I would say Novak's tennis IQ is high, as he found solution to Rafa's game pattern. Fed also found after many years of stubborn failure, that he made changes to make it work.
The perfect player
- Thread starter Ricardo
- Start date
brokenshoelace
Grand Slam Champion
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 9,380
- Reactions
- 1,334
- Points
- 113
What % would you say Toni's signals played in Nadal's 18 majors? What about Moya's signals? Serious question...
I wouldn't keep stats to calculate what %, as if it's a question that deserves an answer. What % do you think Sharapova's drug contributed to her results? nobody ever put % on that but for all we know, she got banned.
brokenshoelace
Grand Slam Champion
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 9,380
- Reactions
- 1,334
- Points
- 113
knew you were trying with a smart ass comeback, as usual. For starters, who would ask as stupid a question as % gained from gamesmanship? come on, enlighten us with why it was not an incredibly idiotic question.
DarthFed
The GOAT
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 17,724
- Reactions
- 3,477
- Points
- 113
Yes actually I do think Nadal's problem-solving gets overrated. With that said Nadal and Djokovic are the ones most likely to turn matches around after a bad set but that has to do with them being walls who are mentally tougher than everyone else. Heck I'd probably put Djokovic ahead of anyone in that regard.
The "adjustments" from them are oftentimes lifting the intensity, refusing to miss, etc. instead of tactical changes. Nadal's most frequent tactical adjustment is return position. Sometimes he is 30 feet behind the baseline instead of 100
brokenshoelace
Grand Slam Champion
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 9,380
- Reactions
- 1,334
- Points
- 113
The question is stupid, but it's meant to be, in order to highlight how fucking stupid someone would have to be to actually think this has any serious effect on a career in which a player has won 18 majors. But of course, this wasn't enough, you had to take stupidity a step further -- true to form, I might add -- by making a PED analogy. Bravo, sir.
brokenshoelace
Grand Slam Champion
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 9,380
- Reactions
- 1,334
- Points
- 113
This is simplistic vague talk. "Being a wall," "lifting intensity" and "refusing to miss" aren't just mental buttons you push. You refuse to miss by hitting the ball a certain way (whether taking pace off or actually going for more), and that in itself is a conscious adjustment (and btw you're equating tennis IQ with tactical changes which isn't entirely accurate. Tactics are only a part of tennis IQ). Also, being a wall, isn't just running after the ball and keeping it in play. There's a lot of anticipation, strategy, positioning, etc...that goes into it, and again, these are adjustments the players make.
DarthFed
The GOAT
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 17,724
- Reactions
- 3,477
- Points
- 113
No, I was equating adjustments to tactical changes. Im well aware there is more to tennis IQ than just the ability to adjust on the fly. I'd put Nadal probably on top overall when it comes to tennis IQ but Djokovic and even Federer are close in that regard.
I think you are trying really hard to separate lifting the intensity to become a wall with other changes. In the biggest moments we know Nadal and Djokovic are simply not going to miss much. A lot of that is focus and intensity that comes (or should come) in bigger moments.
Front242
The GOAT
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 23,004
- Reactions
- 3,943
- Points
- 113
Maybe we just don't agree. The way I see it, Nadal hits tons of passive short balls right bang in the middle of the court a hell of a lot. A guy has a big serve so let's return serve from the state next door eg. against Anderson at the USO. I mean, it's boring as hell to watch but it worked.
Not sure who I'd give the nod to for tennis IQ but honestly I just don't see anything out of the ordinary with regard to Nadal in that department over anyone else.
Nadalfan2013
Multiple Major Winner
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2018
- Messages
- 2,768
- Reactions
- 1,426
- Points
- 113
Front242
The GOAT
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 23,004
- Reactions
- 3,943
- Points
- 113
The title of the thread should be "Rafael Nadal".Moderators, can you please change it? Thx
I'm sure that can be done. But that means deleting "The perfect player" 'cos you requested the thread be renamed with just his name.
Moxie
Multiple Major Winner
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 43,821
- Reactions
- 14,981
- Points
- 113
While I don't agree with your assessment of Rafa's play, there is no point in debating it with you. But not likely his style of play has nothing to do with how he solves problems mid-match, and his tennis IQ when deciding when to be patient, when to turn to aggression, and how to play different players. Broken says most people around here recognize it, except you and Darth, for reasons that are obvious. I'd add a few others, tbh. But who do you like, then, for Tennis IQ? That was Ricardo's first original question.
brokenshoelace
Grand Slam Champion
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 9,380
- Reactions
- 1,334
- Points
- 113
Actually, it's funny you should mention the above because A) it's not true. I mean, the passive short balls in the middle of the court happening often hasn't been a thing in a long time and B) Nadal's return of serve is actually one of the aspects that highlight his IQ the most. The shot itself (meaning his return of serve) isn't all that special. In fact, I'd say, from a pure ball-striking perspective, it can be sub-par by his standards. But watch how he makes small adjustments to his court positioning when receiving throughout the match, the way he adjusts based on whether his opponent is serving on ad side or the deuce side, how often he actually stands even farther for second serves than first serves, the way he anticipates and starts reading serves as the match progresses, when he decides to actually step up, etc... it's one of the more fascinating aspects of his game from a problem solving perspective, even if I actually hate the nature of his return game. The way he's made it work is remarkable and it has little to do with ball striking.
Front242
The GOAT
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 23,004
- Reactions
- 3,943
- Points
- 113
You sound like AP now. Most people here recognize it? News to me. Even if that were the case, and I doubt it is, the majority are not always right and that's a fact.
I already stated I don't know who to choose in terms of tennis IQ but I don't see anything out of the ordinary with regard to Nadal.
All the stuff you mentioned (when to be aggressive, when to be patient and how to play different players) applies to literally tons of players who do all this well and only the 1 dimensional ball bashers play the same way all the time.
but you shouldn't be the one complaining about stupidity since you are the one who started it (% thing). Now define 'serious effect', its got to have some effect...….or he wouldn't do it at all, would he? one thing I know for sure, he is not stupid; and you should learn from your idol.
I would think all the antics he does helps, which is why he does it. Does anyone really think Rafa accidentally make other players wait to start, wait to serve, jump up and down right next to them, have uncle Tony signalling, if he didn't think it helps? doesn't always work, then again nothing is guaranteed to win you matches but whatever increases your chance.
brokenshoelace
Grand Slam Champion
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 9,380
- Reactions
- 1,334
- Points
- 113
Again, the % question was a response to the implication that Toni's gestures (and let's remind everyone he no longer coaches his nephew) have a significant effect on Nadal's success.
On a micro level, I'm sure they've helped him here and there. But he's won 18 majors, so to even bring that up as part of his success on a macro level is beyond ridiculous. Comparing that to PEDs is even more outrageous.
