US Politics Thread

[El Dude]

Looking at U-3 as representative of how people are doing economically is like looking at aces and saying it tells us how good a player is. It is one factor, an important one, but doesn't come close to telling the whole story.

Many Americans are underemployed, scrambling for the gigs, or working multiple jobs to stay afloat. A more telling numbers it that half of all Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

Reaganomics didn't work. Or rather, it worked for the investment class and billionaires, but not so much for working class people.

 

[britbox]

Yeah, they may even get to this level:

- 60.8 million Americans infected
- 274,304 Americans hospitalized
- 12,469 Americans dead

Those were the numbers for the 12-month period from April 2009 to April 2010 for swine flu. Coronavirus has a long way to go to get there. But one thing is for certain: thanks to the dimwits in the American media, even if coronavirus only reaches 1/5 of those 3 totals, many people will be influenced to think it was much worse and much more potent than the swine flu, and that the Trump administration handled the coronavirus worse than the Obama administration handled swine flu. That unfortunately we can be sure of.

Cali, I don't know why you keep using these figures as some sort of comparison checker. You could use them in 18 months perhaps when the final data of this virus is analyzed. Comparing the figures of two datasets at completely different stages is next to pointless.

First of all, the 60.8 million swine flu infection figure is an ESTIMATE from the CDC on how many people got the disease, much of which will have been modeled In hindsight. You seemed to be comparing that figure to confirmed tested cases of Coronavirus.

Anyway, as it stands, The very same CDC you are using for your figures, estimate between 160 million and 214 million people in the US could be infected and as many as 200,000 to 1.7 million people could die.

Now, of course, these figures are without interventions. The death figures will end up way less with interventions... and what we are seeing are interventions. Draconian ones.

You're behaving like somebody in a hospital saying "Those Intensive Care Units were a waste of money... nobody has died"

 

[calitennis127]

Cali, I don't know why you keep using these figures as some sort of comparison checker.

For the simple reason that the global economy was not brought to a standstill at that time despite massive numbers of infections, hospitalizations, and deaths from swine flu. I do not believe that the data available on coronavirus show that it is potent enough to warrant shutting the global economy down. Preserving the lives of people over the age of 80 is not the only purpose of human civilization. Already in the United States there are massive layoffs taking place. I adamantly do not think that is a price worth paying simply because in Italy the 100,000 Chinese textile factory workers - many from Wuhan - brought over a virus that older Italians are vulnerable to. I wish elderly Italian people all the best but their survival is not the only consideration that should be made in political affairs. Working-age people having livelihoods and jobs is actually much more significant for social stability across the world than whether Italians over the age of 80 can survive an unfortunate virus.

 

[calitennis127]

Anyway, as it stands, The very same CDC you are using for your figures, estimate between 160 million and 214 million people in the US could be infected and as many as 200,000 to 1.7 million people could die.

No, the figures I cited on deaths (roughly 12,400) and hospitalizations (roughly 274,000) from swine flu are solid figures about the past. They aren't wild-eyed prognostications about what could potentially happen down the road.

Now, of course, these figures are without interventions. The death figures will end up way less with interventions... and what we are seeing are interventions. Draconian ones.

You're behaving like somebody in a hospital saying "Those Intensive Care Units were a waste of money... nobody has died"

No, I'm actually thinking like this MIT biologist who says that fearmongering about coronavirus will go down as a huge fraud.

Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai, an MIT scientist with 4 PHD degrees and a researcher on the human immune system says this: “As an MIT PhD in Biological Engineering who studies & does research nearly every day on the Immune System, the #coronavirus fear mongering by the Deep State will go down in history as one of the biggest fraud to manipulate economies, suppress dissent, & push MANDATED Medicine!”

MIT biologist says fear mongering on coronavirus will go down as biggest fraud to manipulate economies

MIT biologist says fear mongering on coronavirus will go down as biggest fraud to manipulate economies - Tech Startups

April 5 Update: MIT Biologist Dr. Shiva now doubles down his attack on “Deep State and FakeScience” slamming Big Pharma, CDC, WHO, China and asking U.S. President to fire Dr. Fauci. On March 11, the World Health Organization (WHO) declared COVID-19 a global epidemic. The virus, which originated...

techstartups.com

I'm also thinking like Jihad Bashira, a leading Israeli virologist and infectious disease expert who says that the panic about coronavirus is unnecessary and exaggerated.

"Professor Jihad Bishara is a leading virologist and the director of the infectious diseases unit at Rabin Medical Center, Beilinson Hospital in Petah Tikva, Israel. In a statement on Sunday, he urged the world leaders to calm their citizens about the coronavirus pandemic. He said people are being whipped into unnecessary panic. "

Leading Israeli virologist and infectious disease expert slams ‘unnecessary and exaggerated panic’ about coronavirus and urges world leaders to calm public

Leading Israeli virologist and infectious disease expert slams âunnecessary and exaggerated panicâ about coronavirus and urges world leaders to calm public - Tech Startups

On March 12, we wrote a story about Dr. Shiva, an MIT Biologist with four PHD degrees from the same school, after he expressed his concerns about the coronovirus and how the media has exaggerated the coronavirus outbreak to scare millions of Americans. The story quickly went viral with over two...

techstartups.com

 

[calitennis127]

Since it's unfair for me to just pick on the silly statements of Federberg in the past, I have to comment on this idiocy above:

1) Trump's poll numbers were not in a tailspin in early January when he authorized the strike on Soleimani.

2) Trump never "attacked Iran." He authorized a strike on an Iranian general inside of Iraq.

3) There is no evidence whatsoever that the Soleimani strike was done to "save face." Save face from what? Trump had no embarrassing quagmires to save face from in the Middle East like Bush or Obama did. There was nothing to save face about.

Given that the compilation of tweets above was posted by Broken, it was to be expected that the comparison made no sense.

 

[calitennis127]

For those who keep focusing on Trump instead of looking at China.....here are some insightful videos. The wet markets in China, in places like Wuhan, are the main reason for global pandemics.

Now why do the likes of Moxie, Broken, tented, and Federberg never condemn China for their mistreatment of animals that results in global pandemics such as SARS and coronavirus? Are they simply afraid to criticize them because they're not white? It's just like the global warming issue. No country pollutes more than China but Western leftists (or people, such as Broken, who try very hard to emulate Western leftists) never mention it.

 

[britbox]

For the simple reason that the global economy was not brought to a standstill at that time despite massive numbers of infections, hospitalizations, and deaths from swine flu. I do not believe that the data available on coronavirus show that it is potent enough to warrant shutting the global economy down. Preserving the lives of people over the age of 80 is not the only purpose of human civilization. Already in the United States there are massive layoffs taking place. I adamantly do not think that is a price worth paying simply because in Italy the 100,000 Chinese textile factory workers - many from Wuhan - brought over a virus that older Italians are vulnerable to. I wish elderly Italian people all the best but their survival is not the only consideration that should be made in political affairs. Working-age people having livelihoods and jobs is actually much more significant for social stability across the world than whether Italians over the age of 80 can survive an unfortunate virus.

OK, finally a reasoned argument and obviously the world doesn't shut down for every pandemic and has never shut down before on this scale.

I've heard other people put forward a similar(ish) argument based partly on the above, but with the added talk of the indirect deaths that economic devastation will cause. There is the basis of an argument, however unpalatable it is to many. I disagree with it.

This is not an Italian problem. It just isn't. Sure, they are the ones being hit hardest right now, but Europe, in general, is going to get lit up over the next few weeks. The US will be hit hard and most countries around the world are now seeing infections. It's a world problem.

They didn't shut the world down without reason. I think the current situation is the tip of the iceberg. You need to start taking notice of the exponential growth of the figures everywhere.

The only other explanations I've heard are dozens of conspiracy theories about biowarfare, new world orders, etc... (some of which are actually quite convincing to be honest).

I'd be interested in hearing what you think constitutes an acceptable "death tax"? Because that's basically what you are basing your argument on.

 

[calitennis127]

This is not an Italian problem. It just isn't. Sure, they are the ones being hit hardest right now, but Europe, in general, is going to get lit up over the next few weeks.

Meaning what? Hundreds upon hundreds of mild new cases that people put up Instagram posts about but then heal from 10-14 days later? Also, the reason that Italy was hit hardest was, again, twofold: 1) very old population, and 2) presence of textile workers from Wuhan. That is why they were hit hardest.

They didn't shut the world down without reason. I think the current situation is the tip of the iceberg. You need to start taking notice of the exponential growth of the figures everywhere.

I agree with the MIT biologist and Israeli infectious disease expert that this is mostly a scam and terribly, terribly exaggerated. Please see the articles I posted links to above.

I'd be interested in hearing what you think constitutes an acceptable "death tax"? Because that's basically what you are basing your argument on.

Something orders of magnitude higher than what regular diseases cause. 100 deaths is not a reason for a country of 327 million to tank its economy and cause hundreds of companies to lay off thousands of people. The government/social response is totally disproportionate and is likely to cause far more harm than the virus itself.

 

[britbox]

Meaning what? Hundreds upon hundreds of mild new cases that people put up Instagram posts about but then heal from 10-14 days later? Also, the reason that Italy was hit hardest was, again, twofold: 1) very old population, and 2) presence of textile workers from Wuhan. That is why they were hit hardest.

I agree with the MIT biologist and Israeli infectious disease expert that this is mostly a scam and terribly, terribly exaggerated. Please see the articles I posted links to above.

Something orders of magnitude higher than what regular diseases cause. 100 deaths is not a reason for a country of 327 million to tank its economy and cause hundreds of companies to lay off thousands of people. The government/social response is totally disproportionate and is likely to cause far more harm than the virus itself.

You don't seem to understand the concept of contagion and how the numbers exponentially ramp up. We'll revisit it in a month and maybe you'll understand it a little more. Just for historical reference, the death toll is currently 8,970 from 221,000 cases. I'll give up talking to you about it until then.

 

[Federberg]

You don't seem to understand the concept of contagion and how the numbers exponentially ramp up. We'll revisit it in a month and maybe you'll understand it a little more. Just for historical reference, the death toll is currently 8,970. I'll give up talking to you about it until then.

you think he'll acknowledge his stupidity then? I don't think he would have been able to stay on this forum for this long if he had any shame to be honest..

 

[brokenshoelace]

Just for the record, Coronavirus was discovered in the USA and South Korea on the same day. Yes, same day. The Koreans mobilized the whole fucking country and it is now completely under control. Trump called it a hoax. The results are telling. But he won't be criticized for that by his cult followers because A) they don't give a shit about how he actually performs and B) standards are already as low as they can possibly be. Of course, he also disbanded the whole pandemic team in 2018 but you won't hear his minions criticize him.

 

[Federberg]

Just for the record, Coronavirus was discovered in the USA and South Korea on the same day. Yes, same day. The Koreans mobilized the whole fucking country and it is now completely under control. Trump called it a hoax. The results are telling. But he won't be criticized for that by his cult followers because A) they don't give a shit about how he actually performs and B) standards are already as low as they can possibly be. Of course, he also disbanded the whole pandemic team in 2018 but you won't hear his minions criticize him.

I would love to know how Trump's US of A is the greatest country on earth when South Korea is running circles around it? Cali please explain??

 

[Federberg]

 

[calitennis127]

Just for the record, Coronavirus was discovered in the USA and South Korea on the same day. Yes, same day. The Koreans mobilized the whole fucking country and it is now completely under control. Trump called it a hoax.

Another example of how you are a low-information, idiotic tool who is enslaved by the information stream from the white leftists that you idolize. Let me give you the timeline, since you are utterly clueless. But before I do that, let me point out to you exactly what I pointed out to Moxie and she had to concede: Trump never called the virus itself a "hoax." He called the Democrats' politicizing of it a "hoax" and he was absolutely right about that. Also - since you know absolutely nothing except what your white left-wing heroes in Western Europe tell you - it was the head of the World Health Organization who in January said that people did not need to worry about human-to-human spread of coronavirus.

But here is the timeline, dumbass:

December 30, 2019: unknown disease first observed in Wuhan, China

January 7th, 2020: the disease is identified with the name "coronavirus" in the patients in Wuhan

January 23rd: The WHO head says this: “At this time, there is no evidence of human-to-human transmission outside China,” Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the W.H.O.’s director general, said at a news conference in Geneva. “That doesn’t mean it won’t happen.”...….“Make no mistake,” he added. “This is an emergency in China, but it has not yet become a global health emergency. It may yet become one.”

January 31: Trump administration declares a "public health emergency" for the USA (as reported by the Washington Post) and requires that Americans abroad be subject to mandatory quarantines on military bases

February 2: Trump administration imposes travel ban on non-U.S. citizens who recently visited China, a move that Dr. Anthony Fauci of the coronavirus task force saved the U.S. a lot of suffering. He is condemned by the aforementioned WHO director general for doing this.

February 28: Trump says at a rally in Charleston, South Carolina that the Democrats' politicizing of the coronavirus is a hoax.


So, you clueless misinformed saphead, while the Democrats were going through impeachment, Trump declared a public health emergency in late January and imposed a travel ban in early February just a week after Dr. Ghebreyesus of the WHO basically said there was nothing to worry about. He also did this a full month before calling the Democrats' politicizing of the coronavirus a hoax.

Once again, you demonstrate your simple-minded ignorance and credulity. You're welcome for the info. Take notes and wise up.

But then again, BwokenWooWace won't acknowledge that Trump was on top of this issue before the WHO director or that he took action a full month before the hoax comments that Broken is mischaracterizing. Why? He doesn't give a shit about actually looking at the facts and his intellectual standards are as low as they can possibly be.

 

[calitennis127]

You don't seem to understand the concept of contagion and how the numbers exponentially ramp up.

I acknowledged that will happen, but I also said the vast majority of those who contract the virus will survive and that this is therefore not worth shutting the global economy down over. I agree with the MIT biologist and Israeli infectious disease expert quoted above that the potency of the coronavirus is being greatly exaggerated to scare ordinary members of the masses like you, Moxie, Bwoken, Tented, and Federbergy

 

[calitennis127]

Trump called it a hoax.

No, that's closer to the position of this Indian biologist at MIT (Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai). He must be a member of the Trump cult. Go and ask your white left-wing heroes/slavemasters what they think of Shiva Ayyadurai. Do they approve of him? Make sure you ask their permission before you offer your own opinion. After all, they own your mind and you must always speak in accord with what they tell you to believe. Go on little boy, ask your intellectual parents if you can say something.

MIT biologist says fear mongering on coronavirus will go down as biggest fraud to manipulate economies

MIT biologist says fear mongering on coronavirus will go down as biggest fraud to manipulate economies - Tech Startups

April 5 Update: MIT Biologist Dr. Shiva now doubles down his attack on “Deep State and FakeScience” slamming Big Pharma, CDC, WHO, China and asking U.S. President to fire Dr. Fauci. On March 11, the World Health Organization (WHO) declared COVID-19 a global epidemic. The virus, which originated...

techstartups.com

 

[calitennis127]

I would love to know how Trump's US of A is the greatest country on earth when South Korea is running circles around it? Cali please explain??

Well, for one thing, South Korea has a much smaller population (50 million versus the USA's 327 million) and a much smaller class of government-dependent people and urban poor. But the medical response in the USA is nowhere near as bad as people are making it out to be. It's funny how Italy's system of socialized medicine has been failing but no one is using this as an opportunity to bash universal healthcare. I wonder why.

 

[Federberg]

Well, for one thing, South Korea has a much smaller population (50 million versus the USA's 327 million) and a much smaller class of government-dependent people and urban poor. But the medical response in the USA is nowhere near as bad as people are making it out to be. It's funny how Italy's system of socialized medicine has been failing but no one is using this as an opportunity to bash universal healthcare. I wonder why.

Sigh... it's not about the system you fool. It's about the number of beds. If the numbers keep trending the way they are the US will experience exactly the same issue. I hope you're as immune to the corona virus as you are to common sense!

 

[calitennis127]

Sigh... it's not about the system you fool. It's about the number of beds. If the numbers keep trending the way they are the US will experience exactly the same issue. I hope you're as immune to the corona virus as you are to common sense!

Oh so it's not about the system? Then why didn't you call out Broken for condemning capitalism? Why are you only condemning me for criticizing Italy's system?

As far as number of beds, you are misinformed, again: the U.S. has the most ICU beds per capita of any country @ 20-32/100,000. That is more than Canada, the UK, and Sweden, and much higher than China's 2.8-4.6.

It must be because the U.S. has the least government-controlled healthcare system. Imagine what it could do if it had even less government involvement.

 

[Federberg]

Oh so it's not about the system? Then why didn't you call out Broken for condemning capitalism? Why are you only condemning me for criticizing Italy's system?

As far as number of beds, you are misinformed, again: the U.S. has the most ICU beds per capita of any country @ 20-32/100,000. That is more than Canada, the UK, and Sweden, and much higher than China's 2.8-4.6.

It must be because the U.S. has the least government-controlled healthcare system. Imagine what it could do if it had even less government involvement.

There you go assuming what people assume. This is one of your biggest weaknesses, and that's saying something!

There's no question the US is better resourced but this is the type of scenario that's outside all tolerance points. The US is also helped by having a better demographic profile to handle this. However these resources are not evenly dispersed. You are looking at this simplistically (as usual) in the aggregate. I hope the worst doesn't happen, but given the trajectory at the moment, the delays in countering this pandemic, the fact that the depth of the problem in the US is still an unknown (due to testing delays), your health care system will be stressed like never before.