The Rankings Thread (ATP)

[tennisville]

Aside from blaming China for the virus, which seems unnecessary here, you're right: the ATP had to come up with a formula, and they can't go a la carte deciding who gets to keep points and who doesn't. Plus, there is no way of knowing if COVID played into his decision not to travel to Miami. He has 4 children, a wife and elderly parents. To come to the US for one tournament might not be that appealing. I actually wonder if Rafa will bow out, too. (Giving Medvedev another and better shot at #2, btw, Front.) Besides who MORE than Roger deserves to keep his points? He has nearly 25 (?) years of excellent service to the game. The rules give other accommodations for years of service and matches played.

That's the whole beauty of the original ATP Ranking System, points were given out on Merit and performance and definitely not for service to the game for 25 years

 

[Moxie]

That's the whole beauty of the original ATP Ranking System, points were given out on Merit and performance and definitely not for service to the game for 25 years

Right, but now some tournaments are cancelled, with no chance to recoup points. Not everyone has the same chance to defend them. The ATP had to figure out something, and this is what they figured out, a rolling 2 year system. You can like it, or complain about it, but it is their system, for now.

 

[tennisville]

Right, but now some tournaments are cancelled, with no chance to recoup points. Not everyone has the same chance to defend them. The ATP had to figure out something, and this is what they figured out, a rolling 2 year system. You can like it, or complain about it, but it is their system, for now.

I know its their system

I just also want to praise them that the YE#1 will only be based on 2021 results and not on previous years. That is a good decision and I hope that it stays like that. Same thing for the qualification to Turin. Hope the rules don't change secretly

 

[Moxie]

Djokovic becomes sole owner of the weeks at #1 record as of today, and Medvedev becomes the first #2 not named Federer, Nadal, Djokovic or Murray since 2005.

 

[El Dude]

The number of players who reached #2 but never #1 is relatively small: Medvedev is only the twelfth player to do so, joining Orantes, Rosewall, Vilas, Ashe, Stich, Ivanisevic, Chang, Korda, Corretja, Norman, and Haas (That's ATP rankings era, 1973 to present - Rosewall would have reached #1 in the 50s-60s, but he was 38 when the rankings started).

I suspect Medvedev will get some time at #1, though, once Novak slows down and it becomes a free-for-all scramble.

 

[Moxie]

The number of players who reached #2 but never #1 is relatively small: Medvedev is only the twelfth player to do so, joining Orantes, Rosewall, Vilas, Ashe, Stich, Ivanisevic, Chang, Korda, Corretja, Norman, and Haas (That's ATP rankings era, 1973 to present - Rosewall would have reached #1 in the 50s-60s, but he was 38 when the rankings started).

I suspect Medvedev will get some time at #1, though, once Novak slows down and it becomes a free-for-all scramble.

Wertheim had some interesting letters and comments to that effect in this week's Mailbag. General conversation about best players never to reach #1 (ATP and WTA.) He said this, though I will post the whole link:

....perhaps the greatest men's singles player to never (officially) reach No. 1: Guillermo Vilas. On the women's singles side, surely Hana Mandlikova must be considered one of the greatest to not reach No. 1. And while we're at it, let's raise a glass to those who end up on these lists. They had amazing careers and should be remembered for more than just these unfortunate stats.
—Chris

• Great post. These aforementioned players had tremendous careers, you are right. And the achievement of the No. 1 ranking can be a combination of luck and circumstance—points fall off, a player gets injured, a player reduces their schedule. (Venus Williams has won seven majors…and spent 19 weeks at No.1….Caroline Wozniacki won one major and spent 71 weeks at No. 1…. A knock on neither player; but two different approaches to scheduling.)

Mailbag: The Greatest Players to Never Reach the No. 1 Ranking

The best players to never reach No. 1, an NCAA tournament for tennis, an argument against The Big Three references and much more.

www.si.com

______________________________________

Interesting points to consider about the #1 ranking, too, for those who consider it the second most important resume stat after Majors.

 

[tented]

Djokovic becomes sole owner of the weeks at #1 record as of today, and Medvedev becomes the first #2 not named Federer, Nadal, Djokovic or Murray since 2005.

Rafa is still No. 2, according to the ATP.

 

[tennisville]

Rafa is still No. 2, according to the ATP.

Medvedev actually will be no 2 on March 15th regardless of what happens this week

 

[Fiero425]

Medvedev actually will be no 2 on March 15th regardless of what happens this week

It was the same invevitability of Nole overtaking Fed's 310 weeks at #1 so the record was prematurely posted! It didn't matter! If anything, most Fed fans should be embarrassed him having a bye in a tourney after a year sitting on his arse and still in the top 10! Sounds so strange coming out of me! He was the definitive GOAT after just 8 years of Sampras' retirement, but it's hard to ignore he's been b!tched slapped again and again by Nadovic in the most important of matches over the years! How people keep giving him cover for his age when he had multiple match points against Djokovic on Wimbledon grass in 2019 I'll never understand! WTF? It's gonna get uglier before it gets better; sorta like Biden over Trump! There will be a huge segment of the tennis intelligentsia who'll try all kinds of maneuvers to keep that status of "GOAT" even as his records are oblitorated in less time by years!

 

[tennisville]

Wertheim had some interesting letters and comments to that effect in this week's Mailbag. General conversation about best players never to reach #1 (ATP and WTA.) He said this, though I will post the whole link:

....perhaps the greatest men's singles player to never (officially) reach No. 1: Guillermo Vilas. On the women's singles side, surely Hana Mandlikova must be considered one of the greatest to not reach No. 1. And while we're at it, let's raise a glass to those who end up on these lists. They had amazing careers and should be remembered for more than just these unfortunate stats.
—Chris

• Great post. These aforementioned players had tremendous careers, you are right. And the achievement of the No. 1 ranking can be a combination of luck and circumstance—points fall off, a player gets injured, a player reduces their schedule. (Venus Williams has won seven majors…and spent 19 weeks at No.1….Caroline Wozniacki won one major and spent 71 weeks at No. 1…. A knock on neither player; but two different approaches to scheduling.)

Mailbag: The Greatest Players to Never Reach the No. 1 Ranking

The best players to never reach No. 1, an NCAA tournament for tennis, an argument against The Big Three references and much more.

www.si.com

______________________________________

Interesting points to consider about the #1 ranking, too, for those who consider it the second most important resume stat after Majors.

Vilas is an interesting story really, so what happened was the ATP ranking was not calculated weekly and they would release it infrequently, some time over a lot of weeks. There was a period in between where he actually was the no 1 player in the world but the rankings were not calculated. That period was for 45 days which was unusually long even then. By the time they were calculated, he had lost it which is a bit sad. Here is a Link, there was even a Netflix documentary on this

I wish the ATP retroactively give the ranking to him, they do have a precedent where they retroactively awarded match wins for Laver Cup despite it clearly being an exhibition event (Link). Being no 1 is an amazing thing and it should not be taken away from Vilas because of lack of computer power back in the days

 

[Fiero425]

Vilas is an interesting story really, so what happened was the ATP ranking was not calculated weekly and they would release it infrequently, some time over a lot of weeks. There was a period in between where he actually was the no 1 player in the world but the rankings were not calculated. That period was for 45 days which was unusually long even then. By the time they were calculated, he had lost it which is a bit sad. Here is a Link, there was even a Netflix documentary on this

I wish the ATP retroactively give the ranking to him, they do have a precedent where they retroactively awarded match wins for Laver Cup despite it clearly being an exhibition event (Link). Being no 1 is an amazing thing and it should not be taken away from Vilas because of lack of computer power back in the days

Sometmes I think The GP execs. undermined Vilas on purpose due to him playing the "B Circuit" clay events we used to watch on Monday nights on PBS! It was like he was avoiding Borg, Connors, and the rest playing final after final against weaker competition like a Brian Gottfried! Borg did own the guy where Vilas took his lone FO when Borg decided not to play due to defending his Wimbledon crown in '77 coincidently defeating Brian G. in the final!

Update: I seem to remember they retroactively awarded a couple weeks of being #1 to Evonne Goolagong due to an error I can't recall!

 

[Jelenafan]

Vilas won the French Open and the US Open in 1977 AND made it to the Australian Open finals on grass. IF anyone should have the exception made to retroactively give him weeks at #1 it would be Guillermo Vilas.

The argument that this would open up countless ranking revisions is lame, it smacks of administrative pettiness.

 

[tennisville]

Sometmes I think The GP execs. undermined Vilas on purpose due to him playing the "B Circuit" clay events we used to watch on Monday nights on PBS! It was like he was avoiding Borg, Connors, and the rest playing final after final against weaker competition like a Brian Gottfried! Borg did own the guy where Vilas took his lone FO when Borg decided not to play due to defending his Wimbledon crown in '77 coincidently defeating Brian G. in the final!

Update: I seem to remember they retroactively awarded a couple weeks of being #1 to Evonne Goolagong due to an error I can't recall!

I mean those events were really important for Vilas right, they were in his home country and continent allowing him to not travel much and still do well. That was the rules of the sport and he just used them

He did win big titles, I mean he never was as good as Borg on clay but who really was in that era. Borg was an absolute legend. He was best of the rest and capitalized when Borg did not play it. I am sure he would have skipped it for other reasons as he was an expert in winning Roland Garros and Wimbledon back to back

And yes Goolagong got 2 extra weeks at no1 by the WTA which was the kickstarter for the study to give Vilas no 1

 

[tennisville]

Vilas won the French Open and the US Open in 1977 AND made it to the Australian Open finals on grass. IF anyone should have the exception made to retroactively give him weeks at #1 it would be Guillermo Vilas.

The argument that this would open up countless ranking revisions is lame, it smacks of administrative pettiness.

Its really them trying to justify their laziness. We all know that this was a part of the era and move on. But not giving someone who actually reached no 1 their due credit is really not in good sport

 

[Ricardo]

It was the same invevitability of Nole overtaking Fed's 310 weeks at #1 so the record was prematurely posted! It didn't matter! If anything, most Fed fans should be embarrassed him having a bye in a tourney after a year sitting on his arse and still in the top 10! Sounds so strange coming out of me! He was the definitive GOAT after just 8 years of Sampras' retirement, but it's hard to ignore he's been b!tched slapped again and again by Nadovic in the most important of matches over the years! How people keep giving him cover for his age when he had multiple match points against Djokovic on Wimbledon grass in 2019 I'll never understand! WTF? It's gonna get uglier before it gets better; sorta like Biden over Trump! There will be a huge segment of the tennis intelligentsia who'll try all kinds of maneuvers to keep that status of "GOAT" even as his records are oblitorated in less time by years!

Clear indication of a trash personality when you find the need to insult a player who was formerly your idol, and he has done nothing wrong....no wonder I bitch slap you for fun, you are that despicable

 

[the AntiPusher]

Will Rafa have to run the table by winning Madrid and Roma (Rome)..to take over the number ranking before RG?

 

[Moxie]

Here is a screen shot of the live rankings today. I can see that Nadal definitely will go into RG as #3. My question is only a curiosity, but if you look at Novak, he is -500 points, which I know is 1/2 of his points for last year's Rome, under the new system. But look at Rafa, who is -910 points this week. Is that for last year's French Open? Can anyone explain this to me?

 

[AnonymousFan]

Here is a screen shot of the live rankings today. I can see that Nadal definitely will go into RG as #3. My question is only a curiosity, but if you look at Novak, he is -500 points, which I know is 1/2 of his points for last year's Rome, under the new system. But look at Rafa, who is -910 points this week. Is that for last year's French Open? Can anyone explain this to me?

View attachment 4664

They gave Novak the 50% but Started Nadal from 0 “Best Of”, oof. Difference between Round 16 Rome points and Championship is 910

 

[Moxie]

They gave Novak the 50% but Started Nadal from 0 “Best Of”, oof. Difference between Round 16 Rome points and Championship is 910

I appreciate that, but could you translate it into English that my pea brain can understand?

 

[AnonymousFan]

I appreciate that, but could you translate it into English that my pea brain can understand?

Djokovic ranking points before 2021 Rome: 11463. The site awarded him 500 live ranking points from his 2020 Rome win, so his live ranking is 10963 and +/- is -500.
Nadal ranking points before 2021 Rome: 9630. The site didn't add 500 live ranking points for his 2019 Rome win, so he started this tournament at 8630. They list him as having 8720 live ranking points (8630 + 90 3R points) even though he hasn't beaten Sinner (yet). His max points for winning this tournament is listed as 9630 (8720 + 910). Messy site LOL

tl;dr the -910 is for this tournament since they didn't give him anything for his 2019 win. Nadal will be back to 9630 (8720+910) if he wins this tournament.