The Rankings Thread (ATP)

herios

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New career high Feb. 20:

10. David Goffin 26y
24. Pablo Carreno-Busta 25y
25. Albert Ramos-Vinolas 29y
27. Gilles Miller 33y
33. Misha Zverev 29y
53. Nikoloz Basilashvili 24y
68. Pierre Hugues Herbert 25y
90. Frances Tiafoe 19y
 

El Dude

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Goffin finally makes the top 10.

I wonder, herios, who has made your new career high lists over the last few months, or year, the most often. I could go back and check, I suppose, but I bet Pablo Carreno Busta is up there.
 

Moxie

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Goffin becomes the first Belgian man to reach the top 10. (Of course, Belgium had 2 women at #1.) Nice progress by Tiafoe. Now here's a question: I noticed that Gulbis is down to #166...any idea what goes on with him?
 

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Goffin becomes the first Belgian man to reach the top 10. (Of course, Belgium had 2 women at #1.) Nice progress by Tiafoe. Now here's a question: I noticed that Gulbis is down to #166...any idea what goes on with him?

He was first out due to a minor injury, and a piece on tennis.com had that the took the time to change a few things on his game. Then I believe he had another injury, and now I believe his on his way back. I saw his name on a few challengers and qualifiers lately. I would expect that he will soon string some results and jump back to the #50 region. Honestly, I like his approach and I would like to see him much much further up.
 
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herios

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El Dude said:
Goffin finally makes the top 10.

I wonder, herios, who has made your new career high lists over the last few months, or year, the most often. I could go back and check, I suppose, but I bet Pablo Carreno Busta is up there.

PC Busta started to be featured in May 2016 ( I looked up data staring only in 2016), and since made the list 11 times.
Next week he will make it again, as he surely moves up some more.
 

El Dude

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Jo-Willie is back in the top ten, he'll be at #7 tomorrow. What a great year he's having so far - two titles. Kind of surprising, maybe a slight renaissance?
 

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El Dude said:
Jo-Willie is back in the top ten, he'll be at #7 tomorrow. What a great year he's having so far - two titles. Kind of surprising, maybe a slight renaissance?

All the more reason to look back and wonder what could have been! Why is it these guys are having such late surges in success like no other period I can remember? Cilic came out of nowhere to win a USO, Wawrinka who's been owned by the "Big 4" throughout takes 3 hard fought majors going through the best of them, and the father of them all, with a little help from his friends, Roger took his 18th major overcoming Nadal in 5 sets; actually down a break! You just didn't see a lot of this; Sampras taking '02 USO was really just a continuation of his greatness even though he had gone 2 years without winning "ANYTHING!"

I'm going a little far afield trying to elevate Tsonga into that crowd, but it's been impressive for him to win these last 2 tourneys after being obscure for the most part! He's only been in 1 major final and won a couple Masters so I'm not going to give him much of a chance winning his home major, but you never know what might happen at this Wimbledon; Roger, Tsonga, and others with a real chance! I doubt Murray will defend! He's given me NO REASON to believe he can do that which is why he can't be elevated too far even with all his accomplishments; 3 majors, Masters wins, 2 OG, & DC! It's gonna be tough trying to defend 2 more majors with a lot of points! :angel: :dodgy: :rolleyes:
 

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El Dude said:
Jo-Willie is back in the top ten, he'll be at #7 tomorrow. What a great year he's having so far - two titles. Kind of surprising, maybe a slight renaissance?

Seems that like Roger, he recognized he needed to improve his backhand. Haven't watched any of Tsonga's matches for ages but he mentioned in recent interviews he's been working a lot on his backhand.
 

El Dude

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Fiero425 said:
passionate Fiero rant

Fiero, I hear you in that I too have been frustrated in that the last player to come up that looked like he might challenge the Big Four was Juan Martin del Potro, and his career has been a mess. Of course Stan threw a monkey in the works with his late blooming, but I think that is cause for celebration. Actually, Stan might have ushered in a new era - or at least be the best representation of it (We can also look to David Ferrer as another player who peaked in his late 20s to early 30s, even if David is now clearly in decline at age 34-35).

There is a sense that we're in uncharted waters. We don't know how long the Big Four (+Stan) will hang on to their elite form, and we don't know when -- or which among -- the younger generation will rise to supplant them. It does seem clear that the baton is being passed over the Kei-Milos-Grigor group, although even that is somewhat questionable in that Grigor has surged of late and looks to be having a latish (age 25-26) breakthrough.

It also looks like typical decline phase is changing from the historically typical late 20s to early 30s, and being pushed back a few years to more the early-to-mid-30s. I don't know if I'd be this drastic, but it almost seems like "35 is the new 30." Maybe more likely it is 33 is the new 30. Similar, it could be the beginning of peaking is also being pushed back a bit, but maybe not as much. By age 20-21, great players have all been historically in their prime. We haven't seen a truly great player since Novak, so we don't know if this is changing, but it does seem likely it will be pushed back a year or two. Zverev bears watching, in this regard.
 

El Dude

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To revisit this idea of player's maintaining a high level later into their 30s, the cut-off would really have to be AFTER Roger's generation. Consider that most of his best peers all declined in the usual age range, some even a bit young. Here are the best players of Roger's generation (born 1979-83), with the year-end age in which they were still either top 10, or won a big tournament (Slam, WTF, Masters):

Federer: 2002-17+ (age 21-36+)
Safin: 2000-05 (age 20-25)
Ferrero: 2001-03 (age 21-23)
Hewitt: 2000-05 (age 19-24)
Davydenko: 2005-09 (age 24-28)
Roddick: 2002-10 (age 20-28)
Nalbandian: 2003-08 (age 21-26)
Coria: 2003-05 (age 21-23)
Ferrer: 2007-15 (age 25-33)

As you can see, of the nine best players of Roger's generation, he's the only one still at or near prime form, and only he and Ferrer (2 of 9, or 22%) maintained a prime form into their 30s. Now a few others of his generation maintained a prime-ish form into their 30s--namely Feliciano Lopez and Ivo Karlovic--but those are lesser players.

Now if we look at the next generation, born 1984-88, we have a different picture.

Nadal: 2005-17+ (age 19-31+)
Djokovic: 2007-17+ (age 20-30+)
Murray: 2008-17+ (age 21-30+)
Wawrinka: 2013-17? (age 28-32?)
Tsonga: 2008-17? (age 23-32?)
Berdych: 2005-16+ (age 20-31+)
Cilic: 2014-16+ (age 26-28+)
del Potro: 2008-13+ (age 20-25+)
Soderling:2009-11 (age 25-27)

(It is interesting to note that both generations have nine players that I would consider 1st or 2nd tier players, or elite or near elite; in the younger generation, the next best group include players like Gasquet, Monfils, Isner, Almagro, Simon, etc, and in the older generation the next group includes Robredo, Gonzalez, Verdasco, Blake, Youzhny, Lopez, etc - all of whom are pretty much the definition of 3rd tier, to varying degrees).

So in the younger generation, we have six players - at least - who seem to be maintaining prime, or near-prime form into their 30s. Now maybe this is helped by a weaker younger generation - I think it is. But I'm not sure to such an extent that these guys wouldn't still be in the top 10, which is the easiest of the criteria for prime that I set forth for this post.

The older generation also has some older starts to the prime years - with Tsonga, Soderling, Cilic, and Wawrinka all beginning their prime years in the year they turned 23 or older. In the older generation, you had half that - Ferrer and Davydenko.

These are pretty small samples to make definitive statements, but I do think they at least give us a sense of an aging trends. What they do tell us is that more elite players are entering AND exiting their primes later, but what they do not tell us is whether truly great players are peaking later. Again, we're probably going to have to wait until "Generation Zverev" comes more fully of age.
 

GameSetAndMath

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El Dude said:
I wonder, herios, who has made your new career high lists over the last few months, or year, the most often. I could go back and check, I suppose, but I bet Pablo Carreno Busta is up there.

This could be a stat without much relevance. If a player makes a major breakthrough he will be there in the new career high only once or just a few times. On the other hand, if a player marginally keeps improving, then he would be on the list too many times.
 

El Dude

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Well, the relevance is that he's been consistently, if marginally, improving.
 

isabelle

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Tsonga is N°7 after his Marseille's title
 

herios

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New career highs Feb. 27, 2017:

18. Jack Sock 24y
23. Pablo Carreno-Busta 25y
24. Albert Ramos-Vinolas 29y
30. Misha Zverev 29y
43. Daniel Evans 26y
44. Diego Schwartzman 24y
57. Daniil Medvedev 21y
74. Thiago Monteiro 22y
89. Frances Tiafoe 19
91. Jared Donaldson 20y
100. Nicolas Kicker 24y

New entry in the top 100, the Argentine Kicker.
 

herios

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New career highs Feb. 27, 2017:

18. Jack Sock 24y
23. Pablo Carreno-Busta 25y
24. Albert Ramos-Vinolas 29y
30. Misha Zverev 29y
43. Daniel Evans 26y
44. Diego Schwartzman 24y
57. Daniil Medvedev 21y
74. Thiago Monteiro 22y
89. Frances Tiafoe 19
91. Jared Donaldson 20y
100. Nicolas Kicker 24y (ARG) - a new member of the top 100
 
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El Dude

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Sock seems to be taking that extra step forward, into the top 20. He's one of two players, along with Tsonga, with two titles so far this year.
 

Fiero425

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El Dude said:
Sock seems to be taking that extra step forward, into the top 20. He's one of two players, along with Tsonga, with two titles so far this year.

I'm more hopeful w/ Thiem even w/ his extreme stroke production! The upcoming clay season will tell all! :angel: :dodgy:

- - http://fiero4251.blogspot.com/2016/08/fan-page-novak-nole-djokovic.html - -
 

herios

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Fiero425 said:
El Dude said:
Sock seems to be taking that extra step forward, into the top 20. He's one of two players, along with Tsonga, with two titles so far this year.

I'm more hopeful w/ Thiem even w/ his extreme stroke production! The upcoming clay season will tell all! :angel: :dodgy:

- - http://fiero4251.blogspot.com/2016/08/fan-page-novak-nole-djokovic.html - -

Thiem is very good on clay, and far more accomplished than Sock. But he also is pedestrian on HC.
 

britbox

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Feb 27 Rankings

1 (1) Andy Murray(Britain) 11540
2 (2) Novak Djokovic(Serbia) 9735
3 (3) Stan Wawrinka(Switzerland) 5195
4 (4) Milos Raonic(Canada) 5080
5 (5) Kei Nishikori(Japan) 4730
6 (6) Rafa Nadal(Spain) 4115
7 (11) Jo-Wilfried Tsonga(France) 3480
8 (7) Marin Cilic(Croatia) 3410
9 (8) Dominic Thiem(Austria) 3375
10 (9) Roger Federer(Switzerland) 3260
11 (10) David Goffin(Belgium) 3245
12 (12) Gael Monfils(France) 3190
13 (13) Grigor Dimitrov(Bulgaria) 2925
14 (14) Tomas Berdych(Czech Republic) 2790
15 (17) Lucas Pouille(France) 2261
16 (15) Roberto Bautista(Spain) 2190
17 (16) Nick Kyrgios(Australia) 2075
18 (21) Jack Sock(U.S.) 2060
19 (19) Richard Gasquet(France) 1920
20 (18) Alexander Zverev(Germany) 1895
21 (20) Ivo Karlovic(Croatia) 1875
22 (22) John Isner(U.S.) 1760
23 (24) Pablo Carreno(Spain) 1645
24 (25) Albert Ramos(Spain) 1535
25 (23) Gilles Simon(France) 1495
26 (26) Steve Johnson(U.S.) 1370
27 (27) Gilles Muller(Luxembourg) 1370
28 (29) David Ferrer(Spain) 1265
29 (32) Philipp Kohlschreiber(Germany) 1225
30 (33) Mischa Zverev(Germany) 1216
31 (28) Feliciano Lopez(Spain) 1170
32 (42) Juan Martin Del Potro(Argentina) 1110
33 (30) Pablo Cuevas(Uruguay) 1085
34 (36) Viktor Troicki(Serbia) 1075
35 (37) Fernando Verdasco(Spain) 1070
36 (38) Marcel Granollers(Spain) 1068
37 (39) Joao Sousa(Portugal) 1055
38 (40) Paolo Lorenzi(Italy) 1052
39 (41) Benoit Paire(France) 1040
40 (35) Sam Querrey(U.S.) 1000
41 (31) Bernard Tomic(Australia) 985
42 (45) Fabio Fognini(Italy) 980
43 (44) Daniel Evans(Britain) 971
44 (51) Diego Schwartzman(Argentina) 935
45 (49) Kyle Edmund(Britain) 933
46 (43) Ryan Harrison(U.S.) 931
47 (46) Florian Mayer(Germany) 913
48 (57) Steve Darcis(Belgium) 899
49 (34) Marcos Baghdatis(Cyprus) 895
50 (48) Karen Khachanov(Russia) 895
51 (47) Malek Jaziri(Tunisia) 883
52 (54) Nicolas Mahut(France) 870
53 (53) Nikoloz Basilashvili(Georgia) 868
54 (52) Federico Delbonis(Argentina) 860
55 (55) Jiri Vesely(Czech Republic) 848
56 (56) Nicolas Almagro(Spain) 845
57 (64) Daniil Medvedev(Russia) 797
58 (61) Andrey Kuznetsov(Russia) 790
59 (62) Jan-Lennard Struff(Germany) 786
60 (50) Alexandr Dolgopolov(Ukraine) 785
61 (63) Lu Yen-Hsun(Taiwan) 783
62 (65) Martin Klizan(Slovakia) 775
63 (69) Donald Young(U.S.) 771
64 (59) Borna Coric(Croatia) 770
65 (60) Adrian Mannarino(France) 766
66 (58) Robin Haase(Netherlands) 763
67 (66) Carlos Berlocq(Argentina) 746
68 (70) Denis Istomin(Uzbekistan) 723
69 (76) Thomaz Bellucci(Brazil) 721
70 (71) Juan Monaco(Argentina) 720
71 (73) Horacio Zeballos(Argentina) 714
72 (68) Pierre-Hugues Herbert(France) 713
73 (72) Andreas Seppi(Italy) 700
74 (85) Thiago Monteiro(Brazil) 690
75 (74) Dudi Sela(Israel) 686
76 (75) Kevin Anderson(South Africa) 680
77 (79) Damir Dzumhur(Bosnia and Herzegovina) 674
78 (77) Jeremy Chardy(France) 670
79 (67) Jordan Thompson(Australia) 669
80 (80) Stephane Robert(France) 660
81 (84) Dustin Brown(Germany) 651
82 (82) Facundo Bagnis(Argentina) 633
83 (87) Mikhail Youzhny(Russia) 631
84 (88) Rogerio Dutra Silva(Brazil) 628
85 (89) Radu Albot(Moldova) 623
86 (91) Yoshihito Nishioka(Japan) 621
87 (78) Mikhail Kukushkin(Kazakhstan) 618
88 (94) Victor Estrella(Dominican Republic) 614
89 (90) Frances Tiafoe(U.S.) 614
90 (83) Chung Hyeon(South Korea) 614
91 (100) Jared Donaldson(U.S.) 608
92 (92) Renzo Olivo(Argentina) 605
93 (81) Adam Pavlasek(Czech Republic) 604
94 (95) Konstantin Kravchuk(Russia) 604
95 (96) Janko Tipsarevic(Serbia) 603
96 (98) Radek Stepanek(Czech Republic) 595
97 (99) Guillermo Garcia-Lopez(Spain) 595
98 (86) Gastao Elias(Portugal) 584
99 (101) Paul-Henri Mathieu(France) 578
100 (123) Nicolas Kicker(Argentina) 574
 

britbox

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New career highs Feb. 27, 2017:

18. Jack Sock 24y
23. Pablo Carreno-Busta 25y
24. Albert Ramos-Vinolas 29y
30. Misha Zverev 29y
43. Daniel Evans 26y
44. Diego Schwartzman 24y
57. Daniil Medvedev 21y
74. Thiago Monteiro 22y
89. Frances Tiafoe 19
91. Jared Donaldson 20y
100. Nicolas Kicker 24y (ARG) - a new member of the top 100

Nice to see Mischa Zverev in the Top 30 after all his injury issues over the last few years.