The Rankings Thread (ATP)

[herios]

New career high this week:

27. Jack Sock. 22y
58. Hyeon Chung. 19y
84. Ruben Bemelmans. 27y
87. Daniel Munoz-De la Nava. 33y
89. Marco Cecchinato. 22y

 

[DarthFed]

Careful now when you talk about people racking up slams while not beating great players in their prime. How many of Novak and Rafa's slams have been against opponents well past their prime or opponents who weren't even great in the first place? And we could say that about any era. It amounts to nothing but sour grapes.

Well, you never have to be careful when you speak the truth, and it's very true that Roger banged out over a dozen slams without beating a single great player in their prime.

Was Roger in his prime in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008? Rafa beat him in all those years, and in 2009 Roger won 2 slams, and reached a further 2 finals, and Rafa beat him in Oz.

Nole beat Rafa in 2011 and Oz in 2012, then Rafa beat Nole in Paris in 2012, and then beat the world #1 on hards at the USO. These boys took a rough road, but Nole is heading into a similar situation to the one Roger faced in his early years: his toughest match at Flushing Meadows was a 34 year old. That was kinda like Wodger ten years earlier. Both of them made heavy weather of light work, but whatever...

Fact is every player in history has won slams against what you may consider players who aren't great. Thing to remember is they got to the finals because they were playing great, beating everyone they faced. Would people not agree Cilic was an absolute beast last year? But yet he's not by any means great. Nadal has won slams against Puerta and Berdych ffs! You can't have it both ways.

Kieran is understandably bitter that his boy is playing like a total scrub at age 29. Meanwhile Roger is annoying him by playing as any reasonable human expected him to play at age 34. Clearly someone had their hopes up that Roger would disappear over night while what was clear is that Roger was so far ahead of the field that a shell of himself is still better than 99% of the tour. Rafa was never anywhere near as dominant as Roger was in his prime and that's a fact. Even his best years (2008, 2010 and 2013) featured losses to the likes of Darcis, Tsonga and Murray. Guys who wouldn't test Roger in the least when he was at his best.

 

[kskate2]

New rankings for Monday, October 5, 2015.

 

[Kieran]

Federer is not a shell of himself, and he's defying age and history by remaining so high in the rankings. Heck, he's defying age by implementing this SABR thingy. That takes the reflexes and speed of a stripling. Nothing to him!


Top 8, as of now:

1. Djokovic
2. The Deathless One
3. Murray
4. Stan
5. Berdych
6. Kei
7. Ferrer
8. Rafa

 

[herios]

New career highs this week:

46. Mikhail Kukushkin 27y
54. Aljaz Bedene 26y
55. Hyeon Chung 19y
67. Denis Kudla 23y
82. Marco Cecchinato 23y

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

the deathless one...ilikeit!

 

[isabelle]

Ferrer wins one seat

 

[Kirijax]

Federer loses 1000 points after this week so Murray will take over the No. 2 spot next week!

Monday's ATP Rankings

Live ATP Rankings

 

[herios]

Federer loses 1000 points after this week so Murray will take over the No. 2 spot next week!

Monday's ATP Rankings

Live ATP Rankings

Shanghai points are taken off one week earlier (the whole calendar slid one week for months by now)
The # 2 will be disputed in Shanghai next week between Roger and Andy.

 

[Kirijax]

Federer loses 1000 points after this week so Murray will take over the No. 2 spot next week!

Monday's ATP Rankings

Live ATP Rankings

Shanghai points are taken off one week earlier (the whole calendar slid one week for months by now)
The # 2 will be disputed in Shanghai next week between Roger and Andy.

Heart says Murray but Mind says Federer. Hope it's a good SF clash.

 

[isabelle]

C'mon Andy, you can be N°2 again, don't waste this opportunity

 

[El Dude]

Kevin Anderson is currently #10 in the live rankings, which would be a career high for him if he can maintain it. 29 really seems to be the new 24. I might have to do a study of aging patterns.

Anyhow, I agree with you Kieran that Roger isn't a "shell" of himself. He's not the player he was in 2004-07, or even 2003-09, but he is still great. It is hard to quantify it in numbers, but I think he's about 85-90% of the player he was in his prime. A "shell" would be 2013, which was maybe 70-75%.

Anyhow, how about some actual numbers. Here is a chart that shows Federer's overall win%, slam win %, and a "weighted win%" - which is the average of the first two numbers ("weighted" meaning it is putting more weight on the Slams).

A couple interesting things to point out.

At his very best, the percentages are pretty close. Look at 2004-06. They start separating in 2007 when Roger's overall record dropped substantially, although he was just as good at Slams. There's a real separation from 2007 to 2009, but then it comes back closer from 2010-12, and then starts separating again.

From 2010-15 his performance level is quite similar, with the main difference being that the last two years his Slam results have been inferior compared to 2010-12.

So I think from this we can see that Roger is much reduced from his best form (2004-07), and even somewhat reduced from 2008-09, but he's not a "shell" of his best self. That would be 2013.

 

[Fiero425]

C'mon Andy, you can be N°2 again, don't waste this opportunity

I well thought Andy was the legitimate #2 before Wimbledon! He had won a couple titles on clay, beating Nadal along the way, and took Nole to 5 sets at the FO! Even though he won Canada, his 2nd half has been a real disappointment; allowing the old man to school him when it really counted! I just checked live rankings to see he pulled himself above Roger, but he's got to do something soon to hold on! Just making a final in Shanghai or Paris won't be enough! The YEC might decide it between him and Andy; to hold Nole's rackets! ;-)

 

[kskate2]

Well let's face it. No one's beating Novak at the O2. :nono They're all playing for a Thanksgiving platter.

 

[Kieran]

C'mon Andy, you can be N°2 again, don't waste this opportunity

I well thought Andy was the legitimate #2 before Wimbledon! He had won a couple titles on clay, beating Nadal along the way, and took Nole to 5 sets at the FO! Even though he won Canada, his 2nd half has been a real disappointment; allowing the old man to school him when it really counted! I just checked live rankings to see he pulled himself above Roger, but he's got to do something soon to hold on! Just making a final in Shanghai or Paris won't be enough! The YEC might decide it between him and Andy; to hold Nole's rackets! ;-)

Andy is a disappointment this year. No way he should be still "going away" in big matches. He played well against Federer for most of the Wimbledon semifinals, until the latter end of every set, where he basically deferred. It was a dereliction of duty. Sure, it could be a confidence thing, but even still, losing in straights every time he faces Federer is embarrassing...

 

[El Dude]

I don't know if he's as much a disappointment, Kieran, as he re-established himself as what he is: a nearly great player, between the Federer/Nadal/Djokovic group and the rest of the herd. He had about a year and a half from mid-2012 to late 2013 when he stepped up to a coeval level with those guys, but other than that he's always been a step behind.

He's also had one of his best years in terms of winning percentage, has two Masters--which he hasn't done since 2011--and is much improved over 2014. So its hard to call it a disappointment. I realize it is disappointing for him and his fans to not win a Slam, but he's had a good year overall.

 

[Kieran]

It's true, Dude. I suppose it's frustrating because he hasn't reached his 2012-2013 levels yet. In big matches, he defers, which he'd stopped doing under Lendl. I always wish Andy well, and I hope next year he makes a louder rumble at the slams. Especially, he needs to work seriously hard in matches against the real contenders...

 

[Kirijax]

As a Murray fan. yes I'm disappointed that he didn't win a Slam. What fan isn't? But he is fighting for the No. 2 spot after finishing No.6 last year. He made the final of the AO and the SF at Wimby and RG. He won four titles this year, including two Masters. He finally won on clay, winning two title in Munich and Madrid. He beat Djokovic at last in Montreal. He has a great chance to lead Great Britain to a their first Davis Cup in 79,000 years. And he still has a chance for maybe another Masters and the WTF coming up. Very tough to be disappointed about a year like this!

 

[Kieran]

He's getting hammered by an octogenarian, that's a teensy bit disappointing, no? Okay, so the Deathless One is ridiculously, eh, conditioned, but even still, Muzza should be dispatching him in routine straights.

And so should Novak...

 

[Front242]

Murray should not be routinely dispatching Roger Federer in straight sets and hence why he's not. And neither should Novak and hence why he's not also. Roger Federer is no journeyman even at 34.