The Grass is always Greener - 2021

MargaretMcAleer

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Federer needs match play that is obvious and also understanding seeing he has been off the tour,recovering from knee surgeries
In saying that it is my opinion after going out early in Halle,he should have played another grass tournament to get some more match play which is vital to him before Wimbledon.
 

GameSetAndMath

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I just double checked. Roger has never retired in the middle of a match in his entire career that spans more than 1500 matches. I believe he considers it a sportsmanship thing. If you are fit enough to enter a match, you should at least try to complete the match and give the opponent a sense of satisfaction of defeat over yourself even if you are injured. He does this not only against important players, but even against no name players.

I am not saying that this rule should be literally followed by everybody in every circumstance. But one should try to do so except in extreme circumstances. If it is obvious that you are going to hurt yourself, you should retire. On the other hand, I have seen players (don't want to mention names) retiring when the score is 2-5 in the final set and things like that. Even if you are badly injured (actually these people were not), I am sure you can stand in the court for 3 more minutes and let the opponent serve four aces and give him the satisfaction of a completed victory.

Roger might have been concerned about his ability to complete the next match @RG also. It is possible that this may have played a role in his withdrawal from the tournament. I am not saying this is the case; just that it is possible.

If not entering a tournament is morally superior to quitting it in the middle, then so is not playing a match than quitting the match in the middle.
The latter one is even more so, as it is more easily predictable being over a short period of time.
 
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Jelenafan

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I never said anything about Wimbledon. You are trying to deflect from your fallacious assumption that it was all preplanned and Fed did not enter RG with the intention of going as far as his body will allow.

It is his body. He has the right to decide when to push it and when to pull back.

A player may not go after a ball that is difficult to get in an ordinary point. But, if it were the match point, they might do it. You cannot accuse the player of not putting faithful effort for the former case.

Finally, I think Fed has now played 1513 matches. As far as I can recall, he gave walkover in three matches. This is one, a walkover to Novak at ATP finals after a gruelling match with Stan and a walkover to Blake in a minor ATP tourney. Similarly his retirement during a match is almost non-existent. I would let you find similar figures for other members of Big 3/4 and post them (before I do).

You people are making a mountain out of a molehill. As I said before, if Fed has entered into Stuttgart (which was being held during second week of RG) and got out of RG (despite still being in it) in the middle just to play on grass, that would be disrespectful to RG. Not if he quits in the middle to protect his body from anticipated damage if he continues. In case you are not aware, lot of lower ranked players routinely enter into a GS and at the same time also into a tourney that starts during the second week of that GS (as they don't expect to make it to second week of GS).
You dont get it.

I understand why Federer did what he did.

But to think he wouldnt be subject to criticism I leave to the Fed fanatics.
 

GameSetAndMath

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Because if Roger didn't intend to get through the whole tournament, he might have bailed a round sooner. Or not have played at all. Surely this makes sense to you?

The quality of arguments in these boards! :facepalm::lol3:
 
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GameSetAndMath

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You dont get it.

I understand why Federer did what he did.

But to think he wouldnt be subject to criticism I leave to the Fed fanatics.

I am all ears. Please explain.

For your information, here are the stats:


# of matches involved in​
# of withdrawals before start.​
# of reitrments during the match​
Ralph
1235​
7​
9​
Roger
1521​
4​
0​
 
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GameSetAndMath

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In 2014, when he withdrew in the ATP finals against Novak also he did not have any real injuries. He actually came out and announced about an hour before the match saying unfortunately he cannot play as he is not match fit after the draining match with Stan the previous night. Some even bothered to accuse him of saving himself for the Davis Cup that was scheduled to run the following week. Why would DC be more important than ATP finals, even though he has never won DC.

But, I get the real reason for all this drama. If dog bites man, it is not news. If man bites dog, it is. Given that Roger's withdrawals happen once in a blue moon, it becomes a big news and people float lot of conspiracy theories around it.
 

Front242

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Right, it started in the heat of the late day, and who won the first set? I'm not making an excuse out of it, I'm just saying that you're amusing to say that Medvedev would have done COMPLETELY differently at a different part of the day, and Roger, too, you've said, but no notion that it affected the Nadal/Djokovic SF. You often don't compare apples to apples, but just say stuff that suits you.
Haha, ok, so Nadal won set 1 when it was roasting hot and then lost when it dropped 3C max. OKKKKKKKKKAYYYY. When Federer's last match against Koepfer match ended I was curious what the temperature was and checked weather for Paris and it was 21C / 70F after 1am. That IS NOT cold. Nadal and Djokovic played hours before this on an even hotter day. This is not about saying anything to suit myself. Did you not read where I correctly pointed out the winner last year in OCTOBER (!) when it was cold was Nadal over Djokovic in a completely one sided match so, NO, the weather is not much of a factor with matches between those two as much as it is with other players.

Djokovic lost badly last year 'cos his strategy was absolute crap. Failed drop shot after drop shot for much of the match. This year he won by completely changing his approach from set 2 onwards (nothing to do with the weather ffs) by hammering Nadal's backhand consistently for the bulk of the match. I mentioned in the semi thread "I wonder where he got that idea from :( " since Nadal did this to Federer for years and years. It was his ONLY strategy against Federer. This year he got a taste of his own medicine and it worked for Djokovic and he won. That's it.
 
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Moxie

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Berrettini into the finals at Queens (d. DeMinaur.) Awaits the winner of Shapo/Norrie. Rublev into the final at Halle, to play the winner of FAA/Humbert, which is starting to look like Humbert.
 
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Front242

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Berretini has a good game for grass. I remember thinking he'd do well at Wimbledon 2019 after his performance before the tournament started and thought he might trouble Federer but Roger absolutely mangled him 6-1 6-2 6-2 which was a brilliant performance that day. Interested to see how he does there this year.
 
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don_fabio

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Berretini has a good game for grass. I remember thinking he'd do well at Wimbledon 2019 after his performance before the tournament started and thought he might trouble Federer but Roger absolutely mangled him 6-1 6-2 6-2 which was a brilliant performance that day. Interested to see how he does there this year.
His serve when working is almost impossible to break. This year at RG he gave Novak real tough time in set 3 and 4. Berretini has a game for QF at Wimbledon, possibly even more. If he met Roger this year in Wimbledon he would do much better considering all.
 

Front242

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His serve when working is almost impossible to break. This year at RG he gave Novak real tough time in set 3 and 4. Berretini has a game for QF at Wimbledon, possibly even more. If he met Roger this year in Wimbledon he would do much better considering all.
Most likely it'd be the end of Roger if they met but given their rankings it would mean Roger is playing a lot better than expected so all bets would be off for me.
 

the AntiPusher

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Berretini has a good game for grass. I remember thinking he'd do well at Wimbledon 2019 after his performance before the tournament started and thought he might trouble Federer but Roger absolutely mangled him 6-1 6-2 6-2 which was a brilliant performance that day. Interested to see how he does there this year.
Nah.. I'm surprised that you haven't paid closer to KSkate's Pretty boy toy..Matteo doesn't have the quick feet of the Big 3, the crazy mad Russian, the young Greek or the lanky German.. Berretini's game is too one dimensional and predictable..He does move better than the Canadian missile but that ain't saying much. However, I do like his game and if his footwork can improve like Sharapovo's did , he could get better.

KSkate maybe you can have Matteo's team come to the Chi and maybe Sweetness from the movie Roll Bounce can teach him how to skate.. jajaja
 

GameSetAndMath

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Federer needs match play that is obvious and also understanding seeing he has been off the tour,recovering from knee surgeries
In saying that it is my opinion after going out early in Halle,he should have played another grass tournament to get some more match play which is vital to him before Wimbledon.

As you front said it is a tough decision with downside to both. I actually prefer the decision he made. Not playing the week before GS.
 

Jelenafan

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Nah.. I'm surprised that you haven't paid closer to KSkate's Pretty boy toy..Matteo doesn't have the quick feet of the Big 3, the crazy mad Russian, the young Greek or the lanky German.. Berretini's game is too one dimensional and predictable..He does move better than the Canadian missile but that ain't saying much. However, I do like his game and if his footwork can improve like Sharapovo's did , he could get better.

KSkate maybe you can have Matteo's team come to the Chi and maybe Sweetness from the movie Roll Bounce can teach him how to skate.. jajaja
However one-dimensional can with the right conditions do well on grass, Raonic reached the Wimbledon finals one year with his game.
 
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the AntiPusher

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FAA couldn't win the semi's..this time he just ran into a hot player on grass..FAA played good tennis
 

MargaretMcAleer

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As you front said it is a tough decision with downside to both. I actually prefer the decision he made. Not playing the week before GS.
Going from clay to grass with little practice is challenging,Roger stated his main focus was Wimbledon this year,that is why I stand by my previous comments he should have played a few grass tournaments in preparation for Wimbledon and not play RG this year.The draw at Wimbledon will no doubt be interesting this year.
 

MargaretMcAleer

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He who has the 'best hair in tennis' Rublev has made the final in Halle playing Humbert,should be a good match up.
 
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GameSetAndMath

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Going from clay to grass with little practice is challenging,Roger stated his main focus was Wimbledon this year,that is why I stand by my previous comments he should have played a few grass tournaments in preparation for Wimbledon and not play RG this year.The draw at Wimbledon will no doubt be interesting this year.

He probably wanted to check whether his body can hold up for 5 set matches and so his choice of RG.

This year due to RG being postponed, it cut into grass season. Otherwise, he would have had time to play RG and then Stuttgart and then Halle (that would not be too many tourneys as he is just coming back and expected to not go deep in tourneys very fast).