US Politics Thread

[calitennis127]

You can say that I'm disinclined towards Trump, I make no secret of that, but to say that he "weighs all sides before he acts" is rather to deny reality.

No it is not a denial of reality. You are confusing the way he speaks in press conferences with actual policy decisions.

Let's face it, he was going to the brink with Iran, and Congress tried to rein him in.

What the fuck are you talking about? This is exactly what I mean when I talk about the utter and total ignorance and stupidity of the Democratic Party electorate. Almost from top to bottom it consists of nothing but low-information and thoroughly misinformed voters. You clearly have no idea what I am referring to. Congress had absolutely nothing to do with Trump's decision to call off the strike. Nothing. Are you really that poorly informed about such basic issues?

This is from a Politico story last June. This type of deliberation is the antithesis of what you accuse Trump of displaying:

President Donald Trump on Friday confirmed that he called off a retaliatory strike on Iran at the last minute Thursday night, saying he decided that the potential cost of human lives was “not proportionate to shooting down an unmanned drone.”

“We were cocked & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights [sic] when I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it,” Trump wrote in a series of tweets, adding that not only would such an attack have been disproportionate, “I am in no hurry, our Military is rebuilt, new, and ready to go, by far the best in the world.”

Trump says he pulled back Iran strike because of potential death toll

The president said the strike would not have been "proportionate" to Iran's attack on an unmanned drone.

www.politico.com

Even you, I'd think, would admit that he's more reactive than contemplative on things.

Nope, not when it comes to policy decisions. I think you confuse being "contemplative" with being "slow," since Obama always came off like he was recovering from a concussion with how much he stuttered. Trump clearly weighs all sides of a question before he acts.

 

[calitennis127]

You misunderstood me on this, or I didn't express it in a way that was partisan-proof. My point was that he doesn't "feel" pressure from CNN. If he does, he does a good job of faking it. He calls them "fake news," and he certainly doesn't capitulate to them, in any way I've ever seen.

It's not just about CNN. It's about the entire media complex rooted in the Washington Post and the New York Times, which is favored by Big Tech companies such as Apple and Facebook in the stories they select for their users to see. The major media control millions of brains, including those of yourself and other people on this board, through what is pumped into people's cell phones. That dictates the national conversation, as we saw with the Russian collusion hoax.

Speaking of which.....the newly released transcripts included this gem from Obama's DNI and a frequent guest on CNN - none other than James Clapper. This is what he told Congress in 2018:

“I never saw any direct empirical evidence that the Trump campaign or someone in it was plotting [or] conspiring with the Russians to meddle with the election."

In other words, the likes of Clapper and Schiff were all pushing a narrative they knew to be utter nonsense about Trump colluding with Russia. But they knew they could get the masses and sapheads (like you) to buy into it because you believe everything you hear from CNN and the Washington Post. And it worked. It created an illusion of corruption in the Trump administration and it won the Democrats the House in 2018 - all on the basis of lies. And that's why I say the media is basically a branch of government - they can take any story and make a huge portion of the population believe it, which then dictates policy.

He's 24/7 Fox News, parrots what they say, and acts on their positions.

You don't even know what Fox News says or who is on their shows because you never watch it. So please don't pretend like you know anything about what is said on the network. You are just repeating a Democratic Party cliche to sound like you are evenhanded political observer when you're not.

As to the bolded above, there is a reason that they have long been referred to as The Fourth Estate.

The media is far more than "The Fourth Estate" at this point. They are shock troops for the Democratic Party and are in effect their own wing of government. As we saw with the bogus Russia collusion story, they can drive policy simply by creating noise and hysteria, no matter how unfounded it is. They actually have more power than elected officials to a significant degree.

Just because you and Trump have no respect for journalism, it doesn't mean that good journalism doesn't exist, and isn't a voice for the people to shed light on the institutions of government.

Lol.....yes, good journalism does exist. In particular, the investigative journalists at the Daily Caller, The Federalist, the Wall Street Journal, The Hill, and, yes, Fox News did an excellent job covering the Russia collusion hoax. They were all right about it, while the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, etc. were wrong.

Let me repeat: the good journalism regarding the Russia story came from the Fox News side. The bad journalism came from the CNN side. If you appreciate good journalism, you should acknowledge that because it was the likes of Hannity who "shed light on the institutions of government," in particular the astounding level of corruption in Comey's FBI.

Just give Hannity some credit, Moxie. He owned CNN on this issue. Give Hannity some props for doing a far superior job to what CNN did of investigating and actually practicing journalism.

 

[calitennis127]

I'll agree that rather sadly we went for what the machine deemed the "safest" choice, I do believe that Biden has the chops to pull together a much better Administration and smarter group of advisers than what Trump has, or will have going forward.

Lmao.....yes, because someone like John Kerry or Susan Rice had a clue what they were doing. If only we could have government in the hands of such imbeciles again, we would be riding really high!

Our job now is to get out the vote. Period.

Yes indeed - to get out as many dumb, misinformed, low-information voters as possible. That is the Democrats' route to victory in every election. Get the dummies out in force!

 

[the AntiPusher]

If Joe Biden is the best the Democratic Party can pull out of the hat after four years, then they will be complicit in a Trump re-election.

I don't agree..this election will not get hijacked by the Russians and T Rump right wing politics

 

[calitennis127]

I don't agree..this election will not get hijacked by the Russians and T Rump right wing politics

Why are you mentioning the Russians? They have not hijacked any of our previous elections. Why would they hijack this one?

 

[calitennis127]

What is the puzzle you're trying to put together? It seems to me that it's a blame game.

The puzzle of what is actually happening.

Part of what you're using is unverifiable, and I would argue somewhat pointless, youtube videos.

Right, so direct quotes and testimonials from people on the front lines are now "unverifiable." But Christine Blasey Ford making up stories about 30+ years ago was completely trustworthy. Of course, if there were testimonials of nurses complaining about Trump instead of the contemptible behavior of leading NYC health professionals you would be talking them up and saying that we should all listen closely.

You also keep mentioning the Comfort ship that Trump sent to NYC, as if it's all you've got.

This is one of those instances where your arguments come off as though they are inhibited by a prophylactic, or perhaps severe constipation. You very often struggle to understand an argument to its full extent. So, allow me to explain this one again to you.....

The significance of the Comfort ship is that it was a place for Cuomo to send elderly COVID patients instead of nursing homes, where they would be highly likely to infect other elderly people. His decision to do that is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard of in political decision-making.

The notion that Trump had to approve the Javits Center to be converted to a hospital is, as far as I can tell, a false notion. It is a state-run facility. Only Cuomo needed to approve that.

That's not the main point. The main point is that New York's government asked Trump to have the Javits Center provided with PPE and converted to a specific purpose of handling COVID patients. Trump did both. But then Cuomo did not utilize the facility for elderly patients that it was the best place for.

What you've been trying to do for pages is say how the Democratic leadership in NY has done such a poor job here, thereby deflecting blame from The Donald.

That is correct, because it is totally justified. The Democratic leadership of New York has done a horrible job and they are the main reason for the problem there.

You've already negated testing as part of it. Finger-pointing is a pretty useless exercise, compared to trying to get people back to work, and testing is going to be part of that.

Lol.....the push for mass-scale "testing" is entirely silly. Like I said, it will only confirm what we already know: that are millions of mild cases. Numerous doctors have been saying that since March. The mass-scale "testing" will just be a waste of time and resources, and it will be used to justify further shutdowns by the Democrats who want to destroy Trump's economy.

If people are sick, they should get tested. Otherwise, there is no need to turn medical facilities into gigantic football stadium lines of people waiting for hours just to say "hey, I was tested!"

 

[calitennis127]

Obviously what I meant is that they took the kind of approach that I advocated from the start. I have maintained from the beginning that we are talking about a policy (i.e. social distancing) that increasingly is having grave socioeconomic consequences. The question to me has always been whether the social and economic costs of the policy are worth it. As each day passes, I think the answer is more and more clear that it is no. You may be interested in taking a look at the Twitter page of former NYT reporter Alex Berenson. He has lost all of his old friends by being a contrarian but he is making a very strong case that the current policies are unproven and highly questionable.



There is also a new study out of Germany indicating that the current policy of social distancing might be doing more to spread the coronavirus than stop it:

"A virologist from the University of Bonn is using the hard-hit region of Heinsberg, Germany, as a living laboratory to study the coronavirus.

Professor Hendrik Streeck is leading a study on the region, which has been dubbed "Germany's Wuhan" because of its large number of coronavirus cases.

Heinsberg has been under strict lockdown, and has a peculiar series of characteristics that make it rife for examination — it has a proportionately high number of cases for the country, but a disproportionately low death rate from the disease.

Streeck and his team are attempting to root out the sources of infection by studying residents of the northwestern region. Speaking to press on Tuesday, he said most cases of coronavirus in Heinsberg originated from people being close together for a significant period of time, and not from touching surfaces with virus particles on them. "

Germany's had more than 113,000 coronavirus cases, but fewer than 3,000 deaths. Scientists are hoping to unlock why.

Heinsberg has been called "Germany's Wuhan" because of its high number of coronavirus cases.

www.businessinsider.com

Excellent post above by yours truly on April 15th, citing a study from Professor Hendrik Streeck at the University of Bonn. It argued that social distancing may be doing more to spread the coronavirus than stop it. It's a wonder that BwokenFuckFace hasn't referred back to this and many other completely on-point posts I made, given that he likes to scroll back and point to what I said in the past. This was yet another terrifically on-point post.

Professor Streeck's conclusions seem to have been confirmed by the data revealed by Governor Meatball in New York two days ago.....this is a strong indication that not only are the extended lockdowns dumb and unscientific, but they may actually be entirely counterproductive.....

'Shocking’: 66% of new coronavirus patients in N.Y. stayed home: Cuomo
MAY 06, 2020

‘Shocking’: 66% of new coronavirus patients in N.Y. stayed home: Cuomo

ALBANY — The majority of recently hospitalized coronavirus patients in New York are people who have followed the precaution of staying home, Gov. Cuomo said Wednesday. The governor said it wa…

www.nydailynews.com

 

[Federberg]

I'll agree that rather sadly we went for what the machine deemed the "safest" choice, I do believe that Biden has the chops to pull together a much better Administration and smarter group of advisers than what Trump has, or will have going forward. We know why he's presumed to be electable...because we're up against a dug-in conservative onslaught and everyone's afraid that progressives/a woman won't win the middle ground, suburban women, and, frankly, conservative minorities. Joe's job is to sell himself. Our job now is to get out the vote. Period.

I think the election will be about Trump. Biden is fortunate. The more Trump tries to fling crap his way, the more it will look like deflection. Trump's hands are really tied given that this will be a truncated election. He might take the p1ss out of Biden being stuck in a basement, but we'll probably look back at it as a genius move. Think about it, what other candidate will be able to hide himself away for as long as Biden likely will be able to without damage to name recognition. As weak as I think that Biden is, there might literally be no one else capable of being an effective foil in this election. And that's literally all he has to do. As I said before, this election is a referendum on Trump and the signs are that he will lose, despite what some like to think the GOP has lost every election of significance since 2016 and the losses keep getting worse. I see no evidence that a man who won by a mere 70,000 votes is positioned to hold on. Quite the contrary...

 

[calitennis127]

Truly shocking that this could ever happen to science-denying cult-following morons.

Wow....."this post aged like fine wine" (it was odd for a second to feel as corny as Broken is by saying that). It turns out that the science is far more on the side of those who have wanted to end the lockdowns. In addition to numerous doctors and medical professionals across the USA calling for an end to the lockdowns in recent weeks, we now have this news out of New York, showing that the lockdowns haven't done anything to spread the majority of the spread.

Another example of Broken projecting.....he is the science and data-denying moron who clings to his little white leftist-LGBT cult. He is one of those people in a non-Western country who thinks that touting gay rights and promoting LGBT makes him sound educated. It's funny how much of an inferiority complex he has toward white European leftists. He wants to be just like them, like a little kid trying to be like Michael Jordan in the early 90s.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it, you clueless science-averse dickhead.....and contrast New York's mismanagement with the leadership of the very intelligent Republican governor of Florida.

'Shocking’: 66% of new coronavirus patients in N.Y. stayed home: Cuomo
MAY 06, 2020

‘Shocking’: 66% of new coronavirus patients in N.Y. stayed home: Cuomo

ALBANY — The majority of recently hospitalized coronavirus patients in New York are people who have followed the precaution of staying home, Gov. Cuomo said Wednesday. The governor said it wa…

www.nydailynews.com

Florida emerges as bright spot in COVID-19 fight
05/07/20

Florida emerges as bright spot in COVID-19 fight

ORLANDO, Fla. — Florida has reported 37,439 positive coronavirus cases and 1,471 deaths, ranking it eighth in the U.S. for the number of confirmed cases despite being the nation’s third most popula…

thehill.com

 

[calitennis127]

As I said before, this election is a referendum on Trump and the signs are that he will lose, despite what some like to think the GOP has lost every election of significance since 2016 and the losses keep getting worse. I see no evidence that a man who won by a mere 70,000 votes is positioned to hold on. Quite the contrary...

Well the main reason the Democrats took the House in 2018, Federberg, was that the utterly vile and contemptible Mueller investigative team harassed the Trump administration and gave the media enough fodder to create the illusion that there was major corruption in the Trump administration. The media succeeded because of suckers like you. But do you feel good about how easily you were duped? The likes of Clapper - as we just found out yesterday from the release of the Russia-collusion-related transcripts - never thought Trump actually colluded with Russia. They just fed that narrative to the press to create hysteria and animus.

How does it feel to know that you were completely duped by that conspiracy theory/lie?

 

[Federberg]

Well the main reason the Democrats took the House in 2018, Federberg, was that the utterly vile and contemptible Mueller investigative team harassed the Trump administration and gave the media enough fodder to create the illusion that there was major corruption in the Trump administration. The media succeeded because of suckers like you. But do you feel good about how easily you were duped? The likes of Clapper - as we just found out yesterday from the release of the Russia-collusion-related transcripts - never thought Trump actually colluded with Russia. They just fed that narrative to the press to create hysteria and animus.

How does it feel to know that you were completely duped by that conspiracy theory/lie?

keep deluding yourself. GOP got run over because of Obamacare

 

[calitennis127]

keep deluding yourself. GOP got run over because of Obamacare

LOL.....as I have said many times, for as much effort as you put into understanding American politics, the results of that effort are pretty scant. The Republicans did not even repeal Obamacare (because of McCain’s no vote). Healthcare was not the main reason that the Democrats won the midterms.

Of course, you don’t want to discuss the embarrassing transcripts that were just released and how ridiculous they make anyone who believed in the Russian collusion conspiracy theory look. I understand though.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Why are you mentioning the Russians? They have not hijacked any of our previous elections. Why would they hijack this one?

Now You have went from the sublime to the total ridiculous..You KNOW DAMN WELL WHAT HAPPENED in 2016..Come on..if we are gonna have a discussion let's be transparent 100 percent otherwise this is Just Right vs Left

 

[britbox]

Now You have went from the sublime to the total ridiculous..You KNOW DAMN WELL WHAT HAPPENED in 2016..Come on..if we are gonna have a discussion let's be transparent 100 percent otherwise this is Just Right vs Left

Was it ever anything else?

The truth? Your truth? That's whatever you determine it to be. The truth is simply an interpretation of events. I remember when all those climbers perished on K2 a few years ago... the survivors all had different "truths" on what had happened.

 

[Jelenafan]

If Joe Biden is the best the Democratic Party can pull out of the hat after four years, then they will be complicit in a Trump re-election.

Brittbox, do you think any of the states HRC won in 2016 are in play this year?

Meanwhile, let's look at some of these swing states that Trump won in 2016:

Arizona
Wisconsin
Michigan
North Carolina
Ohio
Texas
Florida
Pennsylvania

The economy, which was the POTUS ace, is free falling and at this point nobody expects the numbers to recover by Sept/Oct. Putting that in the context, what makes you think Biden wouldn't be competitive in any of these states? As of now Biden leads in all of them (Pennsylvania consistently by more than 5%) except for NC where he trails by less than one percentage point. The fact that he leads polls in Texas is telling.

This election is a referendum on Trump. Biden is a flawed candidate, but quite frankly, to call any Presidential candidate flawed is like saying the Ocean is wet. There was a visceral antipathy to HRC in some corners that I don't see with Biden.

Win or lose, it's on Trump. To call Biden a corrupt, sexist, incompetent politician, well OK, but it works both ways to lower the standard. Many swing voters held their noses and voted for Trump in 2016, so it's not as if voters are waiting for this ideal perfect candidate. It boils down to who do they think will screw things up less, and Trump's other ace, voter's antipathy toward regulation of business/industry has to be weighed against more Government regulation/spending obviously needed in some fields of the economy/healthcare, etc.

I get Trump's strategy, he needs the economy to bounce back even slightly , but the problem is the COVID crisis doesn't want to go away, so Biden and everything else is pushed to the periphery of the news. Normally that's bad for a challenging candidate, but in this case, having the crisis front and center just keeps the focus on POTUS performance.

If Biden wins Pennsylvania, how many more swing states does he need?

 

[Federberg]

Brittbox, do you think any of the states HRC won in 2016 are in play this year?

Meanwhile, let's look at some of these swing states that Trump won in 2016:

Arizona
Wisconsin
Michigan
North Carolina
Ohio
Texas
Florida
Pennsylvania

The economy, which was the POTUS ace, is free falling and at this point nobody expects the numbers to recover by Sept/Oct. Putting that in the context, what makes you think Biden wouldn't be competitive in any of these states? As of now Biden leads in all of them (Pennsylvania consistently by more than 5%) except for NC where he trails by less than one percentage point. The fact that he leads polls in Texas is telling.

This election is a referendum on Trump. Biden is a flawed candidate, but quite frankly, to call any Presidential candidate flawed is like saying the Ocean is wet. There was a visceral antipathy to HRC in some corners that I don't see with Biden.

Win or lose, it's on Trump. To call Biden a corrupt, sexist, incompetent politician, well OK, but it works both ways to lower the standard. Many swing voters held their noses and voted for Trump in 2016, so it's not as if voters are waiting for this ideal perfect candidate. It boils down to who do they think will screw things up less, and Trump's other ace, voter's antipathy toward regulation of business/industry has to be weighed against more Government regulation/spending obviously needed in some fields of the economy/healthcare, etc.

I get Trump's strategy, he needs the economy to bounce back even slightly , but the problem is the COVID crisis doesn't want to go away, so Biden and everything else is pushed to the periphery of the news. Normally that's bad for a challenging candidate, but in this case, having the crisis front and center just keeps the focus on POTUS performance.

If Biden wins Pennsylvania, how many more swing states does he need?

Totally agree with you. The focus on Biden's qualities as a candidate totally misses the point. This is not about Biden. This election will be about Trump. Yes he'll try to turn the focus on Biden, but that ain't gonna work this time. If it had just been about Ukraine and Mueller there might have been a chance. But the employment numbers came out today. 14+% the highest since the Great Depression, it'll take years to get it back down towards 5%. Add on top of that the fact that people are scared about their mortality and their finances. Folks are absolutely kidding themselves if they think Biden's quality as a candidate is going to have much relevance in the face of that. It took Comey and a historically polarising candidate for Trump to win by the skin of his teeth. He's in for the mother of all struggles in November

 

[britbox]

^ 6 months is a long time in politics. Joe Biden can't hide in his basement forever. He's a hapless candidate. The Democrats only have to put up a media-savvy good communicator with some energy and a half credible plan and they win. Instead, they put a guy who wouldn't look out of place as an extra in the Walking Dead.

Trump will likely have a torrid 3 months... but that still gives the GOP plenty of time before the election.

 

[Federberg]

^ 6 months is a long time in politics. Joe Biden can't hide in his basement forever. He's a hapless candidate. The Democrats only have to put up a media-savvy good communicator with some energy and a half credible plan and they win. Instead, they put a guy who wouldn't look out of place as an extra in the Walking Dead.

Trump will likely have a torrid 3 months... but that still gives the GOP plenty of time before the election.

lol! If you think the economy, pandemic and healthcare generally aren’t big issues in 6 months. Let’s stipulate that both are sub optimal candidates (although this trope about Biden being senile is getting old quickly, if his opposition is based on that then you are seriously lowering the bar and I’m betting he’ll pass and gain an advantage because of lowered expectations).

 

[britbox]

lol! If you think the economy, pandemic and healthcare generally aren’t big issues in 6 months. Let’s stipulate that both are sub optimal candidates (although this trope about Biden being senile is getting old quickly, if his opposition is based on that then you are seriously lowering the bar and I’m betting he’ll pass and gain an advantage because of lowered expectations).

Did I say that? No.

The election will be about recovery and the messaging behind it. On a personal level, Biden will be trashed as a candidate.

Echo-chamber democrats have consistently mocked Trump's chances at every turn. You never learn.

 

[Federberg]

Did I say that? No.

The election will be about recovery and the messaging behind it. On a personal level, Biden will be trashed as a candidate.

Echo-chamber democrats have consistently mocked Trump's chances at every turn. You never learn.

Seems you implied it by saying that things will be different in 3 months. This isn’t Mueller or Ukraine this actually affects people. Not so easy to forget. Try to characterise me as a Democrat if it makes you feel better All I’ve said is that it’s going to be incredibly tough for Trump. You’re the one mocking Bidens chances. Great projecting