The Ultimate FEDAL (Wars) Thread

Moxie

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  1. 15 of their 38 matches played on clay and almost all of those (save two???) in a Masters or Roland Garros final. Wow!
I think the only SF they played on clay was RG 2005. And when they played Hamburg it was a MS 1000. (Both finals.) That they played so many finals is not so shocking when you think that they were, one or the other, #1 or #2 in the world for a solid 6 years.
 

I.Haychew

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Same like I can't understand why the WTF is playing in the same surface, I think it's very unfair because it could be much better to play in different surfaces, Indoor and outdoor, and on clay, HC and grass too

To make it fair...Each and every tournament should rotate/change its surface every year. Or maybe play the WTF on a surface unique to the WTF...Maybe shag carpet, or hardwood floor, or tile, or glass, or linoleum, or rubber, or sandpaper of some sort.
 
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Moxie

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To make it fair...Each and every tournament should rotate/change its surface every year.
Obviously you are being snarky, and this will never happen. But you can to some extent understand the frustration of Nadal fans (and others) that the YEC is always played on Indoor HC. I get that it fits that way into the calendar, although, you could argue that the calendar could end any way that it wanted to, at that point. If you take out the YEC, indoor HCs fall below 20% of the calendar, while clay is fully 30% +. Two Majors are on HC, 1 on clay and one on grass. It can be argued that indoor HCs are over-valued by having the next highest tournament always played on that surface. Each tournament is not going to change its surface, but there is no reason that the YEC couldn't change surfaces, on a rotating basis. Players play DC on various surfaces at the end of the year.
 

Ricardo

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Why is 10 Slams on HCs a superior result? Rafa has 10 Slams on clay, so that's seems equal. And what is your version where Roger has the edge in the H2H? Roger's resume has many advantages, to be sure, but Rafa has the others: most consecutive years winning a Major (a record,) first player to hold Majors on all 3 surfaces, Golden Slam, 10 x 3 tournament wins (3x record)...and the H2H v. Roger, and most of the field. Rafa was also the only of the Big 4 to hold the H2H record against them all. It's not without merit.

Oh Moxie before you come squirting at me, the context was about hard court only....otherwise the H-H wouldn't be in Feds favor if clay is included, we all know how lopsided their record is. I disputed carols claim that they are equal on hardcourt if that annoys you.
 

Ricardo

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Obviously you are being snarky, and this will never happen. But you can to some extent understand the frustration of Nadal fans (and others) that the YEC is always played on Indoor HC. I get that it fits that way into the calendar, although, you could argue that the calendar could end any way that it wanted to, at that point. If you take out the YEC, indoor HCs fall below 20% of the calendar, while clay is fully 30% +. Two Majors are on HC, 1 on clay and one on grass. It can be argued that indoor HCs are over-valued by having the next highest tournament always played on that surface. Each tournament is not going to change its surface, but there is no reason that the YEC couldn't change surfaces, on a rotating basis. Players play DC on various surfaces at the end of the year.
If one was being fair, it should be on grass as that's the only major surface of historical significance that's under-represented.
 

Moxie

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Oh Moxie before you come squirting at me, the context was about hard court only....otherwise the H-H wouldn't be in Feds favor if clay is included, we all know how lopsided their record is. I disputed carols claim that they are equal on hardcourt if that annoys you.
Clay doesn't get excluded. And Rafa had the edge on HC until this year. That could easily change again.
 

Ricardo

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I think the only SF they played on clay was RG 2005. And when they played Hamburg it was a MS 1000. (Both finals.) That they played so many finals is not so shocking when you think that they were, one or the other, #1 or #2 in the world for a solid 6 years.

But the consistency was shockingly good
 

Ricardo

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Clay doesn't get excluded. And Rafa had the edge on HC until this year. That could easily change again.

The comparison was about hardcourt, in which case clay does get excluded. Also the comparison is about current record, not a point in time if you can comprehend. So Feds much better slam results on hard court says he is better on hard, any dispute?
 

I.Haychew

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Obviously you are being snarky, and this will never happen. But you can to some extent understand the frustration of Nadal fans (and others) that the YEC is always played on Indoor HC. I get that it fits that way into the calendar, although, you could argue that the calendar could end any way that it wanted to, at that point. If you take out the YEC, indoor HCs fall below 20% of the calendar, while clay is fully 30% +. Two Majors are on HC, 1 on clay and one on grass. It can be argued that indoor HCs are over-valued by having the next highest tournament always played on that surface. Each tournament is not going to change its surface, but there is no reason that the YEC couldn't change surfaces, on a rotating basis. Players play DC on various surfaces at the end of the year.

Require every player to play the same number of tournaments on each surface during the year, then I wouldn't have a problem with the WTF rotating surfaces yearly. As it is, IMO, the WTF is, and should be, its own entity. I wouldn't have a problem if they decided that they wanted to switch to any surface of their choosing.
 
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DarthFed

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Clay doesn't get excluded. And Rafa had the edge on HC until this year. That could easily change again.

Did you see the posts where Carol laughably said the only surface Federer is superior on is indoors? She said it multiple times that yes, Rafa is just as good as Roger on grass and hardcourts.
 

DarthFed

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Obviously you are being snarky, and this will never happen. But you can to some extent understand the frustration of Nadal fans (and others) that the YEC is always played on Indoor HC. I get that it fits that way into the calendar, although, you could argue that the calendar could end any way that it wanted to, at that point. If you take out the YEC, indoor HCs fall below 20% of the calendar, while clay is fully 30% +. Two Majors are on HC, 1 on clay and one on grass. It can be argued that indoor HCs are over-valued by having the next highest tournament always played on that surface. Each tournament is not going to change its surface, but there is no reason that the YEC couldn't change surfaces, on a rotating basis. Players play DC on various surfaces at the end of the year.

The lead up tournaments are on indoor hardcourts. What sense does it make to suddenly play on outdoor clay as a certain self-serving player and his fanbase like to argue on an annual basis? And like Ricardo said, if you want to argue about least represented surfaces then they could play YEC on grass and it'd likely be indoors too in mid-November. I'm sure Nadal would've fared just as "great" there
 

Moxie

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If one was being fair, it should be on grass as that's the only major surface of historical significance that's under-represented.
You can insist on the "historical significance" of grass, but unless the ATP/ITF backs it up with tournaments, you're just being nostalgic. We tennis geeks enjoy a bit of Halle and Queens (both 500s), but I'd challenge you to even remember the names of the other grass tournaments, before and after Wimbledon. (s'Hergen...whatever, Eastbourne? and Newport. Name me the others.) Whereas, clay has 3 x 1000s, which everyone watches. But yes, I would say, make grass one of the rotating surfaces for the YEC. That's my point, actually.
 

Moxie

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Did you see the posts where Carol laughably said the only surface Federer is superior on is indoors? She said it multiple times that yes, Rafa is just as good as Roger on grass and hardcourts.
I take no responsibility for Carol's comments.
 

Moxie

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The lead up tournaments are on indoor hardcourts. What sense does it make to suddenly play on outdoor clay as a certain self-serving player and his fanbase like to argue on an annual basis? And like Ricardo said, if you want to argue about least represented surfaces then they could play YEC on grass and it'd likely be indoors too in mid-November. I'm sure Nadal would've fared just as "great" there
(See my above.)
 

DarthFed

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Clay doesn't get excluded. And Rafa had the edge on HC until this year. That could easily change again.

Roger had the overall edge on HC until the gifts of 2013, you act like he was always beating Roger on hards
 

Moxie

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You praise the point that the end of the year finishes with indoor HCs. But you don't take into account that it doesn't really matter where they finish. Davis Cup doesn't. It's very Euro-centric to make it end on indoor HCs, and in London. It doesn't have to be that.
 

Moxie

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Roger had the overall edge on HC until the gifts of 2013, you act like he was always beating Roger on hards
In fairness, he started by beating Roger on HCs. Parsing it however you want, it doesn't work out that well for Roger until recently.