The Ultimate FEDAL (Wars) Thread

[Nadalfan2013]

Nadalfan2013 is right bro if Nadal was coaching Federer in Wimbledon final he would have won because Nadal has a tennis genius mind, he would clamed Federer down to play the right shot at the right time. Also million of people would a agree, just happy for Nadal he's going to become the greatest coach of all time then he's career ends in 7 years with 30 slam titles.

Corrected.

 

[brokenshoelace]

All this idiocy about Nadal "coaching". Are you all for real? What he told him was a statement and not coaching and something he damn well knows already cos it's based 100% on how Federer already plays. "You're winning the shorter rallies under 5 shots". Well, wow, give the man a cookie.

Federer has been playing first strike tennis for years now and I think he pretty much knows if he hits a serve that isn't an ace there's a good chance the next shot is an easy put away. Do people really think Roger needs to be told not to rally if he can avoid it ?! The Nadal camp have hit a new low. Very low

Who's "you all"? There's literally one guy trying to give Nadal credit for that and it's the same moron who gives Nadal credit for the sun rising in the morning. My post was obviously not implying that Nadal's coaching allowed Federer to win...

It's meant to use your often cited logic about Nadal's coaching and how stupid it is and turn it against you. If you think Nadal's basic advice to Federer was irrelevant to the match outcome even though it happened at every changeover (and I agree with you by the way) then how can Toni yelling a few words from the stands have ANY effect on the match outcome?

I have to spoonfeed you guys everything, Jesus.

 

[Front242]

Who's "you all"? There's literally one guy trying to give Nadal credit for that and it's the same moron who gives Nadal credit for the sun rising in the morning. My post was obviously not implying that Nadal's coaching allowed Federer to win...

It's meant to use your often cited logic about Nadal's coaching and how stupid it is and turn it against you. If you think Nadal's basic advice to Federer was irrelevant to the match outcome even though it happened at every changeover (and I agree with you by the way) then how can Toni yelling a few words from the stands have ANY effect on the match outcome?

I have to spoonfeed you guys everything, Jesus.

Because what Nadal said to Federer wasn't coaching, it wasn't advice but a mere fact that he knew anyway and therefore helped him in no way whatsoever. He knows damn well if he hits a good serve the point is over in max a few shots anyway if not an ace. Easy put away like I said earlier. Toni's hand signals on the other hand are not a fact that he already knew. He hand gestures Nadal to move forward, return from closer to the baseline or hit to the backhand.

There is no comparison between help in strategy eg example 2 (Nadal) and a mere passing comment about something he knows already (Nadal's talk to Federer). "You're winning the shorter rallies 5 shots or under." No shit, Sherlock. That's what first strike tennis aims for. Shorter points.

What's Nadal's next amazing tip. Roger, you are 38, don't play long rallies lol.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Because what Nadal said to Federer wasn't coaching, it wasn't advice but a mere fact that he knew anyway and therefore helped him in no way whatsoever. He knows damn well if he hits a good serve the point is over in max a few shots anyway if not an ace. Easy put away like I said earlier. Toni's hand signals on the other hand are not a fact that he already knew. He hand gestures Nadal to move forward, return from closer to the baseline or hit to the backhand.

There is no comparison between help in strategy eg example 2 (Nadal) and a mere passing comment about something he knows already (Nadal's talk to Federer). "You're winning the shorter rallies 5 shots or under." No shit, Sherlock. That's what first strike tennis aims for. Shorter points.

What's Nadal's next amazing tip. Roger, you are 38, don't play long rallies lol.

Good Grief...the truce is Over..you are just one sick blood hound

 

[brokenshoelace]

Because what Nadal said to Federer wasn't coaching, it wasn't advice but a mere fact that he knew anyway and therefore helped him in no way whatsoever. He knows damn well if he hits a good serve the point is over in max a few shots anyway if not an ace. Easy put away like I said earlier. Toni's hand signals on the other hand are not a fact that he already knew. He hand gestures Nadal to move forward, return from closer to the baseline or hit to the backhand.

There is no comparison between help in strategy eg example 2 (Nadal) and a mere passing comment about something he knows already (Nadal's talk to Federer). "You're winning the shorter rallies 5 shots or under." No shit, Sherlock. That's what first strike tennis aims for. Shorter points.

What's Nadal's next amazing tip. Roger, you are 38, don't play long rallies lol.

So now you're assuming to know: A) that Nadal's coach actually makes hand gestures, B) what these hand gestures actually mean, and C) that Nadal was not aware of whatever these hand gestures are aiming to tell him.

Incredible.

But for my own curiosity (and sanity), may I ask, how do you know any of this and based on what?

 

[Front242]

So now you're assuming to know: A) that Nadal's coach actually makes hand gestures, B) what these hand gestures actually mean, and C) that Nadal was not aware of whatever these hand gestures are aiming to tell him.

Incredible.

But for my own curiosity (and sanity), may I ask, how do you know any of this and based on what?

Are you seriously trying to tell me you've never seen the camera focus on Toni waving his hands about only to stop when they show him on the big screen? It's been pointed out by many commentators also and I never once recall hearing a commentator state Federer was getting coaching from his box. Not once.

You really think if someone moves their hand in a forward pushing motion it isn't plain as day obvious what that means? Move forward. Duh. And yes, I'm quite sure the supposed genius with amazing tennis IQ Nadal did NOT know about these necessary changes till told to do so. He's been miles behind the baseline and getting crushed in the past only for Toni to signal he needs to change his position on ROS and move in closer to the baseline cos he's too dense to work it out for himself.

If things aren't going his way he always has the option of leaving the court to take a shit before his opponent serves for the match or changing his bandages before his opponent serves for the match when they apparently never bothered him before that. He's a master strategist.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Are you seriously trying to tell me you've never seen the camera focus on Toni waving his hands about only to stop when they show him on the big screen? It's been pointed out by many commentators also and I never once recall hearing a commentator state Federer was getting coaching from his box. Not once.

You really think if someone moves their hand in a forward pushing motion it isn't plain as day obvious what that means? Move forward. Duh. And yes, I'm quite sure the supposed genius with amazing tennis IQ Nadal did NOT know about these necessary changes till told to do so. He's been miles behind the baseline and getting crushed in the past only for Toni to signal he needs to change his position on ROS and move in closer to the baseline cos he's too dense to work it out for himself.

If things aren't going his way he always has the option of leaving the court to take a shit before his opponent serves for the match or changing his bandages before his opponent serves for the match when they apparently never bothered him before that. He's a master strategist.

Advice or coaching to Roger..who cares ..it worked from Rafa

 

[Moxie]

There has always been a fine-line between cheerleading and "coaching," during matches. I frankly have a hard time believing that a coach in the stands has anything to tell a player anything that they don't already know. There is a game-plan, and whether or not the player is executing is on the player. The box is largely moral support, no matter even if someone thinks there is coaching going on. I also think that on-court coaching is mostly cheerleading and moral support. There might be an opportunity to pass along something that the "coach" (Rafa, Roger, Borg, McEnroe, Kyrgios) is seeing from the outside, to offer as an adjustment. But I think it's mostly just reinforcing the known, and telling the player that s/he's doing great and to keep fighting. A respite from feeling alone out there. Perhaps a bit of clarity. Not really anything else.

 

[tented]

There has always been a fine-line between cheerleading and "coaching," during matches. I frankly have a hard time believing that a coach in the stands has anything to tell a player anything that they don't already know. There is a game-plan, and whether or not the player is executing is on the player. The box is largely moral support, no matter even if someone thinks there is coaching going on. I also think that on-court coaching is mostly cheerleading and moral support. There might be an opportunity to pass along something that the "coach" (Rafa, Roger, Borg, McEnroe, Kyrgios) is seeing from the outside, to offer as an adjustment. But I think it's mostly just reinforcing the known, and telling the player that s/he's doing great and to keep fighting. A respite from feeling alone out there. Perhaps a bit of clarity. Not really anything else.

Based on the on-court coaching shown during changeovers in WTA matches, you’re right — it’s a lot of “You know what to do,” “Keep doing what you’ve been doing,” “Get more aggressive returning second serves,” “You knew she was going to do X, so don’t let it bother you,” etc. Mostly, though, it’s cheerleading, as you said.

 

[Fiero425]

Based on the on-court coaching shown during changeovers in WTA matches, you’re right — it’s a lot of “You know what to do,” “Keep doing what you’ve been doing,” “Get more aggressive returning second serves,” “You knew she was going to do X, so don’t let it bother you,” etc. Mostly, though, it’s cheerleading, as you said.

Very true; the player invariably already knows what to do, but it does help to be reminded! IDK why that's the case, but it is! I played tennis for exactly 30 years, started teaching as an assistant within 5! I taught myself to play with the strategies seen in matches I watched on TV! I was fairly successful, got a lot of pub, and the game was the center of my world until the mid 20's when I had to take life more seriously! If off the court for any real length of time, I "lost it" and would actually ask and need someone to remind me to even breathe properly! I had this habit of holding my breath doing the exertion of running around and hitting the ball! Of course I burned out faster doing that, but needed the reminder! :whistle:

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Some people even needed to be coached to eat banana. We can't underestimate what people wouldn't know to do themselves.

 

[Jelenafan]

My favorite coaching was Oracene yelling to Serena “ get out of Melbourne!” when she was standing too far back with the city name on the back side floor of the tennis court.

 

[Moxie]

It seems we're agreed: coaching, on-court or not, legal or not, does essentially nothing to effect the outcome of a match. It's all just glorified cheerleading. The one who has to play the match is on court, and basically alone.

 

[Front242]

It seems we're agreed: coaching, on-court or not, legal or not, does essentially nothing to effect the outcome of a match. It's all just glorified cheerleading. The one who has to play the match is on court, and basically alone.

Is that how this works. About 4 people agree so we all agree. Good to know. Democracy eh? There's a reason on court coaching is banned in men's tennis. Maybe that might change your mind. Probably not but it should.

 

[Moxie]

Is that how this works. About 4 people agree so we all agree. Good to know. Democracy eh? There's a reason on court coaching is banned in men's tennis. Maybe that might change your mind. Probably not but it should.

I think it was a reasonable conversation about how coaching works, while players are in the heat of it. I.e., that it doesn't make much difference. Yes, there is a reason that coaching is banned in men's tennis, except when there is a rain delay. So it's not completely banned. Personally, I'm not for on-court coaching during regular matches, at least for women unless they institute it for men, as well. But it does seem to slow down play. And I don't think it's that helpful.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Are you seriously trying to tell me you've never seen the camera focus on Toni waving his hands about only to stop when they show him on the big screen? It's been pointed out by many commentators also and I never once recall hearing a commentator state Federer was getting coaching from his box. Not once.

You really think if someone moves their hand in a forward pushing motion it isn't plain as day obvious what that means? Move forward. Duh. And yes, I'm quite sure the supposed genius with amazing tennis IQ Nadal did NOT know about these necessary changes till told to do so. He's been miles behind the baseline and getting crushed in the past only for Toni to signal he needs to change his position on ROS and move in closer to the baseline cos he's too dense to work it out for himself.

If things aren't going his way he always has the option of leaving the court to take a shit before his opponent serves for the match or changing his bandages before his opponent serves for the match when they apparently never bothered him before that. He's a master strategist.

Wait wait wait wait wait...you're telling me that Rafael FUCKING NADAL is unaware of the need to sometimes move forward on the return? One of the greatest tennis players of all time is unaware of this ultra complicated advice? You actually think the guy who owned your GOAT's soul for the majority of his career, beat him into tears and gives you PTSD to this day, the guy who stepped up to Federer and wiped the floor with him when everyone else thought he was literally unbeatable, is, and I quote, "too dense to work it out for himself"?

Man, I wish we had a worst post of the year poll...then again, with the amount of garbage lately, it's a good thing we don't.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Is that how this works. About 4 people agree so we all agree. Good to know. Democracy eh? There's a reason on court coaching is banned in men's tennis. Maybe that might change your mind. Probably not but it should.

Maybe you should see how on court coaching works in women's tennis. It's some of the most basic shit ever and rarely affects the outcome of the match.

Anyway, the closer Nadal gets to Roger, the more you'll need something to hang on to. So keep telling yourself that Toni motioning for Nadal to move forward changed the course of tennis history...that makes sense.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Some people even needed to be coached to eat banana. We can't underestimate what people wouldn't know to do themselves.

Don't be so hard on your boy. He may have choked hard in the Wimbledon final but we don't know that it was on a banana.

 

[Front242]

Wait wait wait wait wait...you're telling me that Rafael FUCKING NADAL is unaware of the need to sometimes move forward on the return? One of the greatest tennis players of all time is unaware of this ultra complicated advice? You actually think the guy who owned your GOAT's soul for the majority of his career, beat him into tears and gives you PTSD to this day, the guy who stepped up to Federer and wiped the floor with him when everyone else thought he was literally unbeatable, is, and I quote, "too dense to work it out for himself"?

Man, I wish we had a worst post of the year poll...then again, with the amount of garbage lately, it's a good thing we don't.

Considering some of the site's biggest Nadal tards seem to think telling Federer he's winning the rallies under 5 shots was helpful I say there are much better choices out there. For the last time, Federer knows damn well if he hits a good serve the point is over in the next couple of shots and he doesn't need Rafa freaking Nadal to tell him that. Ministry of the bleeding obvious.

As GSM pointed out he (Nadal) had to be told to eat a banana in a match before so you give him too much credit for his intelligence. So did Dopapova.

 

[Moxie]

As usual, point whizzed right past you.