US Politics Thread

calitennis127

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Fauci has essentially no power, and neither do the Democrats.

I totally disagree. Trump has deferred to him at every turn during this crisis and made him the de facto president. Trump is the de jure president but Fauci is the one running the country right now.

What is the overall policy position coming from the President?

It's to defer to the so-called experts, which is what you want him to do.

Where is the calming voice that we need in this crisis. (By most accounts, it's coming from Andrew Cuomo, and I'm no fan.)

For you personally, I can be the calming voice that you need. Calm the fuck down and stop worrying about the coronavirus because it is a threat to virtually no one. Feel better now? Good.

As a matter of fact, go listen to some music. Listen to Cher's song "Believe" and in your head change the lyrics to "I've had time to think it through, and COVID maybe we're too immune for you, ohhhh yeah."

As to the notion that the epidemic has ended up being nothing for most of the country, I'll just cite Britbox to you on this...it's too early to tell.

LMFAO......so now it's to early to tell??????? You can't make this shit up. It's comments like these that actually make a part of me want to see this "crisis" continue because it is causing people to be so stupid that it's funny.

So after 5 weeks of pure emptiness in most hospitals in the USA - which we were told would be overflowing this entire time - we now have to keep waiting. Well yes, let's just wait until 2025. Why not? The coronavirus is BIG and SCARY and SPOOKY and it will go through, like, 19 different mutations bro. Watch out. Here comes coronavirus, what you gonna do when it come for you?
 

Moxie

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Fauci is the one running the country? Don't tell Trump that, because he says the President has "absolute power." And no, he hasn't deferred to the experts. He talks up every solution the second it comes up. He's got Mike Pense and Jared Kushner in charge of the task force, neither of whom has an experience in science or pandemics. And, helpfully, they've added Brian Harrison to the team, erstwhile breeder of labradoodles.

As to "too early to tell," don't turn a comment on its head and try to get away with it. You were all-in with Trump on a few would be dead and then we'd turn it around by early April. We're at 52,193 deaths in the US. Given the unconscionable and preventable lack of testing in the US, let's say there is both an over-count and under-count there. What is "too early to tell" is how much worse it will get, and how many more states will get hit hard.

And if you are soulless enough to keep insisting that most hospitals in the US are "empty," (which I don't think is ever a thing, actually,) I would refer you to the hospitals that are overrun, to the doctors, nurses, EMTs and technicians in them who are working tirelessly, at the peril of their own lives, quarantining from their own families and watching people die daily, alone. Even in areas where there are few or no cases, you have to consider that hospital workers are on the front lines, and need the PPE, because when it does arrive, they'll be the first to be at risk.
 
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Moxie

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Sorry, since I posted: 52, 523 deaths in the US.
 

calitennis127

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The rise in the number of cases was predictable and inevitable. It is being celebrated by CNN like a score for their preferred side in a tennis match or NFL game because they want as many deaths as possible to use it against Trump. That's why they are cheering the number of cases like the student section at a college football game.

As for my opinion, I do think NYC, San Francisco, Chicago, and LA should be kept on lockdown. However, I think most states and most counties should be allowed to re-open. New York City is not the entire country and people across America should not have to suffer just because New Yorkers are having a very rough time of it. That said, I am all for diverting more resources to New York quickly. I would also like to see De Blasio in particular stop playing political games and just focus on efficiently getting resources to the hospitals.



The good news is I don't think the coronavirus is anywhere close to as bad as people are making it out to be. There is a recent piece in the Wall Street Journal that captures where I stand on this. I'll copy and paste it since it requires a subscription.

Is the Coronavirus as Deadly as They Say?
Current estimates about the Covid-19 fatality rate may be too high by orders of magnitude.

By
Eran Bendavid and
Jay Bhattacharya
March 24, 2020 6:21 pm ET

If it’s true that the novel coronavirus would kill millions without shelter-in-place orders and quarantines, then the extraordinary measures being carried out in cities and states around the country are surely justified. But there’s little evidence to confirm that premise—and projections of the death toll could plausibly be orders of magnitude too high.

Fear of Covid-19 is based on its high estimated case fatality rate—2% to 4% of people with confirmed Covid-19 have died, according to the World Health Organization and others. So if 100 million Americans ultimately get the disease, two million to four million could die. We believe that estimate is deeply flawed. The true fatality rate is the portion of those infected who die, not the deaths from identified positive cases.

The latter rate is misleading because of selection bias in testing. The degree of bias is uncertain because available data are limited. But it could make the difference between an epidemic that kills 20,000 and one that kills two million. If the number of actual infections is much larger than the number of cases—orders of magnitude larger—then the true fatality rate is much lower as well. That’s not only plausible but likely based on what we know so far.

Population samples from China, Italy, Iceland and the U.S. provide relevant evidence. On or around Jan. 31, countries sent planes to evacuate citizens from Wuhan, China. When those planes landed, the passengers were tested for Covid-19 and quarantined. After 14 days, the percentage who tested positive was 0.9%. If this was the prevalence in the greater Wuhan area on Jan. 31, then, with a population of about 20 million, greater Wuhan had 178,000 infections, about 30-fold more than the number of reported cases. The fatality rate, then, would be at least 10-fold lower than estimates based on reported cases.

Next, the northeastern Italian town of Vò, near the provincial capital of Padua. On March 6, all 3,300 people of Vò were tested, and 90 were positive, a prevalence of 2.7%. Applying that prevalence to the whole province (population 955,000), which had 198 reported cases, suggests there were actually 26,000 infections at that time. That’s more than 130-fold the number of actual reported cases. Since Italy’s case fatality rate of 8% is estimated using the confirmed cases, the real fatality rate could in fact be closer to 0.06%.

In Iceland, deCode Genetics is working with the government to perform widespread testing. In a sample of nearly 2,000 entirely asymptomatic people, researchers estimated disease prevalence of just over 1%. Iceland’s first case was reported on Feb. 28, weeks behind the U.S. It’s plausible that the proportion of the U.S. population that has been infected is double, triple or even 10 times as high as the estimates from Iceland. That also implies a dramatically lower fatality rate.

The best (albeit very weak) evidence in the U.S. comes from the National Basketball Association. Between March 11 and 19, a substantial number of NBA players and teams received testing. By March 19, 10 out of 450 rostered players were positive. Since not everyone was tested, that represents a lower bound on the prevalence of 2.2%. The NBA isn’t a representative population, and contact among players might have facilitated transmission. But if we extend that lower-bound assumption to cities with NBA teams (population 45 million), we get at least 990,000 infections in the U.S. The number of cases reported on March 19 in the U.S. was 13,677, more than 72-fold lower. These numbers imply a fatality rate from Covid-19 orders of magnitude smaller than it appears.

How can we reconcile these estimates with the epidemiological models? First, the test used to identify cases doesn’t catch people who were infected and recovered. Second, testing rates were woefully low for a long time and typically reserved for the severely ill. Together, these facts imply that the confirmed cases are likely orders of magnitude less than the true number of infections. Epidemiological modelers haven’t adequately adapted their estimates to account for these factors.

The epidemic started in China sometime in November or December. The first confirmed U.S. cases included a person who traveled from Wuhan on Jan. 15, and it is likely that the virus entered before that: Tens of thousands of people traveled from Wuhan to the U.S. in December. Existing evidence suggests that the virus is highly transmissible and that the number of infections doubles roughly every three days. An epidemic seed on Jan. 1 implies that by March 9 about six million people in the U.S. would have been infected. As of March 23, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, there were 499 Covid-19 deaths in the U.S. If our surmise of six million cases is accurate, that’s a mortality rate of 0.01%, assuming a two week lag between infection and death. This is one-tenth of the flu mortality rate of 0.1%. Such a low death rate would be cause for optimism.

This does not make Covid-19 a nonissue. The daily reports from Italy and across the U.S. show real struggles and overwhelmed health systems. But a 20,000- or 40,000-death epidemic is a far less severe problem than one that kills two million. Given the enormous consequences of decisions around Covid-19 response, getting clear data to guide decisions now is critical. We don’t know the true infection rate in the U.S. Antibody testing of representative samples to measure disease prevalence (including the recovered) is crucial. Nearly every day a new lab gets approval for antibody testing, so population testing using this technology is now feasible.

If we’re right about the limited scale of the epidemic, then measures focused on older populations and hospitals are sensible. Elective procedures will need to be rescheduled. Hospital resources will need to be reallocated to care for critically ill patients. Triage will need to improve. And policy makers will need to focus on reducing risks for older adults and people with underlying medical conditions.

A universal quarantine may not be worth the costs it imposes on the economy, community and individual mental and physical health. We should undertake immediate steps to evaluate the empirical basis of the current lockdowns.

Dr. Bendavid and Dr. Bhattacharya are professors of medicine at Stanford. Neeraj Sood contributed to this article.



Allow me to bring to everyone's attention the above post I made on March 27th citing an article in the Wall Street Journal.....more recent studies have confirmed that the thrust of this article was right on point. The virus is far more widespread than many people originally realized, which means the mortality rate is extraordinarily low and not worth damaging millions of lives over with draconian economic shutdowns.

Now why aren't Britbox, Federberg, Moxie, Broken, and Jelenafan citing this post when they go back and reference my old posts?

Hmmmmm I wonder. They are telling me I was wrong because the death count has been slightly higher than for swine flu (which I never guaranteed would not occur), but ignoring the numerous posts I made which were dead-on, such as the one above.
 

the AntiPusher

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Fauci is the one running the country? Don't tell Trump that, because he says the President has "absolute power." And no, he hasn't deferred to the experts. He talks up every solution the second it comes up. He's got Mike Pense and Jared Kushner in charge of the task force, neither of whom has an experience in science or pandemics. And, helpfully, they've added Brian Harrison to the team, erstwhile breeder of labradoodles.

As to "too early to tell," don't turn a comment on its head and try to get away with it. You were all-in with Trump on a few would be dead and then we'd turn it around by early April. We're at 52,193 deaths in the US. Given the unconscionable and preventable lack of testing in the US, let's say there is both an over-count and under-count there. What is "too early to tell" is how much worse it will get, and how many more states will get hit hard.

And if you are soulless enough to keep insisting that most hospitals in the US are "empty," (which I don't think is ever a thing, actually,) I would refer you to the hospitals that are overrun, to the doctors, nurses, EMTs and technicians in them who are working tirelessly, at the peril of their own lives, quarantining from their own families and watching people die daily, alone. Even in areas where there are few or no cases, you have to consider that hospital workers are on the front lines, and need the PPE, because when it does arrive, they'll be the first to be at risk.
I just would like Cali to explain the light inside of the body and disinfectant products injections hypothesis by Dr Trump's analysis.
 
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the AntiPusher

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IMG954417001.jpg
 
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calitennis127

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Fauci is the one running the country? Don't tell Trump that, because he says the President has "absolute power." And no, he hasn't deferred to the experts. He talks up every solution the second it comes up.

So basically what you are saying is that no matter how many times I show you Fauci saying that the president has listened to him at every turn and followed his key advice at every turn, you don't care?

In other words, you don't care about any factual information but you will keep telling yourself that Trump is defying the "experts" because you simply want to believe it. You don't want to blame the experts for anything, so instead you make up this myth in your head that Trump is not listening to them. How convenient.

Again, I refer you to this quote from a weeks ago. Apparently it already escaped your memory. These quotes are all over the place:

 

the AntiPusher

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So basically what you are saying is that no matter how many times I show you Fauci saying that the president has listened to him at every turn and followed his key advice at every turn, you don't care?

In other words, you don't care about any factual information but you will keep telling yourself that Trump is defying the "experts" because you simply want to believe it. You don't want to blame the experts for anything, so instead you make up this myth in your head that Trump is not listening to them. How convenient.

Again, I refer you to this quote from a weeks ago. Apparently it already escaped your memory. These quotes are all over the place:


This is what is somewhat puzzling. You are all about facts and news clips..however you fail to address the pure raw numbers of what has transpired since your President said this was a HOAX in February..less than 15 cases in the US and no known deaths to over 50k. I guess you are going to hide behind the premise things could have been a lot worst..that's unacceptable..I don't know if there have been a leader who has displays more ineptitude on a consistency than Trump..Yet you STILL want to deflect or try some form of gaslighting. Is being in charge of the Senate , Supreme Court and Presidency more important than let's say perhaps the well being of the human race..Why? These restrictions of enforcement of social distancing which prevents most people from spending precious time with their lives ones is probably going to sink the country into a recession depression like we may not have experienced in almost 90 years..Yet this doesn't seem to bother you. ? Do you see this as some sort of non specific genocidal cleansing of the elderly, citizens that may not have the best immune system or in the best physical conditioning or access to adequate health care. Do you see this as survival of the fittest? Or some version of the right of passage..Are you that cold or is it just Red over Blue that's satisfies your internal self fulfilling prophecy? I don't watch Fox or listen to Rush Limbaugh..or ant political right way organizations.
 

calitennis127

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He’s talking horse shit. He was not tricked. This is a 3 star who ran a government agency. He lied to the FBI, he knew the law. He wasn’t some ignorant dummy like Cali’s orange buffoon



Speaking of eating crow Federberg.....how about this post of yours on December 26th above? Flynn just broke his silence and wrote this: "I accepted the plea deal to stop the pain and threats to my family." I was totally right about that.

Flynn is about to be completely exonerated. You bought into a bullshit narrative all along. You, AntiPusher, and Moxie should each admit that you were dead wrong back in December. It'll be interesting to see if Bwoken goes back and quotes the old bullshit posts of you and Moxie on this subject. I doubt he will, because he likely bought into the same bullshit about the Trump team supposedly being engaged in criminal conspiracy.

Read and enjoy.....

Stunning Brady Docs Disclosed By Gov Exonerate Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, Defense Says
By
Sara Carter
-
April 24, 2020

 

calitennis127

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Truly shocking that this could ever happen to science-denying cult-following morons.


LMFAO.....yes, because keeping people from going to parks and beaches is really "scientific." And so is telling them to wear masks and then not wear masks within the space of a single month. Aren't you the dickface who reveres international institutions like precious religious bodies that cannot be disrespected? Well a few weeks ago your precious WHO said that masks are not good for people to wear, but the Democrats who you are siding with on the coronavirus issue want everyone forced to wear a mask by law. So who are the real scientists out of the two? Please tell us which group you're putting your FAITH in today. The WHO and the Democrats can't both be right, saying opposite things.

You don't have any fucking science on your side.....you're just speaking out of your ass and spewing venom toward a certain demographic that you loathe.

Are these two articles "unscientific" because they don't go with the Zeitgeist that you are slavishly following? What you are calling "science" is not science but simply emoting about an issue that is being exploited for political ends. I hate to bitch-slap you again, but here is some rationality and actual scientific reasoning for you. Read and wise up:

Keep the Parks Open
Public green spaces are good for the immune system and the mind—and they can be rationed to allow for social distancing.

ZEYNEP TUFEKCIAPRIL 7, 2020


Accelerated Urgent Care doctors recommend lifting shelter-in-place order
BAKERSFIELD, Calif. — Doctors and co-owners of Accelerated Urgent Care in Bakersfield say it may not be necessary anymore for residents to shelter-in-place.

 

calitennis127

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Lol at all the squabbling over Flynn when the sitting US President has just pulled off one of the biggest clusterfuck moves in recent history. (sorry @Moxie, I'll get my coat).


Britbox.....you may be interested to know that my position on the Flynn case from back in December is being completely vindicated. Can't wait to hear from everyone on this board admit they were dead wrong:

EXCLUSIVE: Source Says FBI Director Christopher Wray Pushed To Withhold Exculpatory Evidence In Mike Flynn Case

 

Federberg

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Seriously though... how dumb are some Americans that folks have had to call for medical assistance after ingesting disinfectants following Trumps moronic comments? :facepalm:
 

brokenshoelace

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LMAO.....yes, as though socialist and Communist countries have demonstrated no corruption or favoritism toward their economic elites. None at all.

Example no 29292929 of Cali being a moron who can't type a sentence without a logical fallacy:

Criticizing capitalism doesn't imply that the other systems have fared better. It's simply pointing out the irony that people actually think it's a good system because the US won the Cold War.

Where big-government boneheads like yourself go wrong is that you actually think the concept of an economic elite can even be eliminated. It can't. It has always existed and always will.

Example 20229120929090219012902 of Cali being a moron:

I never claimed the above. Ever. That's you creating a strawman again.
 

brokenshoelace

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Too many posts to go through but honest question:

Has Cali given us his take on the whole inject yourself with bleach shit?
 

calitennis127

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Seriously though... how dumb are some Americans that folks have had to call for medical assistance after ingesting disinfectants following Trumps moronic comments? :facepalm:


I love you how avoid the Russia collusion topic altogether now with the evidence mounting each day that you fell for a baseless conspiracy theory. So what you are doing is attacking other people as "dumb" or "stupid" to divert attention from how wrong you were about it. Everything you, Moxie, and AntiPusher said about Flynn was utter bullshit and it is being disproved entirely with the latest news.
 

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I love you how avoid the Russia collusion topic altogether now with the evidence mounting each day that you fell for a baseless conspiracy theory. So what you are doing is attacking other people as "dumb" or "stupid" to divert attention from how wrong you were about it. Everything you, Moxie, and AntiPusher said about Flynn was utter bullshit and it is being disproved entirely with the latest news.
Lol! I've got news for you mate. You don't get to set the agenda with me. I discuss what I consider to be relevant at any point in time. Get it straight. I don't give a flying fuck about Flynn. There's global pandemic. Seems to me you're trying to deflect from the topic du jour if anything! :D
 
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calitennis127

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Lol! I've got news for you mate. You don't get to set the agenda with me. I discuss what I consider to be relevant at any point in time. Get it straight. I don't give a flying fuck about Flynn. There's global pandemic. Seems to me you're trying to deflect from the topic du jour if anything! :D


Oh great, so now you don't care about Flynn? You sure as hell were certain of his guilt back in December. And now that you see he is about to be exonerated and you fell for the media nonsense you are saying you "don't care." Alright then. Well apparently you don't care about a man being unjustly accused of crimes and harassed by law enforcement authorities.
 

Federberg

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Oh great, so now you don't care about Flynn? You sure as hell were certain of his guilt back in December. And now that you see he is about to be exonerated and you fell for the media nonsense you are saying you "don't care." Alright then. Well apparently you don't care about a man being unjustly accused of crimes and harassed by law enforcement authorities.
ok I'll bite...

He plead guilty dumbass :D

I only wish you were so persistent in advocating the innocence of poor black people who have consistently pleaded their innocence but hey ho. Anyway... moving on (even if you don't ;) )
 

calitennis127

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Example no 29292929 of Cali being a moron who can't type a sentence without a logical fallacy:

Criticizing capitalism doesn't imply that the other systems have fared better. It's simply pointing out the irony that people actually think it's a good system because the US won the Cold War.

Example number 1,561,561,561 of Bwoken trying to insult someone and in the process just exposing his total lack of knowledge about a subject.

Does he seriously think that the best argument made for "capitalism" is that "the U.S. won the Cold War"?

Goodness fucking gracious.....never mind the scores of free market economists going back to the 18th century and even prior who have written long treatises on economics. I guess Bwoken truly thinks that the best argument anyone has mustered for capitalism is that the U.S. won the Cold War.

Talk about ignorance.
 
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