UK Politics Thread

Federberg

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Labour's plan to ban private schools is one of the most colossally stupid things a democratic party has proposed in a while. It's going to become increasingly difficult for the champagne socialists to continue voting for them :D The Lib Dems must be dancing for joy!
 

Vince Evert

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Dear dear me. Brexit has become a long running saga with no end in sight. Where does the UK go from here?


THE STORY IN 700 WORDS


The judges did not simply rule against the prime minister: this was the worst possible outcome for him.

He is already facing calls from political opponents to resign.

The court unanimously declared "the Prime Minister's advice to Her Majesty was unlawful, void and of no effect" when he asked the Queen to suspend parliament.

The decision "had the effect of frustrating or preventing" parliament from carry out its functions, it said, and was like "a blank sheet of paper".

The court decided that the suspension of parliament essentially never happened at all.

BBC legal correspondent Clive Coleman called it legal, constitutional and political dynamite - and said it is difficult to overestimate the significance of the ruling.

How do you close down a parliament?

The Supreme Court made clear it wasn't ruling on Brexit - but simply deciding if the prime minister could lawfully "prorogue" Parliament - a fancy word for suspending it.

It's not an unusual move: new prime ministers usually do that to end one session of parliament and start another, with a new legislative programme. In recent decades, it's usually lasted a week.

But Boris Johnson said the UK would leave the EU on 31 October no matter what - even if the controversial deal with the EU hadn't been agreed. That's hugely controversial, with members of parliament (MPs) both in and out of his party worried that it would cause economic chaos.

After the summer break, there were just two months until the deadline – and then Mr Johnson suspended parliament for an unusually long five weeks, until 14 October.

Chaos ensued.

What were the consequences?

Inside parliament, many of his own party members rebelled against him. More than 20 were expelled from the party. Some jumped ship to rivals. The prime minister's party lost its governing majority. Protests took place in the streets outside.

But in the end, parliament closed, because the prime minister had asked the Queen to do so. That was within the law.

Or so everyone thought.

Legal challenges were filed arguing that the prime minister was trying to silence parliament for his own political gain - and that the whole thing was a ruse.

The problem was that one court in England said the suspension was legal - but another in Scotland said the prime minister had effectively misled the Queen about the whole affair, and was trying to stop parliament holding his government to account.

And so the case landed in the Supreme Court.


What happened in court?

Part of the problem is that the UK doesn't have a written constitution like, say, the US or most other modern democracies. Instead, its constitution is based on hundreds of years of law and convention - which can be difficult to interpret.

A group of 70 Scottish members of parliament (MPs), a vocal campaigner over Brexit, and a former prime minister were all arguing against the government.

There was plenty of colourful language. The lawyer for the Scottish group of MPs told the court it was about the "mother of parliaments closed down by the father of lies" and warned the judges not to trust government documents.

The government's lawyer told the judges that interfering would be "forbidden territory". He warned them they would be walking into an "ill-defined minefield".

In the end, the Supreme Court decided against the government.

What happens next?
Because the suspension was ruled unlawful, parliament is technically still in session, as if the whole thing had never happened. The decision from 11 judges was unanimous.

Parliament could be reconvened straight away.

In its summary, the court said that how that happens is up to the Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow, and his counterpart in the House of Lords.

But when it comes to Brexit, there's a time limit.



As it stands, the prime minister still maintains that he will take the UK out of the EU on 31 October - despite the fact that in the small amount of time they were in session, the parliament passed a law requiring him to ask for yet another extension.

That disagreement could lead to another political crisis, or another election. Or the EU might not agree to an extension even if asked.

And now, more than three years after the Brexit vote, there are just 37 days left to sort it all out.

 

GameSetAndMath

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Politics in the UK might be every bit as dysfunctional as in the US right now, but my goodness the democratic infrastructure and individual politicians seem to be of a higher calibre than in the US. The UK Supreme Court votes unanimously to void Bojo's prorogation. Stunning development. And quite right too!

and unanimous at that. Who appoints judges for UK supreme court? How come there is no left, right division here?
 

Federberg

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^ It's a relatively new thing here. Previously I believe a sub-section of the House of Lords was responsible for constitutional matters, but the feeling was that there was the perception of politicisation. I suspect this is because historically the House of Lords was made up of hereditary peers and they were more likely to be Conservative supporters. So it's no surprise that the Blair government made the reform. In any case I believe... and I'm no expert on this.. that appointments are selected by the Law Lords themselves. I believe that there's far less chance of politicisation in the UK than in the US, but that could easily change over time
 

britbox

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Labour's plan to ban private schools is one of the most colossally stupid things a democratic party has proposed in a while. It's going to become increasingly difficult for the champagne socialists to continue voting for them :D The Lib Dems must be dancing for joy!

Yes, a totally ridiculous proposition... smells of the politics of envy.
 

Federberg

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Yes, a totally ridiculous proposition... smells of the politics of envy.
and now they want to allow foreign nationals living in the UK to vote in general elections. Doesn't that impinge on the sovereignty of citizens? Is it just me or are they misunderstanding one of the fundamental gripes in the case for Brexit?
 

tented

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and unanimous at that. Who appoints judges for UK supreme court? How come there is no left, right division here?
^ It's a relatively new thing here. Previously I believe a sub-section of the House of Lords was responsible for constitutional matters, but the feeling was that there was the perception of politicisation. I suspect this is because historically the House of Lords was made up of hereditary peers and they were more likely to be Conservative supporters. So it's no surprise that the Blair government made the reform. In any case I believe... and I'm no expert on this.. that appointments are selected by the Law Lords themselves. I believe that there's far less chance of politicisation in the UK than in the US, but that could easily change over time

Britain’s brilliant method of picking Supreme Court justices, explained
 

britbox

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In contrast to the previous week, Johnson performed well in yesterday's parliamentary exchanges. I think he'll have a majority to push through his Brexit deal if it stays fairly close to the current proposition. Ireland is playing hardball but this is part of the EU strategy. Barnier and Co were filmed undercover a while ago stating they would use Ireland and the Irish border as a negotiating pawn.

I still don't see any reason for the EU to move right now. They'll sit it out. Johnson probably won't get a deal on the 17th, although there will be negotiations. He'll only get a deal right at the very death... and that's if he comes through the other side of parliamentary chaos and only if there is a serious chance of No Deal.

On another note, Rory Stewart quits and announces his intention to stand as London Mayor.
 

Federberg

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Federberg

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So, they should have another vote, since no poll has shown Leave in the lead since early 2017?
that's what I reckon. But those who fear an altered result claim it would be undemocratic :wacko:
 

Horsa

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that's what I reckon. But those who fear an altered result claim it would be undemocratic :wacko:
I changed my mind about Brexit but think that as the original vote should have been acted upon way before it was it would be undemocratic. It would also mean some people who are eligible to vote would stay at home as they would think there was no point as their votes wouldn't be acted upon again.
 

tented

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I changed my mind about Brexit but think that as the original vote should have been acted upon way before it was it would be undemocratic.

Do you consider it to have been acted upon, since Brexit hasn’t been finalized?
 

Horsa

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Do you consider it to have been acted upon, since Brexit hasn’t been finalized?
I don't consider it acted upon because the people voted out & we're not out.

At 1 time I wanted out because I thought of all we paid to stay in & didn't think we got our moneys worth & I thought about all the rules we had to abide by. (We were going through hard times. I knew some elderly & genuinely disabled people who committed suicide because of new laws which were brought out because of austerity. I saw our elderly & genuinely disabled people struggle. We'd never seen food banks in the U.K. Thanks to these measures we did. I'd seen our people unable to get jobs because employers only employed school-leavers or foreign workers (as some foreign workers don't know what their rights are when it comes to minimum wages & are willing to work for less.). This is illegal but was happening because I saw it with my own eyes. They wouldn't admit to it of course & made other excuses. I can understand that some businesses were struggling which was why they were doing it. I thought the money we paid to stay in the E.U. could go towards getting our own country on its feet again. I thought we could have gone back to the ways we worked before we joined & get our factories up & running again & grow our own food for our own people again like we did in the past before the E.U. existed.(I know we've been trading with other countries & hardly been self-sufficient throughout history. I mean we traded with the Phoenicians & the East India company in the past as 2 examples. I was never racist like some scoundrels who used Brexit as a reason to be nasty to foreigners. I've got foreign friends.) I also thought our people could work for our country I realised that things would be more expensive in the short term but we could save all the money we pay the E.U. in the long-term. (I was a full-time carer at the time & didn't have time to really check things out.) Freedom of movement was also a big decider as there had been quite a few terrorist attacks at the time & thought that if we had more power to stop foreigners who we deemed to be at risk from coming into our country we'd be safer. Since then I've realised we get more benefits than we were led to believe & as a result I've changed my mind.
 
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Federberg

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UK and EU thrash out a deal at the death. Now the fun and games begin in the House of Commons.
yup. Cable (GBP/USD) ripped higher from 1.22 last Thursday to a high of almost 1.2990 this morning. I think we've seen the lows for cable for years and years to come
 

britbox

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Johnson doesn't have the votes for the Commons yet. Could change pretty quickly though. The EU could refuse an extension and it's a done deal. Deal v No Deal. Given the hysteria employed by the Remain camp on a No Deal, it would be a hard backtrack to vote down a deal if No deal is the only alternative.
 

Federberg

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Johnson doesn't have the votes for the Commons yet. Could change pretty quickly though. The EU could refuse an extension and it's a done deal. Deal v No Deal. Given the hysteria employed by the Remain camp on a No Deal, it would be a hard backtrack to vote down a deal if No deal is the only alternative.
I believe ze Germans have already said that even if both sides are in agreement that an extension will be necessary
 
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