The perfect player

[Nadalfan2013]

How come we never talk about the Federer MTO after he lost the 4th set to Nadal at the AO 2017 F? Which, for the record, Pat Cash called gamesmanship.

No worries, Federer will lose the slam record to Nadal as a punishment...

 

[Moxie]

Where does Becker himself say that? Pls show. Djoker said something similar but he is the offender trying to be defensive, and we know how morally corrupted he is...oxygen egg, yeah right. Got Marko Djokovic into tournament he wasn’t qualified for and a qualified player lost his spot? Sure.

Even Murray doesn’t get coached during matches, and he is a whinge. Everyone does it? Fuck off you are a clown liar.

It is within the article that Broken posted that BB said it. It was a BBC radio interview, which I can't find. However, Djokovic was fined twice for coaching subsequent to the interview (2015,) because they were being watched. Also, to Broken's other question, i.e., when was the last time Nadal got called for coaching...as far as being fined, the answer is 2010. So there is something to be said for his point that folks make endless remarks about Nadal, yet ignore Djokovic. Certain tropes get ossified around here in the minds of certain anti-fans, and they become truisms never to be examined again. How do you know Murray wasn't getting coached? He did spend a lot of time communicating to his box. For sure Roger didn't get coached when he didn't have one, but the holier-than-thou notion of him as above the fray is a bit much. And maybe he's too arrogant for it. But, as I pointed out recently, if any player is untouchable by the ATP/ITF, it's Roger, so don't be so sure about what he does and doesn't do, just because he doesn't get called out on it.

 

[DarthFed]

How come we never talk about the Federer MTO after he lost the 4th set to Nadal at the AO 2017 F? Which, for the record, Pat Cash called gamesmanship.

Actually it was brought up by you and others multiple times. I loved that Fed did it as it was much deserved payback for Rafa's multiple fake injury timeouts/tape changes/bathroom breaks against him.

 

[DarthFed]

It is within the article that Broken posted that BB said it. It was a BBC radio interview, which I can't find. However, Djokovic was fined twice for coaching subsequent to the interview (2015,) because they were being watched. Also, to Broken's other question, i.e., when was the last time Nadal got called for coaching...as far as being fined, the answer is 2010. So there is something to be said for his point that folks make endless remarks about Nadal, yet ignore Djokovic. Certain tropes get ossified around here in the minds of certain anti-fans, and they become truisms never to be examined again. How do you know Murray wasn't getting coached? He did spend a lot of time communicating to his box. For sure Roger didn't get coached when he didn't have one, but the holier-than-thou notion of him as above the fray is a bit much. And maybe he's too arrogant for it. But, as I pointed out recently, if any player is untouchable by the ATP/ITF, it's Roger, so don't be so sure about what he does and doesn't do, just because he doesn't get called out on it.

Yeah I saw that laughable post about how only Roger would be able to get away with PED's. All the top 3 would clearly.

 

[Moxie]

Actually it was brought up by you and others multiple times. I loved that Fed did it as it was much deserved payback for Rafa's multiple fake injury timeouts/tape changes/bathroom breaks against him.

That's funny, because I don't even remember it. In any case, so convenient for you to call it "payback," as if that makes it excusable. The truth is, it's actually an example of Roger doing what you complain that Nadal has done. So they're both guilty. Don't dress it up with "payback," i.e., false justification. If it's egregious, then either it is, or it isn't.

 

[Moxie]

Yeah I saw that laughable post about how only Roger would be able to get away with PED's. All the top 3 would clearly.

Now they would. But not back when you're sure that Rafa started, i.e., end of 2004/beginning of 2005. You have said that. At that point in his career, Nadal would have not believed he had any sanction. At that point in his career, Nadal had both a) no reason to dope, and b) no reason to think he'd get away with it, if caught. Roger has been untouchable for most of 2 decades.

 

[DarthFed]

That's funny, because I don't even remember it. In any case, so convenient for you to call it "payback," as if that makes it excusable. The truth is, it's actually an example of Roger doing what you complain that Nadal has done. So they're both guilty. Don't dress it up with "payback," i.e., false justification. If it's egregious, then either it is, or it isn't.

Revenge for wrongdoing is always excusable in my book. Nadal did that shit to him MULTIPLE times. I applauded Roger giving some back.

Also of note, it didn't work for Fed. Nadal broke right away and was up 3-1 in the 5th. Nadal's fake timeouts have been much more successful (MC 2006, Hamburg 08, RG 11).

 

[DarthFed]

Now they would. But not back when you're sure that Rafa started, i.e., end of 2004/beginning of 2005. You have said that. At that point in his career, Nadal would have not believed he had any sanction. At that point in his career, Nadal had both a) no reason to dope, and b) no reason to think he'd get away with it, if caught. Roger has been untouchable for most of 2 decades.

Lol at no reason to dope . So a professional athlete has no reason to want to improve at an insane rate. No incentive...lets stop the conversation here.

 

[Moxie]

Lol at no reason to dope . So a professional athlete has no reason to want to improve at an insane rate. No incentive...lets stop the conversation here.

You keep saying that he had every reason to dope, but you ignore where he was in his career and what was happening with his transition. You use the generic notion that all players have a reason to dope, but ignore the specifics of Nadal's so many early successes, and the main notion why he, of anyone of the Big 3, had no reason to dope at 18. Of course you want to stop the conversation, because this is where you have no argument.

 

[Front242]

How come we never talk about the Federer MTO after he lost the 4th set to Nadal at the AO 2017 F? Which, for the record, Pat Cash called gamesmanship.

Did it ever dawn on you that he had a groin strain before the final and in the first week of the tournament? It obviously didn't to either you or Pat Cash, who incidentally has made plenty of idiotic comments post retirement. The guy hadn't played for over 6 months before Hopman Cup ffs. That was 100% legit. Of course someone who hadn't played in over 6 months was likely to have a few aches and pains.

https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/federer-hampered-by-groin-niggle/3136693/

There's just one link and it took me 1 second to find it. Don't be lazy.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Fuck off you are a clown liar.

Honestly this is quality stuff. Imagine a grown man having this level of emotional maturity.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Out of curiosity, what were they doing? Was it verbal? Hand signals? Both?

It was blatantly verbal (in Spanish, obviously).

 

[brokenshoelace]

Djokovic:


“We can’t pretend that’s not happening in tennis. Of course, there’s situations when it happens, and not just with the top players, with everybody. This is a very competitive sport. You’re alone on the court.

“Of course, there are certain rules. But there are also times when the team of the player communicates with the player when he gets to go and take the towel in the corner, which is closer to the box, or other ways. I think it’s all fine as long as it’s not regular.”

@Ricardo for your reading pleasure. You clueless moron.

 

[brokenshoelace]

It is within the article that Broken posted that BB said it. It was a BBC radio interview, which I can't find. However, Djokovic was fined twice for coaching subsequent to the interview (2015,) because they were being watched. Also, to Broken's other question, i.e., when was the last time Nadal got called for coaching...as far as being fined, the answer is 2010. So there is something to be said for his point that folks make endless remarks about Nadal, yet ignore Djokovic. Certain tropes get ossified around here in the minds of certain anti-fans, and they become truisms never to be examined again. How do you know Murray wasn't getting coached? He did spend a lot of time communicating to his box. For sure Roger didn't get coached when he didn't have one, but the holier-than-thou notion of him as above the fray is a bit much. And maybe he's too arrogant for it. But, as I pointed out recently, if any player is untouchable by the ATP/ITF, it's Roger, so don't be so sure about what he does and doesn't do, just because he doesn't get called out on it.

I can understand @Ricardo's cluelessness because he's a genuine idiot, but guys like @Front242 and @GameSetAndMath white knighting this issue while completely ignoring facts baffle me.

Again, where has this Nadal being coached thing come from? Because of some random incident in 2010? And I like the constant namedropping of Toni, when last I checked he stopped coaching him.

So yeah I don't expect Front to answer my question since he literally remembers events that never happened (Nadal medical timeouts vs Petzschner and Federer) and GSM disappears whenever called out on his flawed reasoning. But I'm just curious.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Did it ever dawn on you that he had a groin strain before the final and in the first week of the tournament? It obviously didn't to either you or Pat Cash, who incidentally has made plenty of idiotic comments post retirement. The guy hadn't played for over 6 months before Hopman Cup ffs. That was 100% legit. Of course someone who hadn't played in over 6 months was likely to have a few aches and pains.

https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/federer-hampered-by-groin-niggle/3136693/

There's just one link and it took me 1 second to find it. Don't be lazy.

Ah yes, a groin strain that was so bad he won 3 back to back marathons and played like the next coming of Christ in the 5th set vs. Nadal. Dude, be consistent with your arguments at least. 100% legit? A Federer fan in this very thread said it was payback. This is ridiculous.

 

[Front242]

Ah yes, a groin strain that was so bad he won 3 back to back marathons and played like the next coming of Christ in the 5th set vs. Nadal. Dude, be consistent with your arguments at least. 100% legit? A Federer fan in this very thread said it was payback. This is ridiculous.

He started to notice an issue in set 3 and lost it 6-1 against Wawrinka. Could it be that it was sore because he was back playing the world's top players in best of 5 after 6 months off? Give me a break. That's fair enough if Darth thinks it was a BS MTO. I don't. For the record, AP stupidly claimed I have no opinions of my own. Well, guess what AP if you're reading...I do. The article says it wasn't and he himself says "The leg wasn't better or worse in the fifth. I felt tightness throughout the match, and I felt like it slowed me down."

Not all 5 setters are marathons btw. This is not Nadal we are talking about but Federer. Typically a lot of his 5 setters are the same length as a 3 set Nadal match. That match against Wawrinka was only 3 hours 5 minutes long. The match against Nishikori was 3 hours 24 minutes. These were NOT marathons. This shows what's wrong with this forum. You have morons like AP claiming I have no opinion of my own (clearly I do 'cos I saw it as legit muscle pain from 6 months off and then straight into best of 5 against the world's best) and then you have people saying a legit Federer fan claimed it was payback so therefore that means it's gospel and has to be true.

The next coming of Christ btw quickly went down 3-1 in the 5th after the MTO. Amazing stuff this next coming of Christ.

 

[Ricardo]

Where does Becker himself say that? Pls show. Djoker said something similar but he is the offender trying to be defensive, and we know how morally corrupted he is...oxygen egg, yeah right. Got Marko Djokovic into tournament he wasn’t qualified for and a qualified player lost his spot? Sure.

Even Murray doesn’t get coached during matches, and he is a whinge. Everyone does it? Fuck off you are a clown liar.

where did Becker say that as you CLAIMED?

 

[Moxie]

Did it ever dawn on you that he had a groin strain before the final and in the first week of the tournament? It obviously didn't to either you or Pat Cash, who incidentally has made plenty of idiotic comments post retirement. The guy hadn't played for over 6 months before Hopman Cup ffs. That was 100% legit. Of course someone who hadn't played in over 6 months was likely to have a few aches and pains.

https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/federer-hampered-by-groin-niggle/3136693/

There's just one link and it took me 1 second to find it. Don't be lazy.

The point here is not if a player is in need of a trainer due to injury. I know you like to claim that Rafa takes fake ones, which is why you assumed that I was claiming that Roger wasn't bothered by something. It's pretty ridiculous how much you disbelieve Rafa's injuries, since they have hampered so much of his career, when it is Roger who is so rarely injured through the years. Anyway, charges of "gamesmanship" come up with the timing of the MTO. Roger lost the 4th and then he needed to see the trainer. As JMac says, things hurt worse when you lose a set than when you win it, but if you're going to look side-eye at the timing of a Nadal MTO, you should apply the same standard with Roger. But, of course, that won't happen.

 

[Moxie]

where did Becker say that as you CLAIMED?

I already answered this above, but here's a link about it:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/t...ms-after-Boris-Beckers-coaching-comments.html

In the post above I said that Novak had been fined twice since, but that is incorrect. He was fined in 2011 (at AO) and 2013 for on-court coaching violations, both at Slams, and before Becker joined his team. The confusion came from this article, where the wording as to timing is more ambiguous:

https://www.foxsports.com/tennis/story/did-boris-becker-reveal-that-novak-djokovic-cheated-062815

 

[Front242]

The point here is not if a player is in need of a trainer due to injury. I know you like to claim that Rafa takes fake ones, which is why you assumed that I was claiming that Roger wasn't bothered by something. It's pretty ridiculous how much you disbelieve Rafa's injuries, since they have hampered so much of his career, when it is Roger who is so rarely injured through the years. Anyway, charges of "gamesmanship" come up with the timing of the MTO. Roger lost the 4th and then he needed to see the trainer. As JMac says, things hurt worse when you lose a set than when you win it, but if you're going to look side-eye at the timing of a Nadal MTO, you should apply the same standard with Roger. But, of course, that won't happen.

Nadal's injuries hampering his career is frankly a load of bs. He's won 18 slams too many for a lot of people with those supposedly terribly bad knees that HAVE NEVER HAD ANY SURGERY. Tsonga, by comparison, has had absolutely tons of knee surgeries and is as slow as a snail now and only AP thinks he's still a good player because he once was but he's not anymore for a long time. And the reason is: tons of surgeries and I'm citing that as a true example of injuries hampering someone's career unlike the silliness claimed by Nadal fans.

Nadal is still moving great and is still very fast. What does that tell you? It tells me personally that all the over talked crap about his injuries is just bs. They haven't affected him that much at all. Because he lacks the shot making skills of other top players, he has no choice but to adopt this go for broke reckless defending but this same physical speed and agility is what won him what it did and without playing this way he wouldn't have won anywhere near as much.

Of course things hurt more when you lose a set but there's also adrenaline pushing you through the pain barrier so you could say the polar opposite too. Federer has NEVER EVER left the court before his opponent served for the match or sat there changing bandages on his shoes before the opponent serves for the match. Wonder why that is? Because he's not a prick, that's why. Roger had also had a known injury reported before the final of the AO 2017 and had groin issues all tournament so this is completely different than a phantom mystery ailment that just appeared like a puff of smoke at the end of the match before the opponent served for it or when losing. One is sporting and has won many awards for sportsmanship as a result and the other isn't and hasn't. It's as simple as that.