The Ultimate FEDAL (Wars) Thread

[Moxie]

I am pumping up this thread since we have a Fedal war going on right now destroying the Paris thread.

By the way that discussion made me compile the H2H like this:

On clay:

13 x 2 Nadal

Indoors:

5 x 1 Federer

Rest

9 x 8 Nadal

Obviously people already broke it down in a gazillion ways but like this you have one dominant surface for each and a pretty close result on the rest. Explains a lot in a few lines. Now please carry on folks.

Good effort at deflecting the conversation, but apparently it didn't work. #sorrynotsorry

 

[Front242]

Because it’s the next important tour at the final of the year I don't see the reason that has to be always in the same surface, there are too many HC already so after Asia and Paris it should be to be played in diferent surfaces

The others are outdoor hard court and this is indoor. The players have to show they can play on ALL surfaces which means the tour needs a big tournament on that surface and the WTF is it.

 

[Moxie]

You're still going on about h2h to measure achievements on hard court lol. How about a better stat for determining this 'cos your argument is total bs as usual...

Nadal
1 Australian Open
3 x US Opens
2 x Wimbledons

Federer
5 Australian Opens
5 x US Opens (5 consecutive years)
8 x Wimbledons (5 consecutive)

Since you laughably claimed they are as good as each other on everything except clay I added the grass results too. The above sure looks pretty equal to me!

In fairness, Carol was talking about their h2h and you're talking about their general resumes. They aren't direct comparisons. No one disputes (or forgets) Roger's overall resume, but she's making a specific point about how they've played each other. Indoor HC isn't really in question, but HCs has been, in general.

 

[DarthFed]

In fairness, Carol was talking about their h2h and you're talking about their general resumes. They aren't direct comparisons. No one disputes (or forgets) Roger's overall resume, but she's making a specific point about how they've played each other. Indoor HC isn't really in question, but HCs has been, in general.

No, she was talking overall. Read her posts again.

 

[Front242]

In fairness, Carol was talking about their h2h and you're talking about their general resumes. They aren't direct comparisons. No one disputes (or forgets) Roger's overall resume, but she's making a specific point about how they've played each other. Indoor HC isn't really in question, but HCs has been, in general.

Yes, because she posted they are equal on everything except clay. If she meant h2h then that's what she should have posted but she didn't. Most of us here will just say she meant what she said and it's a laughable claim and was yet another laughable post.

 

[DarthFed]

You haven't said any really good reasons, and I have, I think. Which you haven't addressed.

I'll give you examples: Paris/Bercy finishes early November. That's the end of the year. YEC can be any time before 1 Jan of the next. Could be a complete one-off and rotating between continents and hemispheres. Why not? And, thereby, it could change between outdoor/indoor and surfaces. What would be wrong with that? Honest to god, you whinged endlessly just about the slowing of the grass this year. You'd be out of your head if the last tournament of the year were always played on clay. Why would it be so bad if it rotated, not just surfaces, but locations? It kind of is the floater between the Majors. Why should there be yet another one on HC? And yes, why couldn't it be alternatingly on grass?

Wow this is incredibly childish. "Your points suck but look at my solid logic"

And then you come up with an idea for them that would shorten their offseason even more. Seriously you are reaching badly, and how have I not made a good point that the last few weeks of the season are indoor tournaments so it makes sense that the YEC should also be indoors. Remember this is the 5th biggest event, there is zero logic suddenly switching to a clay or grass court for the event. It'd be a poorly played event on top of everything else.

 

[Front242]

It seems hardcore Nadal fans are having a hard time digesting the fact that indoor and outdoor are completely different and therefore the argument that there are already enough tournaments played on hard courts is null and void. Indoor has a totally different low bounce and zero weather elements. How can that be compared to playing on an outdoor court in windy conditions with balls bouncing much higher?! Just 'cos a certain player can't play indoors doesn't mean they should change the WTF surface...

It's currently the 5th most prestigious tournament on tour and needs to stay indoor so the players can show they can play on ALL surfaces.

 

[Federberg]

In fairness, Carol was talking about their h2h and you're talking about their general resumes. They aren't direct comparisons. No one disputes (or forgets) Roger's overall resume, but she's making a specific point about how they've played each other. Indoor HC isn't really in question, but HCs has been, in general.

I think you missed a large part of the discussion yesterday. I can well understand your defending Rafa, but you appear to be trying to defend Carol who clearly said that Rafa is as good as Roger on hardcourts and grass. Do you believe that to be so? You can look at my explanation to Carol about why that makes no sense at all, but I would love to hear from you... do you agree with Carol?

 

[mrzz]

Good effort at deflecting the conversation, but apparently it didn't work. #sorrynotsorry

I was not trying to deflect the conversation, in fact I just remembered good old wise Murat had created this thread to save the others from the Fedal wars. I pumped it up by trying to add something to conversation... but, yeah, it didn't work.

 

[Carol]

You're still going on about h2h to measure achievements on hard court lol. How about a better stat for determining this 'cos your argument is total bs as usual...

Nadal
1 Australian Open
3 x US Opens
2 x Wimbledons

Federer
5 Australian Opens
5 x US Opens (5 consecutive years)
8 x Wimbledons (5 consecutive)

Since you laughably claimed they are as good as each other on everything except clay I added the grass results too. The above sure looks pretty equal to me!

Since the beginning of this discussion I was talking about HC OUTDOOR, no indoor, grass or clay. About grass I said that after to play and to win most of the tournaments on clay it´s very difficult to jump to grass in perfect conditions, otherwise I believe that Rafa would have had better results

 

[Federberg]

Since the beginning of this discussion I was taking about HC OUTDOOR, no indoor, grass or clay

DarthFed said: ↑

So just to be clear you think Rafa is superior on grass, fast hards, and slow outdoor hards? Not surprised to see you aren't so good at basic math. There's no curing this kind of "special"

I've never said that Rafa is "superior' on those surfaces but he is as good as your idol, he has showed many times that he can beat Federer and not only on clay and I hope that he continues do it and now more than ever

That's your response to DarthFed's clear question... Are you backtracking now? It's ok if you are, I just want to know...

 

[Carol]

Donskoy

DarthFed said: ↑

So just to be clear you think Rafa is superior on grass, fast hards, and slow outdoor hards? Not surprised to see you aren't so good at basic math. There's no curing this kind of "special"

I've never said that Rafa is "superior' on those surfaces but he is as good as your idol, he has showed many times that he can beat Federer and not only on clay and I hope that he continues do it and now more than ever

That's your response to DarthFed's clear question... Are you backtracking now? It's ok if you are, I just want to know...

Read my last comment, I added something else about grass. And yes I keep saying the same, Nadal is as good as Federer in HC OUTDOOR and in grass is very questionable in spite of his bad results

 

[Federberg]

Donskoy

Read my last comment, I added something else about grass. And yes I keep saying the same, Nadal is as good as Federer in HC OUTDOOR and in grass is very questionable in spite of his bad results

And you make that claim on the basis of H2H? You do realise that's about match up right? That doesn't tell you how good a player is. You get that from the amount of titles you win. Don't bother responding... I sense you'll believe what you want to believe. Life's too short!

 

[DarthFed]

Donskoy

Read my last comment, I added something else about grass. And yes I keep saying the same, Nadal is as good as Federer in HC OUTDOOR and in grass is very questionable in spite of his bad results

Let's compare their notable results on outdoor HC:

Australia: 5-1 Fed
Indian Wells: 5-3 Fed
Miami: 3-0 Fed
Canada: 3-2 Nadal
Cincy: 7-1 Fed
USO: 5-3 Fed
Shanghai ( yes it is an outdoor tourney which I didn't realize myself until a few years ago) : 2-0 Fed

This doesn't even include other smaller events like Dubai (7-1 Fed) and it is still clear. Your math is a little off...

And grass it is 17 titles to 4 including 8-2 at Wimbledon. Seriously, this is ridiculous even for you.

 

[britbox]

Since the beginning of this discussion I was talking about HC OUTDOOR, no indoor, grass or clay. About grass I said that after to play and to win most of the tournaments on clay it´s very difficult to jump to grass in perfect conditions, otherwise I believe that Rafa would have had better results

Well, it's a results business and Rafa isn't on the same page as Federer on grass. There isn't any comparison.

 

[Carol]

Let's compare their notable results on outdoor HC:

Australia: 5-1 Fed
Indian Wells: 5-3 Fed
Miami: 3-0 Fed
Canada: 3-2 Nadal
Cincy: 7-1 Fed
USO: 5-3 Fed
Shanghai ( yes it is an outdoor tourney which I didn't realize myself until a few years ago) : 2-0 Fed

This doesn't even include other smaller events like Dubai (7-1 Fed) and it is still clear. Your math is a little off...

And grass it is 17 titles to 4 including 8-2 at Wimbledon. Seriously, this is ridiculous even for you.

I see you want to continuos ......this is my last comment about it , WE ARE IN PARIS !!!!!. My point was and is about the results of both players playing against in HC OUTDOOR Rafa has better numbers

 

[the AntiPusher]

A few surprises on the first day in Paris. Chung laid a beatdown on Brother Zverev. The result wasn't wholly surprising but the scoreline was. Shapovalov and Paire make early exits... Simon gone and Johnson thrashed by Haase.

He was for a quick moment but he can't even carry Roger's jockstrap on grass..

 

[the AntiPusher]

Yeah.....like in Basel ? . I see that you are not very optimist about Rafa vs Federer but I do, forget about Shanghai, we can blame just Rafa playing so many matches in a very short time

Carol..It’s not about confidence but rather the hardcourts and indoor surfaces play well to roger’s Strengths whereas the same would be said about clay for Rafa but we all know Roger refuses to challenge Rafa again on that surface,.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Lol! Guys why do you engage with her?

Really.. its the other way.. None of you guys acknowledge Rafa winning the US open or when he does well at a tournament but You want Carol to salute Roger winning efforts or achievements..not really fair

 

[Federberg]

Really.. its the other way.. None of you guys acknowledge Rafa winning the US open or when he does well at a tournament but You want Carol to salute Roger winning efforts or achievements..not really fair

With the greatest of respect, review my comments after Rafa won. My take was that Fedal were crushing it, and it was pure BS to credit their success to injured players. Don't try to group me in with anyone else. I've always made clear my conviction that Rafa is an absolute beast. What I don't understand is how anyone can suggest that Rafa's hardcourt or grass credentials are remotely comparable to Federer's. It's just absurd. And the idea that you can base a players stature on a surface on H2H is idiocy. By that argument you might as well say that Adriano Pannatta is a superior player to Borg at RG. See how stupid that is?