The perfect player

[Moxie]

Nadal's injuries hampering his career is frankly a load of bs. He's won 18 slams too many for a lot of people with those supposedly terribly bad knees that HAVE NEVER HAD ANY SURGERY. Tsonga, by comparison, has had absolutely tons of knee surgeries and is as slow as a snail now and only AP thinks he's still a good player because he once was but he's not anymore for a long time. And the reason is: tons of surgeries and I'm citing that as a true example of injuries hampering someone's career unlike the silliness claimed by Nadal fans.

Nadal is still moving great and is still very fast. What does that tell you? It tells me personally that all the over talked crap about his injuries is just bs. They haven't affected him that much at all. Because he lacks the shot making skills of other top players, he has no choice but to adopt this go for broke reckless defending but this same physical speed and agility is what won him what it did and without playing this way he wouldn't have won anywhere near as much.

Of course things hurt more when you lose a set but there's also adrenaline pushing you through the pain barrier so you could say the polar opposite too. Federer has NEVER EVER left the court before his opponent served for the match or sat there changing bandages on his shoes before the opponent serves for the match. Wonder why that is? Because he's not a prick, that's why. Roger had also had a known injury reported before the final of the AO 2017 and had groin issues all tournament so this is completely different than a phantom mystery ailment that just appeared like a puff of smoke at the end of the match before the opponent served for it or when losing. One is sporting and has won many awards for sportsmanship as a result and the other isn't and hasn't. It's as simple as that.

The notion that Nadal's injuries haven't hampered his career is frankly outrageous. I'm surprised even you can be that blinkered. How many months has he lost and how many Majors has he had to skip due to injury? I could add them up for you, but we both know, more or less. Even your compatriot Darth is always wishing for players to keep Nadal on court, just to wear out his dodgy knees. Nadal has always been fast, but he's definitely not as fast as he was. I don't think any reasonable tennis observer wouldn't say that he's lost a step, and doesn't track everything down the way he used to. I don't think reasonable people would deny Rafa's chronic tendinitis of the knees. Reasonable people would also tell you that making a comparison between Nadal and Tsonga is a bit of a joke.

The other joke is the bolded above. That Rafa lacks shot-making skills. Now you're just embarrassing yourself.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

The notion that Nadal's injuries haven't hampered his career is frankly outrageous. I'm surprised even you can be that blinkered. How many months has he lost and how many Majors has he had to skip due to injury? I could add them up for you, but we both know, more or less. Even your compatriot Darth is always wishing for players to keep Nadal on court, just to wear out his dodgy knees. Nadal has always been fast, but he's definitely not as fast as he was. I don't think any reasonable tennis observer wouldn't say that he's lost a step, and doesn't track everything down the way he used to. I don't think reasonable people would deny Rafa's chronic tendinitis of the knees. Reasonable people would also tell you that making a comparison between Nadal and Tsonga is a bit of a joke.

The other joke is the bolded above. That Rafa lacks shot-making skills. Now you're just embarrassing yourself.

Compatriot? You meant "fellow Feddie". How come you make such a mistake when you scored 98% in GRE verbal.

 

[Moxie]

Compatriot? You meant "fellow Feddie". How come you make such a mistake when you scored 98% in GRE verbal.

How is "compatriot" not a synonym for "fellow?"

 

[GameSetAndMath]

How is "compatriot" not a synonym for "fellow?"

Compatriot means "fellow citizen". I don't think Front and DF are from the same country.

 

[Moxie]

Compatriot means "fellow citizen". I don't think Front and DF are from the same country.

You use "fellow" in your above. Never mind. Also means "partner in crime" in colloquial parlance. Cohort. Compadre. I think the meaning is clear.

 

[Ricardo]

I already answered this above, but here's a link about it:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/t...ms-after-Boris-Beckers-coaching-comments.html

In the post above I said that Novak had been fined twice since, but that is incorrect. He was fined in 2011 (at AO) and 2013 for on-court coaching violations, both at Slams, and before Becker joined his team. The confusion came from this article, where the wording as to timing is more ambiguous:

https://www.foxsports.com/tennis/story/did-boris-becker-reveal-that-novak-djokovic-cheated-062815

Who asked for your answer? Nobody, so would you mind step aside and let bs back up his statement, woman? MR Becker I check in the link, did not say that. Now I am asking bs to show us, at least some credibility please?

 

[brokenshoelace]

The next coming of Christ btw quickly went down 3-1 in the 5th after the MTO. Amazing stuff this next coming of Christ.

And what happened after that?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Nadal's injuries hampering his career is frankly a load of bs. He's won 18 slams too many for a lot of people with those supposedly terribly bad knees that HAVE NEVER HAD ANY SURGERY.

OK, just to be clear, Nadal injured his back early in the second set of a major final against a guy he had never lost a set to. Nadal has also missed Wimbledon in 2009 when he was the defending champion. He had reached the final 3 times in a row before that year, and reached it twice in a row right after. So it happened in the middle of 5 consecutive finals. An injury ruled him out of the 2016 FO after winning his first couple of matches. He missed 6 straight months in 2012 and only came back after the 2013 AO. An injury forced him to miss the 2014 US Open. That's just off the top of my head and that's not even counting his long 2016 injury, every year end injury he's had, tendinitis striking him in 2009 and really derailing his season, etc...

So I have to ask, what the fuck are you talking about? Just because he's been able to bounce back doesn't actually mean the injuries haven't hampered his career. Like no seriously, how can you honestly say that and believe it? I know the level of discourse has sucked over here for a while but this is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy to stupid at this point. Like, it's legitimately headache inducing.

Tsonga, by comparison, has had absolutely tons of knee surgeries and is as slow as a snail now and only AP thinks he's still a good player because he once was but he's not anymore for a long time. And the reason is: tons of surgeries and I'm citing that as a true example of injuries hampering someone's career unlike the silliness claimed by Nadal fans.

So unless you have surgery injuries can't hamper your career...even if you miss 6 straight months. Is stupidity the flavor of the month here or what? Also, I like how your comparison is Tsonga, a guy who's not good enough to lace Nadal's boots. Has it occurred to you that Nadal kept winning after his injuries, unlike Tsonga, because...he's much better?

Why don't you compare him to Federer or Djokovic? You know, his actual rivals. How many slams were they forced to miss until very recently?

Nadal is still moving great and is still very fast. What does that tell you? It tells me personally that all the over talked crap about his injuries is just bs.

Newsflash, injuries DO NOT have to have a lingering effect to hamper your career. Even if you come back better than ever, by sheer virtue of being forced to take time off and missing majors, it's hampering your career. The fact that I have to explain this to you is truly mind boggling. Also Nadal's movement hasn't been the same since 2009 and that's a fact. It's still elite, but he doesn't move as quickly. He compensate in other ways because he's really fucking good, but that's a different issue.

They haven't affected him that much at all. Because he lacks the shot making skills of other top players, he has no choice but to adopt this go for broke reckless defending but this same physical speed and agility is what won him what it did and without playing this way he wouldn't have won anywhere near as much.

OK, here is where I do that monthly thing where I put you on the spot and call you out on your bullshit. So tonight's exercise is the following:

- Name me every forehand on tour that's better than Nadal's.

- Name me every backhand on tour that's better than Nadal's.

So yeah, what is this about Nadal not having the shot making of other top players?

 

[Front242]

And what happened after that?

He broke back and won? I'll respond to your other lengthy post when I find the time

 

[Moxie]

I can understand @Ricardo's cluelessness because he's a genuine idiot, but guys like @Front242 and @GameSetAndMath white knighting this issue while completely ignoring facts baffle me.

Again, where has this Nadal being coached thing come from? Because of some random incident in 2010? And I like the constant namedropping of Toni, when last I checked he stopped coaching him.

So yeah I don't expect Front to answer my question since he literally remembers events that never happened (Nadal medical timeouts vs Petzschner and Federer) and GSM disappears whenever called out on his flawed reasoning. But I'm just curious.

I know this conversation is happening across at least 3 threads now, but, in fairness, I did remember something about the Petzschner match, and looked it up:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2010/jun/26/rafael-nadal-wimbledon-andy-bull

Nadal took two MTO's: one elbow, one knee. Petzschner complained about the timing, and about Toni "coaching." Surely this must be the Rosetta Stone of most of Front's complaints. So, Petzschner was a journeyman playing out of his head to get up on Nadal. Maybe he lost because he got his momentum stopped, or maybe he would have lost anyway. Who knows? Rosol beat Nadal at Wimbledon, and that still stands as the only thing on his resume. What is not reported is when the MTOs came, and which came first. Obviously, Nadal had been suffering with knee issues for some time. I post this in fairness to Front. But also to say that he can't take this anomalous example into infinity. Players have crabby, difficult matches. They can behave poorly in extremis. We have perfect examples of that from both Roger and Novak. What we don't have, from any of the 3, is a lot of that on any regular basis. So, at a certain point, one has to stop stringing out a couple of examples into a lifetime of horrible behavior. Especially if one is going to defend the likes of Nick Kyrgios when he's being a complete tool.

 

[brokenshoelace]

He broke back and won? I'll respond to your other lengthy post when I find the time

Ahhhh yes, and breaking back and winning just happens randomly...playing out of his mind had nothing to do with it. In fact, you were just having an argument recently with AP that Nadal didn't choke (which I agree with) but Roger played fantastic, which I also agree with.

 

[Front242]

Ahhhh yes, and breaking back and winning just happens randomly...playing out of his mind had nothing to do with it. In fact, you were just having an argument recently with AP that Nadal didn't choke (which I agree with) but Roger played fantastic, which I also agree with.

It's only random to Nadal fans as you're all disappointed he didn't fold like a cheap tent like he has in the past way too may times. Fact is, he has more than enough game as anyone knows to beat Nadal so it shouldn't be that much of a surprise nor should it have even been 5 sets.

 

[brokenshoelace]

It's only random to Nadal fans as you're all disappointed he didn't fold like a cheap tent like he has in the past way too may times. Fact is, he has more than enough game as anyone knows to beat Nadal so it shouldn't be that much of a surprise nor should it have even been 5 sets.

You're REAAAAAAAAAAAALLY dancing around this. Fact is, at the end of a major in which he had already played 2 five setters, coming off a six months layoff, a 36 year old Federer looked fresh as a daisy in his 3rd five setter against one of the fittest guys on tour, and played some phenomenal tennis in the final set to win.

These are facts, right?

 

[Front242]

You're REAAAAAAAAAAAALLY dancing around this. Fact is, at the end of a major in which he had already played 2 five setters, coming off a six months layoff, a 36 year old Federer looked fresh as a daisy in his 3rd five setter against one of the fittest guys on tour, and played some phenomenal tennis in the final set to win.

These are facts, right?

He was sweating like Bill Cosby in the kindergarten but physically seemed ok but you're making too much out of the 5 setters as I already said cos they were not long matches at all. No reason to be tired.

 

[brokenshoelace]

He was sweating like Bill Cosby in the kindergarten but physically seemed ok but you're making too much out of the 5 setters as I already said cos they were not long matches at all. No reason to be tired.

He was 36. That's enough reason to be tired. At 38 now, he's still going through marathons without breaking a sweat.

 

[brokenshoelace]

By the way, I am still waiting for people to inform me when has Toni's "illegal coaching" happened. How often? Which majors? When was the last time Nadal was accused of that?

I'm equally still waiting for Front to list me the players have better forehands and backhands than Nadal.

 

[DarthFed]

I know this conversation is happening across at least 3 threads now, but, in fairness, I did remember something about the Petzschner match, and looked it up:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2010/jun/26/rafael-nadal-wimbledon-andy-bull

Nadal took two MTO's: one elbow, one knee. Petzschner complained about the timing, and about Toni "coaching." Surely this must be the Rosetta Stone of most of Front's complaints. So, Petzschner was a journeyman playing out of his head to get up on Nadal. Maybe he lost because he got his momentum stopped, or maybe he would have lost anyway. Who knows? Rosol beat Nadal at Wimbledon, and that still stands as the only thing on his resume. What is not reported is when the MTOs came, and which came first. Obviously, Nadal had been suffering with knee issues for some time. I post this in fairness to Front. But also to say that he can't take this anomalous example into infinity. Players have crabby, difficult matches. They can behave poorly in extremis. We have perfect examples of that from both Roger and Novak. What we don't have, from any of the 3, is a lot of that on any regular basis. So, at a certain point, one has to stop stringing out a couple of examples into a lifetime of horrible behavior. Especially if one is going to defend the likes of Nick Kyrgios when he's being a complete tool.

Nadal used to do the fake MTO's a lot. I will admit he's really toned that down but now limits it to random bathroom breaks and changing tape before Roger served for two different matches. Nadal knows this stuff has worked a lot vs Roger in the past which is why he still goes back to that well.

The 2010 fake MTO's were probably the most egregious, everyone knew what was going on there. Most likely he was coached to do it by Toni who did get busted for coaching that match.

 

[Front242]

He was 36. That's enough reason to be tired. At 38 now, he's still going through marathons without breaking a sweat.

Well you seem to think they all use PEDs so not sure what you're harping on about to be honest. He gets to the business end of a long match, bottles it and ruins his legacy and then loses to Rublev on one of his most successful courts and a fast surface. But yeah, good year for him. No slams..2 matches practice before the USO. Anything else to add that I may have missed?

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Well you seem to think they all use PEDs so not sure what you're harping on about to be honest. He gets to the business end of a long match, bottles it and ruins his legacy and then loses to Rublev on one of his most successful courts and a fast surface. But yeah, good year for him. No slams..2 matches practice before the USO.

Anything else to add that I may have missed?

How could you forget a 10th loss to Nadal in slams and a 10th loss to Djokovic in slams. :spank:

 

[Front242]

How could you forget a 10th loss to Nadal in slams and a 10th loss to Djokovic in slams. :spank:

Sure. Why not. At least it proves he's not the superman some here make him out to be at 38.