The Ultimate FEDAL (Wars) Thread

[Moxie]

But the consistency was shockingly good

Not sure why you say "but," because the consistency was indeed, shockingly good.

 

[DarthFed]

I think the only SF they played on clay was RG 2005. And when they played Hamburg it was a MS 1000. (Both finals.) That they played so many finals is not so shocking when you think that they were, one or the other, #1 or #2 in the world for a solid 6 years.

They played semi of Madrid 2011 as well

 

[DarthFed]

In fairness, he started by beating Roger on HCs. Parsing it however you want, it doesn't work out that well for Roger until recently.

Yes he won the first match bravo, they played quite a lot on HC after that even before 2013 and Federer still had an edge until his worst season where Rafa munched on his corpse 4 times.

 

[DarthFed]

Why?

Davis Cup is a separate deal based on home court advantage and chosen surface from whatever country is hosting the match. Most players in the YEC are not playing in the Davis Cup final. Switching to a vastly different surface for YEC will make the quality of play poor as well. Not everyone can transition without serious practice/warmups.

 

[Moxie]

Yes he won the first match bravo, they played quite a lot on HC after that even before 2013 and Federer still had an edge until his worst season where Rafa munched on his corpse 4 times.

They've both had some time of "munching on each other's corpse," to be fair. Except to Roger`s benefit, he got a couple of Major's out of it in '09.

 

[Moxie]

Yeah I saw you make the comparison to Davis Cup, still makes no sense

Why? If the year is finished, and players are willing to change surfaces for DC, why not mix it up for YEC?

 

[DarthFed]

They've both had some time of "munching on each other's corpse," to be fair. Except to Roger`s benefit, he got a couple of Major's out of it in '09.

Are you purposely being this dense? We are talking H2H, keep your other bitterness out of this.

 

[DarthFed]

Why? If the year is finished, and players are willing to change surfaces for DC, why not mix it up for YEC?

Players aren't "willing" to switch, they are forced to switch. And again we are talking about a separate team event, one that oftentimes doesn't affect any players that qualify for YEC.

 

[Moxie]

Davis Cup is a separate deal based on home court advantage and chosen surface from whatever country is hosting the match. Most players in the YEC are not playing in the Davis Cup final. Switching to a vastly different surface for YEC will make the quality of play poor as well. Not everyone can transition without serious practice/warmups.

(Sorry, I responded before I saw this. Let's make it this one.) It's not at all true that players in the YEC are not playing DC. If you need me to, I could list it, but many of the countries in recent DC finals had at least one player in the YEC. So that's not an excuse. Switching to a different surface would be exactly the same as doing it in DC, and a lot of top players have done it. They seem to be willing to, faced with winning for their country. What's the difference, then, when playing for themselves?

 

[DarthFed]

That seems unusually sharp and out of context. You mentioned Rafa getting up on Roger in 2013, when he was playing hurt. I only mentioned the same shift in H2H in 2009, when Rafa was likewise playing hurt. What bitterness are you citing? I thought it was a fair parallel.

They didn't play in 2009 after Rafa got hurt...

 

[Moxie]

Players aren't "willing" to switch, they are forced to switch. And again we are talking about a separate team event, one that oftentimes doesn't affect any players that qualify for YEC.

Since 2008, DC has involved Spain, Serbia, Switzerland, GBR, Czech Republic, France and Argentina. Top 3-4 players have played in some of those finals, many of those ties, and none have not involved top players, so don't say that it doesn't affect the YEC.

 

[DarthFed]

There are 8 players at YEC and DC has affected at most two players a couple of those years.

 

[Moxie]

They didn't play in 2009 after Rafa got hurt...

I get your point, but take mine: if you're saying that Rafa got a chance to get up on Wodge when he was playing hurt, same can be said when Rafa was out of commission. Only that it doesn't affect the H2H.

 

[Moxie]

There are 8 players at YEC and DC has affected at most two players a couple of those years.

I don't see your point. Or you've lost mine. If we cut the year off at Paris/Bercy, and leave DC/YEC stand-alone, then why does either have to be on one particular surface?

 

[DarthFed]

And same can be said about USO this year, we all know who would've been heavy favorite without the injury. Not as heavy as Rafa at RG but still the clear favorite if his back didn't go gimpy before USO.

 

[DarthFed]

I don't see your point. Or you've lost mine. If we cut the year off at Paris/Bercy, and leave DC/YEC stand-alone, then why does either have to be on one particular surface?

Simple, you're comparing the 5th most important singles tournament of the year to a team event where one country (the host) decides the surface based on what is most advantageous to its own players.

All other big events in the year have warmup events to help prep. If you move YEC to a different surface then Paris and other indoor tournaments are no preparation.

 

[Moxie]

Simple, you're comparing the 5th most important singles tournament of the year to a team event where one country (the host) decides the surface based on what is most advantageous to its own players

Except that you haven't addressed why that would mean, even still, that they can't switch surfaces?

 

[DarthFed]

Because it doesn't make sense to move it for all the reasons I've said. The only call to move it is coming from self-serving fans and coach of a self-serving player. That should say it all.

 

[Carol]

Looking numbers.......before 2017 Federer has beaten Nadal in HC: 2 times in Outdoor and 6 Indoor
Nadal has beaten Federer in HC: 8 times in Outdoor and 1 Indoor
This year (2017) ............. Federer has beaten Nadal in HC 4 times
Total: Federer has beaten Nadal 6 times in HC Outdoor and Nadal has beaten Federer 8 times in HC Outdoor

 

[Moxie]

Because it doesn't make sense to move it for all the reasons I've said. The only call to move it is coming from self-serving fans and coach of a self-serving player. That should say it all.

You haven't said any really good reasons, and I have, I think. Which you haven't addressed.

I'll give you examples: Paris/Bercy finishes early November. That's the end of the year. YEC can be any time before 1 Jan of the next. Could be a complete one-off and rotating between continents and hemispheres. Why not? And, thereby, it could change between outdoor/indoor and surfaces. What would be wrong with that? Honest to god, you whinged endlessly just about the slowing of the grass this year. You'd be out of your head if the last tournament of the year were always played on clay. Why would it be so bad if it rotated, not just surfaces, but locations? It kind of is the floater between the Majors. Why should there be yet another one on HC? And yes, why couldn't it be alternatingly on grass?