UK Politics Thread

[britbox]

Rees-Mogg isn't the leader of the party, Boris Johnson holds that mantle.

Conservatives are going to win their biggest majority for years if the exit polls and early results are anything to go by.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Rees-Mogg isn't the leader of the party, Boris Johnson holds that mantle.

Conservatives are going to win their biggest majority for years if the exit polls and early results are anything to go by.

Oh I know he is not the leader but my question was, where is he in the hierarchy of the party? Does he have solid support? I find him interesting.

 

[britbox]

Oh I know he is not the leader but my question was, where is he in the hierarchy of the party? Does he have solid support? I find him interesting.

He was Leader of the House and one of the main Brexiteers. He's been hidden from view during the election hustings after making a few choice comments about a fire that killed a load of people in London.

The election is turning into a landslide win for the Conservatives. Brexit now happens. Labour are being severely punished in its former northern heartlands. Seats turning from Labour to Conservative for the first time in 85 years.

Jo Swinson, the Liberal "Democrat" Remainer in chief who wanted to revoke Brexit has lost her own seat and is out of Parliament. A few weeks ago she was proclaiming herself as the next Prime Minister.
Bye Bye Jo

 

[nehmeth]

Possibly the largest margin of victory since Maggie Thatcher. John Major and Tony Blair unsuccessful in thwarting Boris. Wow.

 

[britbox]

Possibly the largest margin of victory since Maggie Thatcher. John Major and Tony Blair unsuccessful in thwarting Boris. Wow.

Maybe even bigger. It's where they have won that makes it even more crazy... towns in the north that used to be shoe-ins for Labour.
Serves them right for trampling over democracy. They ignored their working class base in favour of metropolitan Guardian-reading vegan types.

 

[nehmeth]

Maybe even bigger. It's where they have won that makes it even more crazy... towns in the north that used to be shoe-ins for Labour.
Serves them right for trampling over democracy. They ignored their working class base in favour of metropolitan Guardian-reading vegan types.

It's the same thing the democrats have done here in the USA. It will be interesting after the impeachment to see how things unfold.

 

[Federberg]

It's the same thing the democrats have done here in the USA. It will be interesting after the impeachment to see how things unfold.

Dems better hope and pray a moderate wins. UK is a small 'c' conservative country, as I suspect is the US. All these Sanders/Warren supporters should look at what happened here and quiet down a bit I think. Although Brexit is a cat of a different flavour there does seem to be some momentum to these types of victory. This has to be a good day in Trumpistan

 

[nehmeth]

Dems better hope and pray a moderate wins. UK is a small 'c' conservative country, as I suspect is the US. All these Sanders/Warren supporters should look at what happened here and quiet down a bit I think. Although Brexit is a cat of a different flavour there does seem to be some momentum to these types of victory. This has to be a good day...

It's not in the leftist playbook to quiet down; they only know how to become more shrill. Sensible folks keep their mouths shut and vote. Many in the United States of America are feeling hopeful.

 

[Federberg]

Lucky for them the moderate side seems to be stronger even if less noisy

 

[britbox]

The inquest begins...

 

[calitennis127]

I have to say that it's increasingly comical to hear commentators on the left chastise right-wing voters for being "xenophobic," implying that they aren't worldly. This charge is especially comical when it comes from white Democrats in the United States. Why has no one bothered to point out the irony that Hillary Clinton knows just as many foreign languages as the people she called "deplorables"?

Let's count them out in unison.....

1...…………(there is no 2, or 3, or 4, or 5).

Hillary and Obama both know zero foreign languages.

Which is no more than the gun-totin' Trump voters in Texas.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Dems better hope and pray a moderate wins. UK is a small 'c' conservative country, as I suspect is the US. All these Sanders/Warren supporters should look at what happened here and quiet down a bit I think. Although Brexit is a cat of a different flavour there does seem to be some momentum to these types of victory. This has to be a good day in Trumpistan

Not happening. If you are a relatively moderate lefty, you will be eaten alive, treated worse than Trump. That leftist part of the democratic party scares me more than any other political establishment.

 

[Moxie]

I have to say that it's increasingly comical to hear commentators on the left chastise right-wing voters for being "xenophobic," implying that they aren't worldly. This charge is especially comical when it comes from white Democrats in the United States. Why has no one bothered to point out the irony that Hillary Clinton knows just as many foreign languages as the people she called "deplorables"?

Let's count them out in unison.....

1...…………(there is no 2, or 3, or 4, or 5).

Hillary and Obama both know zero foreign languages.

Which is no more than the gun-totin' Trump voters in Texas.

Obama speaks Indonesian. A lot of people in Texas know more Spanish than most of the rest of the US.

 

[Federberg]

For me the biggest lesson is that this new demand by party activists to pick leaders that their own legislators aren’t comfortable with should end. Say what you want about politicians but they have a survivalists instincts about who is likely to be effective in a campaign. I doubt the Labour Party will learn that lesson. For my part I didn’t want bojo to get a majority because of brexit but I pretty much agree with most other policies he’ll promote. It’s cost me a pretty penny paying lawyers and accountants to protect my loot in the event of a labour win. I just felt so strongly about the free trade implications of brexit. But we are where we are now. I don’t have to live in the UK so I have options. Anyway it’s still going to be incredibly difficult to actually execute brexit. It’s going to be tough sledding from here

 

[Federberg]

The inquest begins...

Too right mate. Apparently Corbyn will stay on and involve himself in the leadership contest. Seems like he hasn’t finished destroying them yet

 

[britbox]

Too right mate. Apparently Corbyn will stay on and involve himself in the leadership contest. Seems like he hasn’t finished destroying them yet

The Labour political apparatus is now dominated by the left-wing of the party. I can't see that changing in the short term, so expect somebody like Rebecca Long-Bailey as their next leader. She ticks the female box (there is a big push internally for Labour to choose a female next time around) and she's also John McDonnell's protege. I suspect the reason Corbyn didn't resign on the spot was so his branch would have a greater hand in the succession.

I'm not a huge fan of Kier Starmer but he's a lot more ballot box friendly, pretty smart, and would likely be the best choice given the drain of talent from the more moderate pool of candidates.

Andy Burnham would have made a really good leader IMO... but that boat has sailed and he's now the Mayor of Manchester. Labour is probably looking at a decade in opposition. I suspect the next leader will be just an extension of the current regime and it'll take a decade to get the message that the voters aren't buying that brand.

The Tories shouldn't be complacent about the northern red wall coming down. It has more to do with a Labour Brexit dissatisfaction and Corbyn's own lack of appeal than anything the Conservatives have done. If you look at the vote swings - the Conservatives made some inroads, but the biggest vote swings in key marginals (particularly in the North East) went from Labour to the Brexit Party... which in turn, let the Conservatives win the seat. Most of those will swing back to Labour in 5 years time.

 

[Federberg]

I think we need to be a bit careful applying the voting rationale of a brexit dominated vote of the northern working class to 2020. Take Bernie for example he seems able to garner the youth vote in the same way Corbyn was able to in the last election. Let’s not get it twisted the specifics of this election with an anti Semitic candidate who sat on the fence on the critical argument is not translatable

 

[britbox]

I think we need to be a bit careful applying the voting rationale of a brexit dominated vote of the northern working class to 2020. Take Bernie for example he seems able to garner the youth vote in the same way Corbyn was able to in the last election. Let’s not get it twisted the specifics of this election with an anti Semitic candidate who sat on the fence on the critical argument is not translatable

I didn't really understand what your point was in this post.

 

[calitennis127]

Obama speaks Indonesian.

Not according to him. This was what he said back in 2008:

"I don't speak a foreign language. It's embarrassing!"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-i-dont-speak-a-foreign-language-its-embarrassing/

But, as a general point, I don't count knowing a foreign language because you grew up in a different country or an insulated immigrant community/household as learning a foreign language (which is not even the case for Obama according to himself). I used to always tell my mother and my aunts that because they grew up in a different country. They came to the U.S. and learned English out of necessity.

My point about Hillary and Obama is that if they are going to talk down on others for being xenophobes, can't they at least learn one foreign language?

Condemning people for xenophobia without knowing a foreign language is akin to condemning other people for being fat while you weigh 350 pounds.

A lot of people in Texas know more Spanish than most of the rest of the US.

Indeed.....and how many Democrats - particularly white Democrats in the Northeast - take that into consideration when they condemn Texans for xenophobia?

It's very similar to how white Democrats in the Northeast condemn Trump-supporting states for "white nationalism" while the states in the Northeast are the whitest in the country. Vermont is 1% black and Massachusetts is only 7% black. Yet white Democrats condemn people in the South for being "white nationalists" when Georgia, South Carolina, Louisiana, and Mississippi all have black populations between 28 and 37%.

 

[Moxie]

Not according to him. This was what he said back in 2008:

"I don't speak a foreign language. It's embarrassing!"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-i-dont-speak-a-foreign-language-its-embarrassing/

But, as a general point, I don't count knowing a foreign language because you grew up in a different country or an insulated immigrant community/household as learning a foreign language (which is not even the case for Obama according to himself). I used to always tell my mother and my aunts that because they grew up in a different country. They came to the U.S. and learned English out of necessity.

My point about Hillary and Obama is that if they are going to talk down on others for being xenophobes, can't they at least learn one foreign language?

Condemning people for xenophobia without knowing a foreign language is akin to condemning other people for being fat while you weigh 350 pounds.



Indeed.....and how many Democrats - particularly white Democrats in the Northeast - take that into consideration when they condemn Texans for xenophobia?

It's very similar to how white Democrats in the Northeast condemn Trump-supporting states for "white nationalism" while the states in the Northeast are the whitest in the country. Vermont is 1% black and Massachusetts is only 7% black. Yet white Democrats condemn people in the South for being "white nationalists" when Georgia, South Carolina, Louisiana, and Mississippi all have black populations between 28 and 37%.

Just because Obama plays down his past fluency in Indonesian, he did live there, and he went to Indonesian schools. More importantly, he lived in a foreign land and culture, which has a tendency to promote a broader outlook beyond one's own culture and nation.

Otherwise, I think you also make a 1:1 comparison that isn't quite accurate. Speaking a foreign language is far from the one indicator that a person isn't xenophobic. I don't think you have a firm grasp of what xenophobia is. It's a fear/loathing of things other/strange/foreign, but not only foreign. It has a cross-over with racism, and can include aversion to minority groups, be they ethnic or also in terms of sexual orientation. It's the opposite of open-mindedness to those who are "other" than oneself. And speaking a language other than English doesn't preclude that.

As to Texans, don't look at me. I lived it Texas and love it. It's a purple state with a large and varied population. I also lived in Louisiana and Mississippi. I do agree that Yankees and other non-Southerners can be rather smug about thinking of Southerners as the only ignorant and racist ones out there, when there is real guilt of institutionalized and otherwise endemic racism all over the country. That has become all too apparent over the last 11 years, and worse in the last 3, with the Enabler-in-Chief, who dog-whistles racist and inflammatory things that do, yes, promote xenophobia. However, the fact that some states have a larger minority population doesn't automatically make them less racist, either. Familiarity (and history) do breed contempt in the Southern states. It's just not only there.