice in the United States. There is not some vague concept of "racial justice," which actually just means partisan revenge or racial revenge.

As I've said before the rioting can't be condoned but it makes me want to vomit when folks act like this is more important.

Again, you're a fucking idiot. There is absolutely no data to back up the belief that black people are wantonly killed by police officers, or even killed at a disproportionate rate.

It makes me vomit when you actually think that one police brutality incident (and such incidents happen to people of all races in this country of 330 million) is more significant than hundreds of stores and businesses going up in flames cross the country, with hundreds of people being assaulted and cities being ruined now for generations. None of that is justified. You want to care about blacks? Then take a look at this, idiot:

For vandals, black-owned businesses not exempt during Atlanta protest

For vandals, black-owned businesses not exempt during Atlanta protest

Sisters Janice and Carolyn Wilbourn peered through the shattered window of their dress shop Saturday...

www.ajc.com

 

[Federberg]

now this is the sort of speech a President should make...

 

[calitennis127]

now this is the sort of speech a President should make...

Yes, it would go a long way to impressing low-IQ, low-information voters that the Democratic Party relies on for its power. But do you think the voters in Baltimore with this academic performance would be able to follow and understand his speech? This is where 99% of the residents vote Democrat:

"In 2016, in 13 of Baltimore’s 39 high schools, not a single student scored proficient on the state’s mathematics exam. In six other high schools, only 1 percent tested proficient in math. In raw numbers, 3,804 Baltimore students took the state’s math test and 14 tested proficient. Citywide, only 15 percent of Baltimore students passed the state’s English test. Money is not the problem. Of the nation’s 100 largest school systems, Baltimore schools rank third in spending per pupil."

 

[calitennis127]

Here are two black storeowners who just had their life's work ruined by "peaceful protesters".....a black-owned store in the Bronx and a black-owned sports bar in Minneapolis, totally demolished. The guy in the second video said he worked his whole life to save to have his own restaurant and the CNN-supported "peaceful protesters" just ruined his life's work. Black Lives Matter indeed - when they serve the interests of the Democratic Party, and never at any other time.

 

[Moxie]

Here are two black storeowners who just had their life's work ruined by "peaceful protesters".....a black-owned store in the Bronx and a black-owned sports bar in Minneapolis, totally demolished. The guy in the second video said he worked his whole life to save to have his own restaurant and the CNN-supported "peaceful protesters" just ruined his life's work. Black Lives Matter indeed - when they serve the interests of the Democratic Party, and never at any other time.

Clearly NOT peaceful protestors. So what is your point with these two examples? That CNN and the DNC are inciting violence?

 

[Moxie]

Yes, it would go a long way to impressing low-IQ, low-information voters that the Democratic Party relies on for its power. But do you think the voters in Baltimore with this academic performance would be able to follow and understand his speech? This is where 99% of the residents vote Democrat:

"In 2016, in 13 of Baltimore’s 39 high schools, not a single student scored proficient on the state’s mathematics exam. In six other high schools, only 1 percent tested proficient in math. In raw numbers, 3,804 Baltimore students took the state’s math test and 14 tested proficient. Citywide, only 15 percent of Baltimore students passed the state’s English test. Money is not the problem. Of the nation’s 100 largest school systems, Baltimore schools rank third in spending per pupil."

OK, just to recap the above: You said that the speech was designed for idiots, but the stupid blacks in Baltimore are still too uneducated to get it. You say a lot of racist shit, but this might take the cake. Also, it didn't make any logical sense...was the speech "low-IQ, low-information," or was it "academic?"

 

[Moxie]

(people seem to be conveniently forgetting that there have been further murders associated with these riots)

I have heard no reports of this, and find nothing from an internet search. Where are you hearing this?