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Moxie

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hmmmm... if Moxie's quote is right then I'm not sure what the issue is. She's right. It's on Dem voters not Biden. Their own self righteousness is the issue that seems to bite them on the behind. I've said it before, the left are vegetarians and the right carnivores. I respect the unapologetic nature of how the right goes about it's business, it's so.... me :) I just don't understand the preeminence of cultural rather than economic self interest that enables them (the right) to sustain their positions
I'm going to disagree with your characterizations. What you call "self-righteousness" we prefer to think of as standing rather harder on our principles than those on the right, which you praise for being "unapologetic." I would have said leaning more towards the "cynical and hypocritical." This is my point to your bolded above, and I think you're correct...you don't understand it. The Republicans, back in Reagan's day, made a choice to politicize the evangelical Christians and take up their social positions in order to garner the votes for the conservative economic ones like the bolstering of big business and the consolidating of wealth in the hands of the few so beloved of the Republican politcal machine. They even exploit the tendency of this evangelical base to be wary of science, due to the pesky evolution "theory," to deny climate change in order that big businesses can continue to abuse the environment for their own gain. But that marriage-made-in-hell was a festering pustule that finally spewed forth Trump, who finally exposed that false-piety for the naked power grab it was and is.

If god-fearing Christians can ignore that they've chosen a womanizing, thrice-married atheist huckster as their President, for the sake of the Supreme Court, we Democrats can hold our noses and vote for Joe Biden, for our own reasons.
 

Moxie

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@Murat Baslamisli: It is about the voters, not about Biden. I wasn't trying to "turn things around" on you to be clever or trip you up, but I do think your position on Biden is hypocritical. And irrelevant. You distill an important movement in which (primarily, but not exclusively) women have exposed endemic sexual harrassment in our society to men being forced to "roll over." Aside from the fact that that's perhaps an unfortunate choice of phrase, I'm telling you that it's women that are going to take (another) one on the chin and vote for Biden, in order to preserve our greater self-interest. Despite Federberg's characterization, I am a full-on red meat Democrat and I will do all I can to get Biden elected, if he's our candidate.

If you're in the mood for a more nuanced read about the complications of these choices and calculations for women, I suggest this. I don't agree with the opinions of all the women in the article, just for clarity:

 

calitennis127

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The fact that people die without being tested is also a failure of our tragic lack of testing. Try to get around that one. You keep trying to make little of it, either to be less-wrong or save Donald Trump, I'm not sure which. No, the whole country isn't as affected as New York is, but people are fucking dying here, and they're not all old.

But a huge portion of them are old, and that falls on Governor Meatball (i.e. Andrew Cuomo) for being an idiot. The fact is, you simply do not want to put the blame in this case where it deserves to be placed, which is on the party leadership in the state of New York. And that is because they are members of your church (i.e. the Democratic Party), which you ever so loyally cling to. The New York Post reported this week that on March 25th Cuomo issued an executive order that forced nursing homes to "admit and readmit patients who tested positive for the coronavirus."

How in the world are you going to blame Trump for that idiotic decision by Governor Meatball? If a Republican governor did this, you would be slamming him.

Andrew Cuomo’s coronavirus nursing home policy proves tragic: Goodwin

By Michael Goodwin
April 21, 2020

 

calitennis127

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It really is funny how Moxie treats the Democratic leadership of New York with such kid gloves, while castigating Trump.

This was Cuomo on March 2nd. Imagine if Trump or a Republican governor said this:

"Excuse our arrogance as New Yorkers, I speak for the mayor also on this one, we think we have the best healthcare system on the planet right here in New York. So, when you're saying what happened in other countries versus what happened here, we don't even think it's going to be as bad as it was in other countries. We are fully coordinated, we are fully mobilized."

Because Cuomo is a Democrat and Moxie is severely prejudiced toward Democrats, she hears something like that and tries with all her being to see the best in such a comment, knowing full well that if a Republican said it she would be posting it and holding it up as an example of "poor leadership."

 

Murat Baslamisli

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@Murat Baslamisli: It is about the voters, not about Biden. I wasn't trying to "turn things around" on you to be clever or trip you up, but I do think your position on Biden is hypocritical. And irrelevant. You distill an important movement in which (primarily, but not exclusively) women have exposed endemic sexual harrassment in our society to men being forced to "roll over." Aside from the fact that that's perhaps an unfortunate choice of phrase, I'm telling you that it's women that are going to take (another) one on the chin and vote for Biden, in order to preserve our greater self-interest. Despite Federberg's characterization, I am a full-on red meat Democrat and I will do all I can to get Biden elected, if he's our candidate.

If you're in the mood for a more nuanced read about the complications of these choices and calculations for women, I suggest this. I don't agree with the opinions of all the women in the article, just for clarity:


My position on this issue, from the very first post is the opposite of hypocritical and for the life of me I don't understand why you cannot see it. So I will explain this as best as I can again. Here is My position:
*When a woman says she has been sexually assaulted, regardless of the tribe of the alleged perp, the rule of law must be followed. The alleged perp gets sued, you go to court, all evidence gets presented, a decision gets reached. The alleged perp is innocent until proven otherwise. This is true for Biden, Trump, you or me. The identity of the alleged perp has no relevance to the proceedings.
Please explain my hypocrisy here. I am really not getting it.

But here is Biden's position: If the alleged perp is not from my tribe, he is guilty until proven innocent. I will believe the accuser first . But if I am the alleged perp, I require the rule of law. You do not recognize the hypocrisy here?

Moxie, this really is not complicated.

As far as the relevancy of this...well, it is up to you. To me, it is super relevant because the leftist part of the democratic party wants to make every thing about identity and hierarchy of victimhood. I don't like that and I know for a fact it will lead to disaster because the far right will play that game too and they will play to win and that's when shit's going to hit the fan.
 

Moxie

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Wow, you're kicking it old school with the ethnic stereotypes, right? "Governor Meatball?" I treat the Democratic leadership in NY with kid gloves? I believe I said on the last page that they've made mistakes, both di Blasio and Cuomo. (And Pelosi, to be clear.) What I also said is that they didn't make it about themselves, which Trump has done. Let me say again, because it bears repeating: Trump has weaponized narcissism.

As I've mentioned before, and you keep ignoring, the leader of this country is President Trump. You can go after mayors and governors for their lack of leadership, and choices made. But let's be real. This IS a national crisis, and where is the leadership from the top? Where is the address from the Oval Office? Why do grocery stores and small businesses and restaurants keep having to figure it out for themselves? And if not Trump, why not Pence...I thought he was in charge of the COVID-19 task force? Trump...and you...are mad because this is potentially screwing up the election. Never mind the other ramifications.
 

Moxie

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My position on this issue, from the very first post is the opposite of hypocritical and for the life of me I don't understand why you cannot see it. So I will explain this as best as I can again. Here is My position:
*When a woman says she has been sexually assaulted, regardless of the tribe of the alleged perp, the rule of law must be followed. The alleged perp gets sued, you go to court, all evidence gets presented, a decision gets reached. The alleged perp is innocent until proven otherwise. This is true for Biden, Trump, you or me. The identity of the alleged perp has no relevance to the proceedings.
Please explain my hypocrisy here. I am really not getting it.

Your hypocrisy is calling Biden out on hypocrisy when he defended himself.
But here is Biden's position: If the alleged perp is not from my tribe, he is guilty until proven innocent. I will believe the accuser first . But if I am the alleged perp, I require the rule of law. You do not recognize the hypocrisy here?
This is where I think your argument falls down. You are naming "Biden's position" to be what you perceive as the position of the entire MeToo movement, and I don't even think you have that correct. The movement has been about giving voice to the heretofore voiceless. Shining light on an issue. If you've interpreted that as an accusation being the end of discussion, I don't think you've been paying attention.

As far as the relevancy of this...well, it is up to you. To me, it is super relevant because the leftist part of the democratic party wants to make every thing about identity and hierarchy of victimhood. I don't like that and I know for a fact it will lead to disaster because the far right will play that game too and they will play to win and that's when shit's going to hit the fan.

Again, I think you have this entirely wrong. To my mind, the phrase "hierachy of victimhood" sounds not only mean, but a bit put-out. You've already acted like men are being treated as victims, so let's not pretend it only comes from one side. As far as making it about "identity," I really don't even know why that's a problem. Do you have a problem with gay rights issues, women's issues, the issues of people of color? Do you not recognize that some minority groups in our society need to have their voices heard? You always act like identity-driven movements are a bad thing. And what do you say we take out the politically loaded term "identity politics," and I just ask you if think it's wrong that minority groups agitate for their own interests?
 
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calitennis127

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Meacham was very interesting vis-a-vis Trump. He said it was like having the Nixon tapes in real time.

What is it with you and Nixon? Why do you dislike Nixon so much? He was considered a liberal/moderate Republican and fully supported the Civil Rights movement. He was also close friends with Martin Luther King Sr. I suppose you just hate Nixon because he was a leading anti-Communist.

But that Trump made it about himself, about his being right or wrong, and the Democrats creating a "hoax" if you will, to bring him down.

Trump sent a hospital ship to New York with personnel. He also authorized and ordered for the conversion of the Javits Center into a hospital and had a plethora of supplies sent to it (masks, gowns, gloves, etc.). He has acted with urgency, regardless of what words he may have used to disrupt your Obama-craving mental state.

And when Trump said that the Democrats have made a hoax of it to bring him down, he is 100% right. That is exactly what they are doing. They are trying to create an economic disaster that they can blame on Trump. That is exactly what the governors of Oregon, Nevada, and Michigan, among others, are doing.

He used the phrase that Trump has "weaponized narcissism," which I thought was brilliant.

Well it's not really brilliant at all. What Meacham is whining about is that Trump defends himself from incessant media attacks at every press conference and from most newspaper editorial pages. If defending yourself against a non-stop media onslaught makes one a narcissist, then yes, Trump is a narcissist, but there is no shame in it.

Furthermore, the irony of this charge is hilarious, coming from you. Apparently it is narcissistic for Trump to defend his coronavirus response, but it's not at all narcissistic for Democratic leaders, government employees, and media personalities whose incomes are not impacted by the government shutdowns to completely dismiss the concerns and difficulties of small business owners across the country whose livelihoods are being hammered. That's not narcissistic at all. Nope, not at all.

Maybe you should consider the possibility that Meachem is an unoriginal leech on the general media culture and his phrase is as boneheaded as the current shutdown policies.
 
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calitennis127

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Murat, Moxie's hypocrisy (and the hypocrisy of the Democratic Party generally) on the issue of the charges against Biden is so pitiful that I'm not sure it even warrants a response. The way they are treating Biden as compared to the vitriolic, self-righteous, imbalanced, venomous, and intemperate attacks on Kavanaugh is laughable.

I'll just offer this gem as an example.....if idiot Joe still believes the following, then he really has his work cut for him in proving himself innocent.

Joe Biden: Women’s Claims Of Sexual Assault Should Be Presumed To Be True
09/18/2018 05:52 am ET

 

calitennis127

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Wow, you're kicking it old school with the ethnic stereotypes, right? "Governor Meatball?"

I actually wasn't thinking of it that way, except for the fact that Cuomo in his rambling press conference monologues that tickle the emotional titties of NY women likes telling stories about Italian family dinners. That said, even if I was engaging in ethnic stereotyping, not only is it harmless, but it's exactly what Obama did when he said on 60 Minutes that no one in Chicago questioned his blackness when he went to barber shops or played basketball in Chicago. I highly doubt that you ever had a problem with Obama saying such things.

And, btw, I am partially of Italian extraction, so aren't I allowed to make an Italian joke? After all, I have never heard you or any white Democrat condemn rappers for playfully using the n-word all the time. Why can't Italians make a joke about each other once in a while?

Well, I know the answer. But I'll let you say it anyway.

I treat the Democratic leadership in NY with kid gloves?

Yes, you do. Even though you are now conceding that De Blasio and Cuomo "made mistakes," you are still clearly putting most of the blame for the New York debacle on Trump - even though he has sent a plethora of supplies (masks, gloves, gowns) and personnel and even a hospital ship, while also authorizing the construction of a hospital at the Javits Center. Apparently that is not enough for you, because you now want him, as president, to personally cure every patient in New York and stand outside the nursing homes with military personnel to stop Cuomo from idiotically moving COVID patients into nursing homes.

I believe I said on the last page that they've made mistakes, both di Blasio and Cuomo. (And Pelosi, to be clear.)

What is it with you and Broken lately that you can't spell names? It's "De Blasio," not "di Blasio." You also recently spelled "Pence" as "Pense." And Broken spelled Obama's first name with 2 r's as Barrack. Are you guys okay? I thought Trump was the one who misspelled words on Twitter, not you guys.

What I also said is that they didn't make it about themselves, which Trump has done.

Yeah, Governor Meatball rambling on and on about Italian family dinners and how the boyfriends of his daughters are evaluated really shows how he is keeping his eye on the goal of battling coronavirus and not at all making it about himself. His recent comment that he's "available" for women in New York who have fallen in love with his bullshit monologues also wasn't about himself at all. He is just a humanitarian, whose mistakes are made out of the goodness of his heart as he tries to save dying COVID patients.

In all seriousness, how do you talk yourself into believing this much bullshit?

Let me say again, because it bears repeating: Trump has weaponized narcissism.

That really isn't as profound a phrase as you are trying to make it out be.

Let me say again, because it bears reapeating: THAT REALLY ISN'T AS PROFOUND A PHRASE AS YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE IT OUT TO BE.

As I've mentioned before, and you keep ignoring, the leader of this country is President Trump. You can go after mayors and governors for their lack of leadership, and choices made. But let's be real. This IS a national crisis, and where is the leadership from the top?

Oh please, the White House has put out numerous guidelines for the country to follow, such as "15 Days to Stop the Spread." There have been conference calls with governors on the phases of re-opening. There have been dozens of outreach efforts to assist all the governors. You are talking utter nonsense.

Where is the address from the Oval Office?

Again, you have to be kidding. If Trump gave a speech, there is no chance that you would give him any credit for it. Even after all your years of saying that the Iraq war was a mistake, you have never once given Trump credit for staying out of Middle East wars and taking a noninterventionist stance. Like the Lebanese Elmer, you are an anti-Trump bigot and there is no way that you would give Trump any credit for a speech.

I would also remind you that Trump gave a speech after the travel ban on European countries was announced and he was mostly ridiculed and mocked for it. There is no chance that you would give him any credit if he were to give one right now.

What you should be more focused on is that Trump has acted with great dispatch in assisting the various states. Talk is cheap, action is what counts in these situations. And he has been very diligent.

Why do grocery stores and small businesses and restaurants keep having to figure it out for themselves?

Because Pelosi held up stimulus legislation and because Democratic governors are not allowing these places to function normally. That's why.

Trump...and you...are mad because this is potentially screwing up the election. Never mind the other ramifications.

You have it backwards honey.....many of the Democrats want the economy to tank to hurt Trump's re-election chances. There is no way the Democratic governors would still be imposing these lockdowns if a Democrat was president and they wanted him re-elected.
 

the AntiPusher

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Murat, Moxie's hypocrisy (and the hypocrisy of the Democratic Party generally) on the issue of the charges against Biden is so pitiful that I'm not sure it even warrants a response. The way they are treating Biden as compared to the vitriolic, self-righteous, imbalanced, venomous, and intemperate attacks on Kavanaugh is laughable.

I'll just offer this gem as an example.....if idiot Joe still believes the following, then he really has his work cut for him in proving himself innocent.

Joe Biden: Women’s Claims Of Sexual Assault Should Be Presumed To Be True
09/18/2018 05:52 am ET

This aledge incident occurred in the 90's..Is that correct. So this woman felt compelled to bring it to the public now instead of pre or during or really post Obama years.. hmmmnn something about this lack of a better adjective smells fishy that she decided now that he is the Democratic candidate for President.
 

calitennis127

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He talks over and beyond his medical experts to the point of saying things that frighten people and have made his team having him stop holding daily briefings, because they're so disruptive.

This is a great example of how Moxie treats Trump with the harshest possible judgment while treating the New York Democrats with kid gloves.

First of all - Trump has not been talking over the medical experts at daily briefings. Wtf are you talking about? There have been numerous times where a reporter asked a medical question and he deferred to either Fauci, Birx, or another specialist and allowed them to walk to the podium. You are talking utter nonsense.

But if you do want to talk about disregarding medical experts, how about the fact that in November 2015 the New York State Department of Health issued a report to Governor Cuomo stating "...during a severe influenza pandemic, there is likely to be a projected shortfall of ventilators (about 15,783) during peak week demand"?

If you want to blame anyone, blame Governor Meatball for disregarding that report.

But you won't, because you treat the New York Democrats with kid gloves and ultimately want to blame Trump for the problem.
 

calitennis127

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This aledge incident occurred in the 90's..Is that correct. So this woman felt compelled to bring it to the public now instead of pre or during or really post Obama years.. hmmmnn something about this lack of a better adjective smells fishy that she decided now that he is the Democratic candidate for President.


Those are fair points, but I highly doubt that you said the same about the allegations against Trump in 2016 or Kavanaugh in 2018.

The big difference here is between the Biden situation now and the Kavanaugh situation in 2018.....there was no corroboration to the charges against Kavanaugh in 2018 whereas there are numerous people backing up Reade's claims now. She has what Christine Blasey Ford did not.....which was support from others who backed up her claims.

Also, have you seen the 1993 Larry King clip of Tara Reade's mother calling in to say that her daughter had been assaulted? It's hard to look past that unless you are a true-believing Democrat who must stay loyal to the Democratic Party cult.
 

calitennis127

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And not that it matters, but I've never called myself an atheist...precisely because it doesn't matter. Not believing in the books of monotheistic religions describing a vengeful God and stories that a 4 year old wouldn't believe

Like the theory that Donald Trump's campaign colluded with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 election? That was a completely stupid notion that is falling apart more and more each day, yet I don't see you calling out any of the people who so fervently believed in it on this board (most notably Federberg). At least many of the stories of the Old Testament - which it is silly to treat as modern journalistic accounts as you do - have some archaeological and historical basis. The idea that Trump colluded with Russia was nothing more than a superstition and left-wing conspiracy theory.

As I have said before, there is so much misinformation and so many misconceptions in every one of Broken's posts that it would take 10 hours to adequately respond to everything he types.

But I will say this.....the only thing that Broken gets partially right in his overall worldview is his assessment of U.S. foreign policy, which extends critically to both parties (not just Republicans). Other than that, he is indistinguishable from every standard idiot white Democrat in the United States. And he should not be given too much credit for his assessment of U.S. foreign policy either, since he lives in the Middle East so he gets to see things up close. He got to see up close, for example, how the Obama administration and Hillary's State Department armed and equipped head-chopping fanatics such as Al Nusra in Syria while John fuckface McCain took pictures with them. But if Broken was not in the Middle East to see that and was instead in the United States, he would have his head up his ass like Moxie and every other white leftist in the USA who adores Obama and Hillary and thinks they can do no wrong.
 

Murat Baslamisli

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Your hypocrisy is calling Biden out on hypocrisy when he defended himself.

This is where I think your argument falls down. You are naming "Biden's position" to be what you perceive as the position of the entire MeToo movement, and I don't even think you have that correct. The movement has been about giving voice to the heretofore voiceless. Shining light on an issue. If you've interpreted that as an accusation being the end of discussion, I don't think you've been paying attention.



Again, I think you have this entirely wrong. To my mind, the phrase "hierachy of victimhood" sounds not only mean, but a bit put-out. You've already acted like men are being treated as victims, so let's not pretend it only comes from one side. As far as making it about "identity," I really don't even know why that's a problem. Do you have a problem with gay rights issues, women's issues, the issues of people of color? Do you not recognize that some minority groups in our society need to have their voices heard? You always act like identity-driven movements are a bad thing. And what do you say we take out the politically loaded term "identity politics," and I just ask you if think it's wrong that minority groups agitate for their own interests?

Nope, you are not getting it at all. Read my very first post on the subject. What did I say? I said "His current position is correct of course. It took us a long time to set up this system where we believe in due process and "innocent until proven otherwise". I never blamed Biden for defending himself. I blamed him for not giving the others the same right ! It is clear as day ! I know at this point you are doing this because you have nowhere to go.

As far as your other stuff, you are just putting words in my mouth. "Due process" does not mean men are being treated as victims. I have ZERO victimhood mentality and zero patience for people who live their life looking for something or someone to blame. That is for the leftists. And trust me , the victimhood mentality is what keeps the leftists going. That's what they sell.

You are asking if I have a problem with minority issues, gay issues, etc...Nope, Zero problem. I have a problem with over corrections.

Example. I personally believe every trans person has to be respected and treated with dignity. Over correction? Hormone therapy for 9 year old kids. Male born wrestlers beating the shit out of biological woman where college scholarships are on the line.

Example: I respect every color, creed, religion with respect . Over correction? Because I am white, male, hetero, I do not have a say about other people's issues. That is a leftist position that I cannot accept. in just 50 short years, Martin Luther King's words have been turned upside down by leftists college professors who teach whiteness studies ! and now the content of your character is not important at all, it is the color of your skin that matters. Sad sad state of affairs.

Example: Gay issues: Either you were born that way or became one later, you have every right to what straight people have. Over correction? Politicizing gayness, to a point where because a gay person is a conservative and not a part of the leftist agenda, his "gayness" is in question and he is referred to as "a person that likes to sleep with other man and confusing it with being gay" ! This has happened.

What you seem to fail to understand or accept is that identity politics disregard the individual. It makes you sacrifice yourself, your soul, for the sake of the group. When you play that game, you only see me as a white person who is straight, etc. You have zero interest in me . You don't know me. You don't care to know me. You just feel comfortable in the knowledge that I am white , straight so I must be a part of the tyrannical patriarchy and I must have "white privilege" and almost all of the world's problems can be found in my existence. The fact that I was seriously wondering about my white privilege years back when I was cleaning the shit tank of a interstate Greyhound bus in -30 degrees celcius and having a hard time feeling my fingers does not interest you because hey, I am white. THAT explains everything, right? That is the post modernist neo marxist leftist position of the times. A big part of the democratic party and an actual majority of college professors, particularly in humanities have bought into this world view. I hate it with passion !

We talked about intersectionality before but that went nowhere either. You think it is a good think. I think it is a very dangerous think. I have cited historical facts before. Did not work. Agree to disagree and leave it at that. We cannot have a common ground in these discussions because you insist on seeing groups , I insist in seeing individuals. I see absolutely zero similarities in the lives, wants and needs of Anderson Cooper and the gay hooker selling his body on a street corner. Their "gayness" is not enough for me to classify them both in the same category. They are not even in the same universe !
Good night.
 
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Moxie

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What is it with you and Nixon? Why do you dislike Nixon so much? He was considered a liberal/moderate Republican and fully supported the Civil Rights movement. He was also close friends with Martin Luther King Sr. I suppose you just hate Nixon because he was a leading anti-Communist.

What's with me and Nixon? I'm pretty sure he doesn't come up on this thread much, Strawman. Also, the point is the Nixon tapes, and I'm sure you know what they are.

And when Trump said that the Democrats have made a hoax of it to bring him down, he is 100% right. That is exactly what they are doing. They are trying to create an economic disaster that they can blame on Trump. That is exactly what the governors of Oregon, Nevada, and Michigan, among others, are doing.

You are weaponizing this humanitarian crisis.

Well it's not really brilliant at all. What Meacham is whining about is that Trump defends himself from incessant media attacks at every press conference and from most newspaper editorial pages. If defending yourself against a non-stop media onslaught makes one a narcissist, then yes, Trump is a narcissist, but there is no shame in it.

Furthermore, the irony of this charge is hilarious, coming from you. Apparently it is narcissistic for Trump to defend his coronavirus response, but it's not at all narcissistic for Democratic leaders, government employees, and media personalities whose incomes are not impacted by the government shutdowns to completely dismiss the concerns and difficulties of small business owners across the country whose livelihoods are being hammered. That's not narcissistic at all. Nope, not at all.

Maybe you should consider the possibility that Meachem is an unoriginal leech on the general media culture and his phrase is as boneheaded as the current shutdown policies.
Meacham is a pretty intelligent guy, and I didn't hear any whining. You should listen to him. And no, defending yourself from a (perceived) non-stop media "onslaught" (if that's what questions are called now) doesn't make you a narcissist. Making a national disaster and global pandemic about yourself, and your perception that your rivals have perpetrated this upon you as a "hoax" to prevent your reelection does. I've asked you many times...where is the leadership? Where is the address from the Oval Office? This is not at all ironic coming from me. I'm not working, and my industry is decimated. This is not bullshit and it's not facile debate. This is serious. This is not, or shouldn't be, partisan.
 

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I'm going to disagree with your characterizations. What you call "self-righteousness" we prefer to think of as standing rather harder on our principles than those on the right, which you praise for being "unapologetic." I would have said leaning more towards the "cynical and hypocritical." This is my point to your bolded above, and I think you're correct...you don't understand it. The Republicans, back in Reagan's day, made a choice to politicize the evangelical Christians and take up their social positions in order to garner the votes for the conservative economic ones like the bolstering of big business and the consolidating of wealth in the hands of the few so beloved of the Republican politcal machine. They even exploit the tendency of this evangelical base to be wary of science, due to the pesky evolution "theory," to deny climate change in order that big businesses can continue to abuse the environment for their own gain. But that marriage-made-in-hell was a festering pustule that finally spewed forth Trump, who finally exposed that false-piety for the naked power grab it was and is.

If god-fearing Christians can ignore that they've chosen a womanizing, thrice-married atheist huckster as their President, for the sake of the Supreme Court, we Democrats can hold our noses and vote for Joe Biden, for our own reasons.
you misunderstand me, I understand the history. I can certainly understand the effectiveness in parts of the South, that part makes sense to me. I just don't get how it works in the mid-west and countryside in the northern states. As MLK said to his prison guard.."you should be on my side"
 

the AntiPusher

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Let's be honest, If Joe is guilty then the woman deserves the right to sue him for mental emotional damages. That's All. There are more important needs for Joe Biden to focus on as a world leader.
 

Federberg

The GOAT
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Let's be honest, If Joe is guilty then the woman deserves the right to sue him for mental emotional damages. That's All. There are more important needs for Joe Biden to focus on as a world leader.
I'm agnostic about this Tara Reade issue. But I have to say I find it strange that she never popped up in the Obama years, imagine the damage she could have done in the 2012 re-election? And then her Russia stuff on social media? It's very suspicious. I hate this new world where I distrust the motives of everyone! :facepalm:
 
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