The Rankings Thread (ATP)

[Fiero425]

Dude, you're too hard on the young guys and put so much weight on individual losses. It almost seems that if a young player isn't an insta-Borg, they're a complete failure.

I'm speaking more in my comparison to Courier! Brooksby's game is too tied up in bravado and overconfidence! He gets all psyched up to take the cover off the ball, but if the shots don't fall in, he doesn't have much of a back up game to stay in a match; hence his embarrassing defeat to Diego! That's why it seems I'm hard on him! It's much too early to be applauding himself when his opponent hits a DF or bad UFE! That's being a D!CK!

 

[El Dude]

I'm speaking more in my comparison to Courier! Brooksby's game is too tied up in bravado and overconfidence! He gets all psyched up to take the cover off the ball, but if the shots don't fall in, he doesn't have much of a back up game to stay in a match; hence his embarrassing defeat to Diego! That's why it seems I'm hard on him! It's much too early to be applauding himself when his opponent hits a DF or bad UFE! That's being a D!CK!

OK, fair enough, but Courier is, what, one of the 20 best players of the Open Era? And the funny thing is, you're both bagging on Brooksby for being too like Courier, and thus also criticizing Courier, even though he had a better career than all but about 15-20 players in the Open Era.

I think we all tend to be too harsh on players, to varying degrees. It is as if we've set our bar so high, that anything less than all-time greatness is sub-par. I think this is the "Holy Trinity effect." I mean, it is easy to look back at guys like Becker and Edberg and think they're not all that, even though they were both great players and just outside the top 10 of the Open Era.

We do it with guys like Tsitsipas and Zverev, ignoring the fact that both are not only still very young, 23 and 24 respectively, but already quite accomplished. Just using UTS's GOAT points, Tsitsipas is already at #76, right between Todd Martin and Andres Gimeno, and Zverev is #41, between Rafter and Noah. This implies that they're going to end up with very impressive careers. Yet because they haven't been able to take hold of the tour from the three greatest players of the Open Era, they're disappointing.

And because Brooksby might have some of the same faults as Courier, a top 20 all-time player, he's worthy of bagging on.

 

[El Dude]

I'm a bit confused with the rankings right now. The Live Rankings and Live Race Rankings are quite different.

Can anyone make sense of it? I guess we'll know the final rankings after the Finals, but everyone else should be pretty much locked in.

 

[Fiero425]

I'm a bit confused with the rankings right now. The Live Rankings and Live Race Rankings are quite different.

Can anyone make sense of it? I guess we'll know the final rankings after the Finals, but everyone else should be pretty much locked in.

One ranking is still holding points from last season! It'll all "jive" in a week after ATP YEC is over!

 

[El Dude]

One ranking is still holding points from last season! It'll all "jive" in a week after ATP YEC is over!

Yeah, a bit more research and it seems the live rankings are the accurate ones. Which means that unless someone withdraws from the WTF, Sinner is locked in at #9 and Rafa at #10. If on the off chance two players withdraw and both Norrie wins a single RR, Rafa is pushed out of the top 10 for the first time since 2005. But that's unlikely.

 

[El Dude]

Felix officially made it to the top 10 this week, although will be knocked out by Sinner after the WTF.

 

[tented]

Felix officially made it to the top 10 this week, although will be knocked out by Sinner after the WTF.

I hope he took a screenshot!

 

[El Dude]

I hope he took a screenshot!

Haha, nice one.

Maybe Felix needs to hire Julien "Benneteau-for-10" as his coach.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Ruud's loss in Turin,this is the ATP Top Ten ,( we have our year in 2020)

1. Djokovic
2. Medvedev (4)
3.Zverev (7)
4.Tsitsipas (6)
5.Rublev (8)
6.Nadal (2)
7.Berrettini (10)
8.Ruud (27)
9.Hurkacz (34)
10. Sinner (37).

2 Italian men in the Top 10,been a long time coming.

 

[El Dude]

I'm still confused about the rankings. I realize those are the current live rankings, but they differ so much from the live race rankings. They should be the same at this point no?

 

[Fiero425]

I'm still confused about the rankings. I realize those are the current live rankings, but they differ so much from the live race rankings. They should be the same at this point no?

Timing? Some points from 2019-20 still clinging to the rankings? Davis Cup points from last season? Corruption?

 

[El Dude]

Timing? Some points from 2019-20 still clinging to the rankings? Davis Cup points from last season? Corruption?

Funny. But I think I figured it out, based on this article.

While they stopped using the pandemic method after Cincinnati in August, all tournaments before that won't come off until next year when the tournament rolls around.

This is kind of silly, imo, and leads to situations like Roger Federer holding onto a YE #16 ranking, despite only playing in 5 tournaments. So taking him as an example, here's what he did this year vs. the points he gets:

2021 Tournaments
Doha QF (45 points)
Geneva 2R (0)
Roland Garros 4R (180)
Halle 2R (45)
Wimbledon QF (360)

2021 Points
Australian Open 2020 SF (720)
Wimbledon 2019 F (600)
Roland Garros 2021 QF (360)
Miami Masters 2019 W (500)
Madrid Masters 2019 QF (90)
Halle 2019 W (250)
Doha 2021 QF (45)

So as you can see, he still has points on from 2019, which won't come off until those tournaments are played next year. Also, he's only getting half points for some tournaments. I think the way the system works is that a player gets the best result from 2019-21, although only half points when it isn't the most recent tournament they played of that event (e.g. Roger has 600 points for the 2019 Wimbledon Final, or half 1200, rather than the 360 he got this year for his QF finish; but he gets all 720 points from his 2020 AO SF finish, because he didn't play it in 2021).

So Roger finishes the year at #16, despite earning only 630 points this year, which places him #79 in the Race rankings (thus Holger Rune's complaint; he's #69 in the Race rankings with 713 points earned this year, but finishes #108 with 715 points). Roger enters 2022 with 2385 points to defend, including 720 for his SF at the 2019 AO.

Rafa finishes the year #6, although is #10 in the Race rankings. So to move to him as an example, his 2022 Roland Garros results will replace his 2020 points (1000, or half for not being the most recent year), but his 2022 Rome results will replace 2021 (1000 points), because the system uses his 2021 result because they were more points than 2019 or 2020 would have been.

Rafa enters 2022 with 4875 points to defend, and only needs to defend his 2020 AO QF (360) and 2020 Acapulco W (500) early on.

The bottom line: Ignore the Race rankings; the live rankings are correct, and represent the year-end rankins.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I hope he took a screenshot!

"Post of the year candidate".. absolutely Brilliant Tented.

 

[Moxie]

Funny. But I think I figured it out, based on this article.

That didn't link to anything for me. Did I do something wrong?

 

[Mile]

Can someone check, if Djoker holds the record in one strange stat - holding No. 1 with least tours, 14 this year !? I doubt Fedal have it ?!

 

[El Dude]

Can someone check, if Djoker holds the record in one strange stat - holding No. 1 with least tours, 14 this year !? I doubt Fedal have it ?!

I'm not sure what you're asking by "least tours," but here are two things that might answer your questions:

Years at #1
Roger (9): 2004-10, 2012, 2018
Rafa (10): 2008-11, 2013-14, 2017-20
Novak (10): 2011-16, 2018-21

Week Spans at #1
Roger: 237, 48, 17, 6
Rafa: 46, 56, 39, 26, 6, 4, 19, 13
Novak: 53, 48, 122, 52, 7, 66

Oh wait, I think you mean fewest tournaments, yes? Not sure, but maybe. When Roger reached #1 in June of 2018, he had played only 12 tournaments in the last 52 weeks:

2017: Wimbledon, Canada, US Open, Shanghai, Basel, Tour Finals, 2018: AO, Rotterdam, Indian Wells, Miami, Stuttgart, Halle

 

[El Dude]

Rafael Nadal reached #1 on October 7, 2013, with 14 tournaments in the past 52 weeks.

 

[Mile]

Rafael Nadal reached #1 on October 7, 2013, with 14 tournaments in the past 52 weeks.

I mean fewest per calendar year and to be at end placed as No.1 This work with July and to calculate back to July is strange

Nadal in 2013 had 18 tours : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Rafael_Nadal_tennis_season

 

[Moxie]

I mean fewest per calendar year and to be at end placed as No.1 This work with July and to calculate back to July is strange

Nadal in 2013 had 18 tours : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Rafael_Nadal_tennis_season

That's not what you said, though. And El Dude did the work for you. Even though...oh, look, you can look things up for yourself! Anyway, interesting way of looking at a trip to #1, and they'll not that far off.

 

[shawnbm]

On another note, I watched Agassi-Federer from 2003 ATP round robin event last night. Boy, that was fun to watch. I didn’t know who won; I could not recall. Federer 8-6 in third set tiebreak.