The Ultimate FEDAL (Wars) Thread

Front242

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As usual, point whizzed right past you.

Really? Um no. His uncle has on multiple occasions been caught on camera telling him to move forward and he only did it then. I don't for one second succumb to the notion of his supposed amazing tennis IQ. After slagging Federer for failing to capitalize on the 2 match points at Wimbledon, the site's biggest Nadal tards had no comeback when I said Nadal the great quickly found himself in a major rut in the USO final. If he's so great then how did that happen? Because he's not. He got lucky Medvedev squandered his break points.
 

brokenshoelace

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Considering some of the site's biggest Nadal tards seem to think telling Federer he's winning the rallies under 5 shots was helpful I say there are much better choices out there. For the last time, Federer knows damn well if he hits a good serve the point is over in the next couple of shots and he doesn't need Rafa freaking Nadal to tell him that. Ministry of the bleeding obvious.

As GSM pointed out he (Nadal) had to be told to eat a banana in a match before so you give him too much credit for his intelligence. So did Dopapova.

Why on earth are you going on about the Federer thing? My point was strictly about Nadal/Toni and coaching. Of course Federer doesn't need Nadal's basic advice to win a tennis match. Jesus.

My point is how insanely dumb it is to believe that Toni motioning for Nadal to move forward is some revolutionary tip that Nadal himself "can't make out on his own."

Also I love how you took GSM's joke and gave it face value as if it bolsters your point.
 

brokenshoelace

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Really? Um no. His uncle has on multiple occasions been caught on camera telling him to move forward and he only did it then. I don't for one second succumb to the notion of his supposed amazing tennis IQ. After slagging Federer for failing to capitalize on the 2 match points at Wimbledon, the site's biggest Nadal tards had no comeback when I said Nadal the great quickly found himself in a major rut in the USO final. If he's so great then how did that happen? Because he's not. He got lucky Medvedev squandered his break points.

So let's examine this:

1) According to you guys, he's not as good a shot-maker as some of the other players on tour (ridiculous, only 2 guys at the most are better, but I'll play along).

2) He doesn't have a great tennis IQ.

3) He feels the need to cheat to win by wasting time, change bandages, and call medical TMO's.

4) He's so dumb he doesn't understand that he needs to move forward without his uncle telling him to do so (and apparently is so dumb that despite playing hundreds of matches, still needed his uncle to tell him that, instead of figuring out that it works).

Can someone please explain how a player who suffers from ALL of the above is currently the second most successful tennis player of all time? Something doesn't add up here.


You can say you don't buy Nadal's tennis IQ, but you never actually back it up with anything. So here's some concrete tennis talk:

1) Nadal is by far the best player in the world in terms of shot selection. Nobody else comes close. He almost literally never picks the wrong shot. Whether it's knowing when to change direction and go up the line, go for a wrong footer, when and how to use the slice, when to attack the net, etc... He also has BY FAR the best sense of when to use the drop shot. Almost never uses it at the wrong time. These are things you have to do in a split second during the rally. You can't pause the rally to look at your uncle, as I'm sure you're aware.

2) Nadal, despite not having a great serve, is amazing at using his serve smartly. In fact, no other player would have ever maximized the success of a largely unremarkable serve the way he did. Be it placement, spin, when and how to change things up (how many times does he go up the T on break points on the ad side? Just ask Federer). And this was all before he improved the speed of his serve. The way he uses it to set up the points is uncanny.

3) Nadal's adjustments in terms of how he returns are spot on. I am not just referring to his positioning on the return, but what he actually does with it. When he chips it, when he runs around the backhand on second serve, when he hits it loopy and deep, when he goes for it...In fact, in almost all of Nadal's matches in which he's struggling to read or return his opponent's serve well, he finishes the match by returning much better, further proving how great he is at adjusting.

4) His anticipation is out of this world. I really don't have to say more in that regard. Again, these are instinctive things and decisions that can only be made in the heat of the moment. Split second decisions mid rally. People are way too simplistic: They see him hit a great passing shot for example, and only focus on the explosiveness, speed, and athleticism aspect of it. What they neglect is the anticipation it takes for him to guess where the approach is going. You don't always have the luxury of seeing where the ball is going then making your move, especially in defensive positions. Obviously anticipation isn't limited to that but I can go on forever about other examples.

5) Nadal, at this point in his career, plays with the second most variety on tour. Yes, I am 100% responsible for this. He's got more tools in his arsenal in terms of variety than anyone not named Roger. Whether it's his overall net play (which I've always called overrated but at his point he's legit one of the better volleyers on tour), his great slice (which has improved so much over the years) which he uses A LOT, the occasional moonballs (legit moonballs, not the ones Cali calls moonballs), drop shots, serve and volley tactics, being able to defend, stepping up and attacking, hitting with different spins (who else has such a heavy loopy backhand yet also have one of the better flat cross court backahnds on tour?), the ability to do anything with the forehand, etc...

Now variety alone isn't necessarily an indication of IQ, but the way he's able to use it is what sets him apart. Why is Nadal almost always able to set up his forehand? It's because he knows how to perfectly compliment it by using the rest of his game to set up his main strength, and this goes back to when his game was far more limited and less diverse than it is now.

6) His point construction is the best on tour, and only Djokovic compares (prime Federer is obviously up there but he was such a terrific shot maker that it often eclipsed that aspect).

7) Nadal is the best at winning matches in which he's getting "outplayed." I mean even you guys can't dispute that since this is what you all lament. And how do you think he's able to accomplish that? Simply by being a wall and running for hours? At his age now? You don't think it takes a lot of intelligence to navigate matches in which your opponent is outhitting you? Do you have any idea how much problem solving this requires?

So, Front, if you feel the need to explain to me why you think these points are invalid and how they're not indicative of tennis IQ, I'm all ears. Otherwise, please stop with the ridiculous bias. It's pretty embarrassing.
 

Jelenafan

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the site's biggest Nadal tards had no comeback when I said Nadal the great quickly found himself in a major rut in the USO final. If he's so great then how did that happen? Because he's not. He got lucky Medvedev squandered his break points.

It’s posts like these that make me wonder if you ever played sports much less even understand the nature of competitive sports.

Coming back from adversity and even your own missteps to still be able to overcome and even triumph is part and parcel of the athlete’s struggle.
 
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Moxie

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So fun. Did Roger actually say, "you little guys...I'm gonna break you." ??
 

Nadalfan2013

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After reading many online comments by Federer fans about next year, 2 things are basically recurrent:

1) they are counting on Djokovic to protect Federer’s slam record from Nadal.

2) they are also counting on Nadal to protect Federer’s most weeks at no.1 record from Djokovic.

It’s like they will be rooting for one or the other depending on the situation... It’s kind of hilarious (and sad) if you ask me. :lol6:
 

Moxie

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After reading many online comments by Federer fans about next year, 2 things are basically recurrent:

1) they are counting on Djokovic to protect Federer’s slam record from Nadal.

2) they are also counting on Nadal to protect Federer’s most weeks at no.1 record from Djokovic.

It’s like they will be rooting for one or the other depending on the situation.

While I agree with #1, I'm not sure about #2. Firstly, a lot of the Fed Fans around here would not root for Nadal under any circumstance. Also, there's a decent chance that Nadal takes over #1 ranking this year, anyway. Novak needs 41 weeks to pass Roger for most weeks overall, but he'll never catch him at consecutive weeks. I think they're resigned to the notion that Novak could pass Fed for overall weeks.

But if we're going to read the minds of Fed fans, the one I think they've been gaming is hoping that Novak would pass Nadal in number of Majors, but not pass Roger. Just wedge himself in between, in order to take some of the stink off of their rivalry and Nadal's dominance of it. Problem is, right now, there's no room for that. Obviously, Federer's fans want him to win a couple more Majors to protect the legacy from his nearest rivals of this era. That's been stated frankly. My personal theory is that they'd also like for that to happen, and for Novak to pass Rafa, but not Roger. Whether or not that's "their" thinking, either individually or collectively, I have no way of knowing. But I would understand it, if it were.
 
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the AntiPusher

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After reading many online comments by Federer fans about next year, 2 things are basically recurrent:

1) they are counting on Djokovic to protect Federer’s slam record from Nadal.

2) they are also counting on Nadal to protect Federer’s most weeks at no.1 record from Djokovic.

It’s like they will be rooting for one or the other depending on the situation... It’s kind of hilarious (and sad) if you ask me. :lol6:
The name a few years ago I gave Novak is the "Gatekeeper"of Roger's legacy. If all things holds true, Rafa will meet Novak again at the AO 20 final..My thoughts are Rafa will play with more calm and aggression because now he can open up his shoulders and attack Novak because he has secured #18 & #19.
 
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Moxie

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The name a few years ago I gave Novak is the "Gatekeeper"of Roger's legacy. If all things holds true, Rafa will meet Novak again at the AO 20 final..My thoughts are Rafa will play with more calm and aggression because now he can open up his shoulders and attack Novak because he has secured #18 & #19.
I'd love to buy this, but it's hard. Rafa was tense, knowing the stakes, playing Medvedev. I have a hard time thinking, should he meet Novak in the final at the AO, that he'd feel any freer. I'd say likely less. Only thing is, Novak will have even more pressure, given that it's his best slam, and he's got catching up to do. Long way to go until then. Let's see how everyone is looking by the end of the year, at least.
 

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I'd love to buy this, but it's hard. Rafa was tense, knowing the stakes, playing Medvedev. I have a hard time thinking, should he meet Novak in the final at the AO, that he'd feel any freer. I'd say likely less. Only thing is, Novak will have even more pressure, given that it's his best slam, and he's got catching up to do. Long way to go until then. Let's see how everyone is looking by the end of the year, at least.

At this point it’s inevitable, every Majors match these guys play ( I include Methuselah) is weighted with soo much pressure, ramifications, Majors career count, etc.

The pressure will not lessen for any of these guys, how can it?
 
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Moxie

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At this point it’s inevitable, every Majors match these guys play ( I include Methuselah) is weighted with soo much pressure, ramifications, Majors career count, etc.

The pressure will not lessen for any of these guys, how can it?
I have to say that I'm surprised by the extent to which even Roger, Rafa and Novak acknowledge the GOAT race, at this point. And I think the pressure of it became obvious at Wimbledon, when Roger couldn't close, and at the USO, when Rafa, having it almost on a plate, was a bundle of nerves. He closed the deal, but made it much harder than it needed to be. And I don't think Novak will be impervious, going forward. The sands of the hourglass are going down, and I think they'll all feel it.
 
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Fiero425

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At this point it’s inevitable, every Majors match these guys play ( I include Methuselah) is weighted with soo much pressure, ramifications, Majors career count, etc.

The pressure will not lessen for any of these guys, how can it?

The one that seems the most relaxed is Nole IMO! He won 3 majors in a row out of nowhere; all in straight sets! Then he defended his Wimbledon title with match points against him! The summer was a bust, but expected even without the injury to his shoulder! He's always had trouble repeating in NY; who has since Fed over 10 years ago? Hopefully this will continue to be a battle between Nadovic while Roger quietly fades as Med, Thiem, & Tsitsipas make a move with a little sprinkling of Khachanov & Coric! It would be nice anyway! :whistle: :oops: :rolleyes:
 

Moxie

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The one that seems the most relaxed is Nole IMO! He won 3 majors in a row out of nowhere; all in straight sets! Then he defended his Wimbledon title with match points against him! The summer was a bust, but expected even without the injury to his shoulder! He's always had trouble repeating in NY; who has since Fed over 10 years ago? Hopefully this will continue to be a battle between Nadovic while Roger quietly fades as Med, Thiem, & Tsitsipas make a move with a little sprinkling of Khachanov & Coric! It would be nice anyway!

You, forever the champion of the next gen, until it comes to Novak. Does he really seem the most relaxed? He declared outright that he's chasing the GOAT thingy. And he's behind. Huge pressure on him this AO coming. And it's not like he's never succumbed to pressure. He did a full 2-year walkabout after winning his Nole Slam. Relaxed? I doubt it.
 

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nadal is 123-23 in sets this season, so that's a 123 sets won to just 23 lost, sometimes I think nadal is superhuman, this guy having a epic season.
 

brokenshoelace

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The name a few years ago I gave Novak is the "Gatekeeper"of Roger's legacy. If all things holds true, Rafa will meet Novak again at the AO 20 final..My thoughts are Rafa will play with more calm and aggression because now he can open up his shoulders and attack Novak because he has secured #18 & #19.

This implies that Nadal not playing well at last year's AO had anything to do with the overall Grand Slam record. If you think Nadal was thinking of that while he was 3 full slams behind Federer, then you don't know how he operates. Nadal was nervous, didn't play well, and Novak took him absolutely to the cleaners...something he's done in the past multiple times.
 

Nadalfan2013

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The one that seems the most relaxed is Nole IMO! He won 3 majors in a row out of nowhere; all in straight sets! Then he defended his Wimbledon title with match points against him! The summer was a bust, but expected even without the injury to his shoulder! He's always had trouble repeating in NY; who has since Fed over 10 years ago? Hopefully this will continue to be a battle between Nadovic while Roger quietly fades as Med, Thiem, & Tsitsipas make a move with a little sprinkling of Khachanov & Coric! It would be nice anyway! :whistle: :oops: :rolleyes:

These players (besides Coric) have all beaten Djokovic recently... So this is not good news for Novak, he's the one having the most trouble with the next gen... :rolleyes: Add to that list the likes of Kyrgios, Bautista Agut, Zverev… Many players can overpower Novak these days... :yes: But Nadal has a more unique game with so much diversity, he is handling the new gen the best... :good:
 
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Fiero425

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These players (besides Coric) have all beaten Djokovic recently... So this is not good news for Novak, he's the one having the most trouble with the Next Gen... :rolleyes: Add to that list the likes of Kyrgios, Bautista Agut, Zverev… Many players can overpower Novak these days... :yes: But Nadal has a more unique game with so much diversity, he is handling the new gen the best... :good:

I guess I need to explain myself yet again; it was relaxed, not the most dominating that I said of Djokovic! He's quite vulnerable IMO; happens when you WIN a lot! The more you win the more vulnerable you are to a loss; even from a lower ranked player! When you win 4 of 5 majors, there's no place else to go! He was bound to have a lull in his motivation so I wasn't distressed or even surprised he went down at the USO! Time will tell how it'll all wash out by the end of the season! It's still "way" up in the air! :whistle: :yesyes: :eek: :oops: :rolleyes: