US Politics Thread

Moxie

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Speaks for itself:

The progression of Covid-19 and the progression of his own alarming idiocy, all straight from Trump's own mouth:

TRUMP 2020

January 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”

February 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

February 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

February 25: “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”

February 25: “I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”

February 26: “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”

February 26: “We're going very substantially down, not up.”

February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

February 28: “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”

March 2: “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”

March 2: “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”

March 4: “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”

March 5: “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”

March 5: “The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”

March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”

March 6: Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”

March 6: “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”

March 6: “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one cruise ship that wasn't our fault.”

March 7: “We’ll hold tremendous rallies...I’m not concerned at all.”

March 8: “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on coronavirus.”

March 8: We have plenty of tests, more than plenty and they are beautiful. Beautiful tests they are...

March 9: “This blindsided the world.”

March 10: "Our CoronaVirus Team has been doing a great job. Even Democrat governors have been VERY complimentary!"

March 11: "I am fully prepared to use the full power of the Federal Government to deal with our current challenge of the CoronaVirus!"

March 12: "108 countries are dealing with the CoronaVirus problem, some of which we are helping!"

March 13: "To this point, and because we have had a very strong border policy, we have had 40 deaths related to CoronaVirus. If we had weak or open borders, that number would be many times higher!"

March 13: "Today I am declaring a national emergency. Two very big words,"

March 13: In response to reporter who asked if Trump did indeed disband the White House pandemic office: “No, I don't take responsibility at all. I just think it’s a nasty question. When you say ‘me’, I didn’t do it. We have a group of people, I could ask, perhaps my administration. Perhaps I could ask Tony about that? Because I don’t know anything about that.”
 
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calitennis127

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They aren't the worst examples. They are the best points of reference as they are ahead of the curve when it comes to infection.

Right, and if you look at the data from those two countries, the people who are dying are overwhelmingly very old. It's also a mistake to assume that most countries touched by the virus are going to be affected as extensively as those two countries were, for a variety of reasons.

You have no idea what the mortality rate is, so stop quoting it at 2.3%.

Okay, so then let me turn to the Assistant Secretary for Health at HHS, a guy named Brett P. Giroir (M.D.). This is what he said about it on March 6th:

"The best estimates now of the overall mortality rate for COVID-19 is somewhere between 0.1 percent and 1 percent."

This virus has a long way to go yet. We won't really know the true figures for maybe a year.

Right, and it's far more likely that it will be below 1% than around 2.3%.

This stuff about the virus and Trump is a total red herring.

Maybe to you since you don't follow the American media closely.

You're washed up in a ridiculous state of paranoia.

No, lol. I am basing my assessment of the media hype around coronavirus based on actual words from members of the American media. Among the numerous examples I could offer are these: 1) a New York Times column calling the virus the "Trumpvirus," 2) a Washington Post column calling this "Trump's Chernobyl," and 3) an MSNBC commentator calling this episode "Trump's Katrina."

Those are their words, not mine. So I am not being paranoid. I am simply describing a reality that exists.

By the way, I'm still waiting for your plethora of articles churned out by the Washington Post that convinced China and Italy to go into lockdown.

I never said that the coronavirus does not exist or that the Washington Post calls the shots in China. What I did say was that the New York Times and Washington Post set the international news cycle, especially for Western countries, and since they each have everyone on edge constantly over the fact that Trump is president, people are ready to be triggered by the smallest little thing and panic - like you and Federberg did over the Soleimani strike.

If you don't think there has been a clear difference in tone from the media in their coverage of the coronavirus now versus the swine flu in 2009-2010, then you simply aren't looking close enough.

As for the American reaction? Who is the president calling the shots? If you aren't happy with the way the US Administration is handling this, then maybe point your finger at the person in the chair.

I do think Trump has not provided enough resistance to the movement to shut down the economy. I think some of his proactive measures such as the travel ban and the testing systems have been great, but I also think he has gone along too readily with the idea that shutting public events down is the most sensible route to be taking at this time.
 

calitennis127

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Just to clarify my last post and I'll use your figures and real figures to illustrate the point (I won't attribute random numbers to you, like you seem to do for other posters).

So, you posted this on Friday.

Those paltry 1,000 cases are now 6,468. They've multiplied by more than 6 times in 4 days.
Those paltry 33 deaths are now 109. They've multiplied by more than 3 times in 4 days.

Starting to get the picture?


Oh wow, you have proved that there are a growing number of cases. What a mind-blowing revelation. Guess what? I'll even agree with you that there are more to come in the days ahead!

But I don't think these paltry numbers even come close to justifying that we shut down the global economy for weeks and possibly months. If you open up the Bwoken dictionary of completely pedestrian terms and phrases that he thinks make a person sound super-educated, one of the terms you will find is "non sequitur," which you are providing a great example of at the moment. It does not automatically follow that shutting down the economy is the most sensible response to the numbers of cases you listed. That is a very big leap that requires other evidence.
 

calitennis127

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Again, this needs some context. While it is more carefully read that Trump was trying to call out the Democrats for "politicizing" the outbreak of coronavirus, which is just his claim, let's be fair, he certainly didn't measure his words carefully. It very much reads/sounds as if he's calling the virus a hoax. This is what he said:
“Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus, you know that, right?” he said. “Coronavirus, they’re politicizing it. We did one of the great jobs. You say, ‘How’s President Trump doing?’ They go, ‘Oh, not good, not good.’ They have no clue. They don’t have any clue. They can’t even count their votes in Iowa.”

Then the president, who often dismissed special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation as a hoax, continued, “They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything. They tried it over and over. They’d been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning. They lost. It’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax.”


Now, if you reach all the way back to earlier in his stream-of-consciousness rant, you can extrapolate that he meant that the "politicizing" of the corona virus was a "hoax" perpetrated by Democrats,

No extrapolation is needed. He clearly meant that the Democrats' politicizing of the coronavirus was the hoax, which is why Facebook deleted the Politico article making that claim. The script clearly shows that he did not call the virus itself a hoax, as your examination of the quote acknowledges.

but look at what he said and how he said it. Firstly, it's rather a misuse of the word "hoax." He might have employed "spin," and he did say that they were politicizing it, but "hoax" really does imply a trick, a fabrication.

And it is indeed a trick and a fabrication on the part of the media in the sense that they are blaming Trump for the virus itself as opposed to the Chinese government and attacking the Trump administration's policy in combating the virus even though Dr. Fauci as well as Andrew Cuomo have credited the Trump administration for doing a great job and being vigilant.

By saying it, in whatever part of that speech, he still put it out there that the virus is a "hoax," as evidenced by the notion that he has plenty of loyal followers who now believe that it is.

No one believes that the virus itself is made up. They think that the media is exaggerating how bad it is. That's a big difference.

So, by letter of his word, he didn't exactly call the virus a "hoax,"

Great, so you admit that what Britbox said was factually incorrect. Thank you for correcting him. Great job. :):good:
 

britbox

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^ Jeez. This is like trying to explain the colour of the sky to a blind man.

One last time... the paltry figures won't remain paltry for long. It's the exponential growth numbers that should be thing you're looking at.
 

calitennis127

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Sorry to drop in, and I'll let El Dude respond to the rest, but your notion that this current pandemic is about the media wanting to take down Trump is, frankly, crazy.

Or simply based on the ability to read and hear statements made by other people. Hopefully Britbox can review this list so his eyes can be opened to a reality that he is oblivious to. I'll let all this speak for itself. This is how the American media characterized the coronavirus crisis before even 50 or 100 Americans had died from it. Why oh why would I think they want to use this to take down Trump when one of them called it the "Trumpvirus" on February 26th? Just crazy on my part. Completely paranoid like Britbox said!



February 25 (Yahoo News):
Coronavirus: Donald Trump's Very Own Hurricane Katrina Moment?


February 26 (New York Times):
Let’s Call It Trumpvirus


March 8 (NBC):
Todd: Coronavirus Can Be to Trump Like Iran Hostages Were to Carter



March 9 (Washington Post):
The coronavirus is Trump’s Chernobyl


March 9 (MSNBC commentary):
Eddie Glaude: Coronavirus Could Be "Donald Trump's Katrina"



Now who after reading such headlines would possible conclude that the American media want to use this crisis to take down Trump? That's just crazy! And paranoid!

But, in all seriousness Britbox and Moxie, you're welcome for sharing this information with you. Hopefully you can truly learn from it. I want you guys to be good pupils, unlike Broken, who really struggles in class.
 

calitennis127

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^ Jeez. This is like trying to explain the colour of the sky to a blind man.

One last time... the paltry figures won't remain paltry for long. It's the exponential growth numbers that should be thing you're looking at.

Yeah, they may even get to this level:

- 60.8 million Americans infected
- 274,304 Americans hospitalized
- 12,469 Americans dead

Those were the numbers for the 12-month period from April 2009 to April 2010 for swine flu. Coronavirus has a long way to go to get there. But one thing is for certain: thanks to the dimwits in the American media, even if coronavirus only reaches 1/5 of those 3 totals, many people will be influenced to think it was much worse and much more potent than the swine flu, and that the Trump administration handled the coronavirus worse than the Obama administration handled swine flu. That unfortunately we can be sure of.
 

Federberg

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Cali you are such an idiot. You argue with such shamelessness the rest of us let you get away with it. You keep bringing up swine flu for some reason. Data that encapsulates over a year. You want numbers? Here’s the latest on the virus globally...

198,000 cases
7,900 fatalities

This thing started a few months ago and in a few days this will exceed the fatalities for swine flu in the US, with magnitudes fewer cases. Do you get it now? Please don’t respond. You’ll just convince everyone else here that you’re a daft moron. Allow us to pretend you’re not...
 

Federberg

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Is Bernie really going to prolong this race at a time like this when he has no chance to win? :facepalm:
 

britbox

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Or simply based on the ability to read and hear statements made by other people. Hopefully Britbox can review this list so his eyes can be opened to a reality that he is oblivious to. I'll let all this speak for itself. This is how the American media characterized the coronavirus crisis before even 50 or 100 Americans had died from it. Why oh why would I think they want to use this to take down Trump when one of them called it the "Trumpvirus" on February 26th? Just crazy on my part. Completely paranoid like Britbox said!



February 25 (Yahoo News):
Coronavirus: Donald Trump's Very Own Hurricane Katrina Moment?


February 26 (New York Times):
Let’s Call It Trumpvirus


March 8 (NBC):
Todd: Coronavirus Can Be to Trump Like Iran Hostages Were to Carter



March 9 (Washington Post):
The coronavirus is Trump’s Chernobyl


March 9 (MSNBC commentary):
Eddie Glaude: Coronavirus Could Be "Donald Trump's Katrina"



Now who after reading such headlines would possible conclude that the American media want to use this crisis to take down Trump? That's just crazy! And paranoid!

But, in all seriousness Britbox and Moxie, you're welcome for sharing this information with you. Hopefully you can truly learn from it. I want you guys to be good pupils, unlike Broken, who really struggles in class.


Yes, Cali. I can see why articles from esteemed luminaries such as Hunter DeRensis of the National Interest threw the world into Global Chaos and Hysteria. There is no other explanation.
 

brokenshoelace

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Lol.....so the same person who criticizes others for living in a bubble wants us to define an international crisis by one country, which would be the epitome of "living in a bubble." But we are talking to BwokenWooFace, the board's resident political dumbass.

You want to look at Italy? Sure, let's look at Italy. Let's look at this article just for starters:

Why are deaths from coronavirus so high in Italy?

Italy now has the highest number of deaths from COVID-19 outside of mainland China.

Deaths from the new coronavirus in Italy have soared in recent days, with the country reporting 463 total fatalities from the virus, out of 9,172 confirmed cases, as of Monday (March 9). But why are deaths in the country so high?

Outside of mainland China, Italy now has the highest number of deaths in the world from COVID-19, the disease caused by the new coronavirus. And the country's fatality rate from COVID-19 — at 5% — is much higher than the global average of 3.4%, according to the World Health Organization.

One factor affecting the country's death rate may be the age of its population — Italy has the oldest population in Europe, with about 23% of residents 65 or older, according to The New York Times. The median age in the country is 47.3, compared with 38.3 in the United States, the Times reported. Many of Italy's deaths have been among people in their 80s, and 90s, a population known to be more susceptible to severe complications from COVID-19, according to The Local.



There you go, Bwoken, you fool. Italy is having a problem with this mostly because its population is staggeringly old, with a median population of 47.3. And most of their deaths have been among people in their 80s and 90s.

So let me ask you....."Have you actually paid attention to what happened in Italy?"

Apparently not. But then you think you're better than "Americans" because you go on your computer and can read a headline about the death toll in Italy without even bothering to read the details of an article. Wow, what a worldly, detail-oriented "scholar" you are.

My favorite part of all the anti-Coronavirus truthers is the "fuck old people" attitude. It's hilarious. Like yeah, who cares if thousands of older people die. Amazing.
 

brokenshoelace

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Lol.....you really are a fucking moron, plus a parochial, narrow-minded bigot to boot. Apparently asking a simple question about mortality rate of a disease means engaging in "logical fallacies." Everything you criticize Americans for is projection on your part. You are a total bigot and know far less than you think you do. Every time you comment on the United States you demonstrate your total ignorance of a country that is foreign to you, and this case is no different.

As hopeless as you are, I'll take a moment to straighten you out, just a little bit.....the issue here is a matter of comparison. When you are hyping something as terrible or bad, you have to ask the simple question "compared to what?"

As of right now, there are not even 100 DEATHS in the United States from this stupid virus. Not even 100 in a country with a population near 330 million. And almost half of those deceased are people who were in a fucking nursing home in the state of Washington. If you listened to the media and stupid government officials, you would think 100,000 have died. As it is right now, NOT EVEN 100 in the United States have died.

Plus, there is this from a top official at Health and Human Services from Friday, March 6th:

"The best estimates now of the overall mortality rate for COVID-19 is somewhere between 0.1 percent and 1 percent." - Admiral Brett P. Giroir, M.D.

And then there is this information from the Surgeon General of the United States, Admiral Jerome Adams, who presented it at a recent White House news conference:

- The average age of death is 80
- People over the age of 60 are much more likely to develop complications from the virus and be hospitalized
- And, best of all: if you're a child or young adult, you're much more likely to die from the flu than from the coronavirus


THAT IS FROM THE SURGEON GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES. Not my words, but his.

And our political leaders are idiotically shutting down the U.S./global economy over a virus with a mortality rate likely less than 1% (according to a top official at HHS) whose average death victim is 80 years old (according to the Surgeon General of the United States). This is the dumbest and most stupid thing I have ever witnessed. So naturally Bwoken Boy supports it. Entirely predictable.

Catholic white republican who is openly anti-muslim and anti-gay calling someone a bigot. Truly incredible.
 
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brokenshoelace

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Speaks for itself:

The progression of Covid-19 and the progression of his own alarming idiocy, all straight from Trump's own mouth:

TRUMP 2020

January 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”

February 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

February 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

February 25: “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”

February 25: “I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”

February 26: “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”

February 26: “We're going very substantially down, not up.”

February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

February 28: “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”

March 2: “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”

March 2: “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”

March 4: “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”

March 5: “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”

March 5: “The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”

March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”

March 6: Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”

March 6: “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”

March 6: “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one cruise ship that wasn't our fault.”

March 7: “We’ll hold tremendous rallies...I’m not concerned at all.”

March 8: “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on coronavirus.”

March 8: We have plenty of tests, more than plenty and they are beautiful. Beautiful tests they are...

March 9: “This blindsided the world.”

March 10: "Our CoronaVirus Team has been doing a great job. Even Democrat governors have been VERY complimentary!"

March 11: "I am fully prepared to use the full power of the Federal Government to deal with our current challenge of the CoronaVirus!"

March 12: "108 countries are dealing with the CoronaVirus problem, some of which we are helping!"

March 13: "To this point, and because we have had a very strong border policy, we have had 40 deaths related to CoronaVirus. If we had weak or open borders, that number would be many times higher!"

March 13: "Today I am declaring a national emergency. Two very big words,"

March 13: In response to reporter who asked if Trump did indeed disband the White House pandemic office: “No, I don't take responsibility at all. I just think it’s a nasty question. When you say ‘me’, I didn’t do it. We have a group of people, I could ask, perhaps my administration. Perhaps I could ask Tony about that? Because I don’t know anything about that.”

Wait, Cali ignored this post? I'm shocked.

(Watch as he is now forced to respond, and will, after insulting me of course, come up with the most convoluted retort known to man in 3...2...1)
 

Federberg

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Is Bernie really going to prolong this race at a time like this when he has no chance to win? :facepalm:
I'm hearing that despite the pandemic, turnout in some States yesterday exceeded 2016??? Wow! Just wow... Bernie do the right thing mate. You serve no one but yourself if you hang around. Go do your job and pass legislation in the Senate
 
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tented

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Pretend we had a time machine, then went back to 2014, a time when Trump was best known for being a reality TV star with poor business sense, and asked Republicans, “Do you think Donald Trump should be President?” Or “What would a Donald Trump Presidency look like?” Just imagine the responses.
 
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Federberg

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this seems like a bad spot to be in. Is this what companies are doing in the US?

 
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Federberg

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bwahahahaha!

1584550062683.png
 

calitennis127

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You can be nervous about reprisals, particularly when as a senior official you could be a target. It doesn't mean it's immediate. In fact it's probably worse if you always have to look over your back. It's not my fault if nuance escapes you mate

Lol.....way to play off the fact that you used the word "tonight" on January 3rd, clearly implying that an immediate assassination was in the works. Don't use the nuance dodge. You were clearly suggesting an immediate retaliation and now you feel like an idiot that I pointed it out.

You're welcome.
 
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