Soccer/Football, The Beautiful Game

[britbox]

My all-time formation (I'll leave out Maradonna who, despite seeing a ton of, most of it was via tape recordings and youtube videos. Wasn't born when he was at his absolute peak).

I'll also try to make the team functional and balanced, as the above formations, great as they are, are too offense oriented, which makes sense considering many of the greats deserve a spot and are offensive players. So as a result, some names will be left out for the purpose of practicality. I'm basically making this as if I were building a real team.

The formation is 4-1-3-2.

Goalkeeper: Gianluigi Buffon.

The best Goalkeeper of the past 20 years bar none, and the best of all time IMO. The reason why I say he's the best of all time is I think goalkeeping has evolved so much in Football. From training methods to work out regimens to roles (case in point, Manuel Neuer, who's basically a libero). I think many limit goalkeeping to shot-stopping but I feel there's a distinction. Obviously you have to be a great shot-stopper, which Buffon undoubtedly is, but making great saves is not everything. In fact, Iker Casillas has probably made more miracles than Buffon and has had better reflexes in his prime, but he doesn't command the area, organize the defense, and absolutely dominate the 6-yard box like Buffon. He also has made way more mistakes, which is a testament to Buffon's technique, fundamentals, and positioning. A true titan, and an absolute footballing legend. Nobody deserves to be in the upcoming Champions League final more than this guy.

Left Back: Javier Zanetti.

What does it say about how good this guy was that I have him as my left back when he's mainly known as a right back? But that's how versatile he was. In his best ever season with Mourinho in 2010 (when Inter won the treble), Zanetti mainly played as a defensive midfielder and a left full back and excelled at both roles, despite playing "out of position" (Maicon was the right back). Ambidextrous, physical, reads the game like no other, NEVER seen him taken on, otherworldly stamina, terrific on both ends of the pitch. A legend.

Center Back: Alessandro Nesta.

The single greatest man-to-man marker I have ever seen. The greatest tackler I have ever seen. The best anticipation I have ever seen. Commanding in the air, physically imposing, quick, agile, flexible, fundamentally perfect. An absolute rock. AC Milan wouldn't have been the dominant force in 2003-2007 without him.

Center Back: Fabio Cannavaro.

Nesta may have been the best defender I've ever seen on a consistent basis, but I don't think he (or anyone else) has ever reached the highs Cannavaro did in the 2006 World Cup. The single greatest defensive display I've ever had the pleasure of watching. Italy conceded two goals all tournament: One was an own goal in the group stage, and one was a dubious penalty scored by Zidane in the world cup final. Says everything, really.

Right Back: Cafu.

Imagine this: There was a time when AC Milan's defense consisted of Cafu, Stam, Nesta and Maldini. How's that for scary? Cafu redefined his position. Yes, Brazil always produced terrific attacking full backs but unlike the likes of Roberto Carlos, Cafu actually knew how to defend too, having been a staple in Serie A with both Roma and Milan. With two world cups to his resume and another world cup final appearance, as well as two champions league trophees and two Serie A titles, they don't get much more accomplished than this guy.

Defensive Midfielder: Patrick Vieira

To be honest, good as he was, he might feel out of place compared to other guys on this list, but in his position, few were better. It just happens to be an unheralded position. It's also a relatively "recent" position, made famous by Dunga. But in his prime, Vieira was something special. Captained Arsenal to a legendary invincible EPL run, and won the world cup with France. A workhorse in midfield with underrated technique to boot.

Central Midfielder: Xavi.

Perfection. In his prime, he never set a foot wrong. Nobody had that sort of combination of vision, calm and technique. Few players free up space with a single touch like he did, and he was at the heart of arguably the greatest side in history as Barcelona terrorized Europe in the Guardiola era. Truly helped define an era of football and there wouldn't be a tiki-taka (much as I hate that term) without Xavi. Oh, and I heard the Spanish national team wasn't too bad either, and he had a thing or two to do with it.

Central midfielder: Andres Iniesta.

The most talented midfielder of this generation and the best footballer to ever come out of Spain IMO. Xavi's class is undeniable, but there Barcelona and more importantly, the Spanish national team wouldn't have achieved what it did without Iniesta. He almost had all of Xavi's qualities, except he was quicker, had better technique, better dribbling, more offensively creative, etc... He really gave Spain a different dimension in the final third. Other than Lionel Messi, I've never seen a player operate in tight spaces as well as Iniesta. Legend has it that he and Xavi have given away possession a total of 3 times in their 4 seasons under Guardiola (I just made that up but it wouldn't shock me, lol).

Central midfielder: Zinedine Zidane.

Elegance, genius, efficiency, and the first touch of a god. The greatest playmaker of all time. Nuff said. Truly a once in a lifetime talent.

Forward (false 9): Lionel Messi.

I mean, it's Lionel Messi. I really don't need to add anything else.

Striker: Ronaldo (Brazil).

The greatest striker of all time. At his best, simply unstoppable.

Squad shape:

------------Buffon------------
Cafu--Nesta--Cannavaro--Zanetti
------------Vieira-----------
----Zidane--Xavi---Iniesta---
-------Messi--------------
-------------Ronaldo----------

Substitutes:
GK: Iker Casillas
D: Paulo Maldini (I don't feel good about leaving him off, so he could easily replace Zanetti)
D: Lillian Thuram
M: Andrea Pirlo
F: Ronaldinho
F: Cristiano Ronaldo
S: Thierry Henry

I like that team although I'd have Maldini starting. I was actually wondering if there would be a consensus pick and my money was on Maldini - money lost!

 

[Kieran]

Good stuff, fellas, that's kinda how I see Stevie too, but I agree with both of you: he's have progressed under Mourinho (and being part of a better team) but he was right to stay at Liverpool, because of the reasons BB gives. There aren't going to be too many footballers like Gerrard in the future, one-club servants who have the opportunity to win more elsewhere but stay at the club they love out of loyalty and a conviction to win things, but win them there.

Terry, Adams, Gerrard, Giggs, Le Tissier is another. Players who had offers to move, although in the case of most these named, they had great success where they were. Gerrard was immense for Liverpool, but was letdown maybe by their choices of manager.

Best match? Champions League Final in 2005? He showed his leadership qualities there, that's for sure. As a comparison with Souness, I'd have to give it to Graeme, but Souness played in maybe the greatest club side I've seen in English football. It gets a lot better when you have Hansen, Dalglish, and Rush, etc, around you...

 

[brokenshoelace]

How good was Steven Gerrard? Superb in his prime... which is a good few years ago to tell the truth. Kieran - I loved Souness as a player, but I'd put Gerrard marginally above him.

I agree and disagree with Broken on a couple of things... Yes, I think he might have gone on to even greater heights under Mourinho. Some of which you would attribute to Jose, but even more to do with the supporting cast he would have had. (Lampard would have had to be cast aside... I couldn't see those two in the same team and Gerrard was without a shadow of doubt the superior player. That in itself was a huge issue for the England national team trying to fit both players in the same team and was an abject failure). However, Chelsea had a far better cast of players for a large part of Gerrard's career.

Joining Chelsea would have killed his relationship with the fans - he'd never have been forgiven.

The Kop generally welcome most players back after they've moved on. If a player signed for Man United or Everton then it's a little different (the former never happens directly - no player has directly moved between the clubs for something like 50 years. Michael Owen moved indirectly and the Liverpool fans couldn't give tuppence about him these days). Peter Beardsley, Gary Ablett and a handful of other players who have ended up at Everton would get a mixed reception depending on the circumstances of the their departure.

Chelsea... This is a rivalry built up over the last 10-15 years to be honest. Liverpool are historically the second biggest club in England (after Man U) based on history, national and global fan base etc... Chelsea weren't even one of the top 2 clubs in London (Spurs and Arsenal) historically but have completely changed things up by way of a Russian Billionaire named Roman Abromovich splashing out huge amounts of cash. The Chelsea usurpers will always be considered to be a club buying success and their is a huge north/south divide in England anyway - politically and culturally. Chelsea are the type of club anyone in the North would hate by default.

Bottom line... If Gerrard had gone to Chelsea he would have been considered a guy who sold his soul to the devil. He's near to royalty to Liverpool and that will continue for the rest of his life. I still think he made the right choice.

Gerrard was never a deep lying midfielder in my eyes. He was an attacking midfielder who played best behind the strikers. He needed an Alonso, Hamman or a Mascherano to hold fort. I never liked him playing the holding role at all.

Oh I agree. I was merely talking from a technical standpoint, and not on a personal level (ie I was strictly looking at Gerrard's evolution as a player, not as a man and a crowd favorite).

I agree Gerrard's best came when he was an attacking midfielder, or even when he was utilized on the right by Rafa Benitez, but that's what I feel hurt his longevity and his evolution. I do think he had enough quality to succeed as a deep lying midfielder, but it was too late when he had moved into that position. I feel he needed to do it earlier to maintain his level at the top. As it stands, I agree, he never looked comfortable in that position.

Regardless, I think other than not winning the championship (and boy, that Chelsea slip will give nigthmares for the rest of his life), Gerrard shouldn't have regrets.

It's a blurry line, that. Choosing between doing what's best for you as a player and what's best for you as a person (which in turn would affect the player). I always thought Gerrard and Francesco Totti would have been even more heralded had they left their teams. Then again, they wouldn't be who they are in the eyes of their fans.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Good stuff, fellas, that's kinda how I see Stevie too, but I agree with both of you: he's have progressed under Mourinho (and being part of a better team) but he was right to stay at Liverpool, because of the reasons BB gives. There aren't going to be too many footballers like Gerrard in the future, one-club servants who have the opportunity to win more elsewhere but stay at the club they love out of loyalty and a conviction to win things, but win them there.

Terry, Adams, Gerrard, Giggs, Le Tissier is another. Players who had offers to move, although in the case of most these named, they had great success where they were. Gerrard was immense for Liverpool, but was letdown maybe by their choices of manager.

Best match? Champions League Final in 2005? He showed his leadership qualities there, that's for sure. As a comparison with Souness, I'd have to give it to Graeme, but Souness played in maybe the greatest club side I've seen in English football. It gets a lot better when you have Hansen, Dalglish, and Rush, etc, around you...

The 2005 Champions League final is a great metaphor for Gerrard's career. It really is so symbolic. He always played in a team that was a cut below Europe's elite (and at times, more than just a cut). Liverpool were severely outclassed in that match by Milan's midfield and individual talent. I remember Kaka tearing them to shreds in the first half. Then Gerrard single handedly willed his team back into the game in the span of 6 minutes, after which Milan dominated again, but Gerrard and Liverpool showed their resiliency. I'll never forget Gerrard switching to play as a right full back in extra time to defend Kaka.

He defied the odds in a team that was incredibly over-matched. Think of it that way. The squad that Benitez chose to play that final consisted of: Dudek, Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, Traore, Alonso, Luis Garcia, Gerrard, Riise, Kewell and Baros.

Milan's squad: Dida, Cafu, Staam, Nesta, Maldini, Gattuso, Pirlo, Seedorf, Kaka, Crespo, Shevchenko.

Truly one of the great European upsets.

 

[Kieran]

Interesting discussion about Ronaldo, "Is Ronaldo failing Real Madrid?"

Don't react too quick! The people in the article acknowledge his contribution to goal, but it's the rest of it they mean. There's an interesting analogy with Michael Jordan:

This reminded me of Phil Jackson and Michael Jordan in the NBA. Phil Jackson goes to Chicago Bulls as the coach. At the time, Michael Jordan is the best player in the world. He's the best assister, best rebounder and best scorer but he hadn't won a league with Chicago Bulls.

"Phil Jackson goes to him and says: 'A man cannot be an island. You have to give me less so the team has more.' Michael Jordan accepted that and it's exactly what happened. After that, Chicago Bulls won six titles.

 

[brokenshoelace]

i know what they're trying to say but still, "failure" is way too harsh considering the insane numbers he's putting up. Nevertheless, I do think there is blame to be put on the Real Madrid management, coaching staff and players for the relatively tame number of titles in the past years, especially with regards to La Liga. You won't win the champions league every year but 1 La Liga title since 2008, and two since 2003 is just terrible for a team of this caliber.

 

[Federberg]

I've never been a fan of the way Real Madrid do things. The idea of galacticos is entirely against the team ethic and they've paid for it in recent years. Yes the Barcelona team is extraordinarily talented but when you see Messi chasing back and disrupting opposition play the team ethic shines through. What Madrid have done with Bale this season is a microcosm of what is wrong with that team. Everything seems to be done to pacify Ronaldo, and getting rid of Di Maria last year was just crazy :nono. It had nothing to do with what would make the team most effective. He wasn't a Fiorentino Perez player so he was surplus to requirements despite the fact he was arguably their most important player last year. To play Bale as a right midfielder you are effectively eliminating his threat. As a Tottenham fan, it is so obvious to me. If Ancelotti had figured out a more fluid system that could accommodate that front 4 they would be doing much better. But he's going to pay for that error anyway. I'm fascinated to see if they jettison him, I think that would be colossally stupid but this is the team that got rid of Makalele when he was their best player, that refused to buy Ronaldinho because he was ugly :nono. I have absolutely no sympathy for them.

Ronaldo is in his 30s, while Bale is entering his peak years, surely they won't be stupid enough to get rid of Bale.. (PS, I'm not saying they should get rid of Ronaldo, simply that Bale has to be their future)

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

Barcelona claim league title, messi's 43 league goals behind Ronaldo on 48 but he won't mind that at all, messi seems unbothered by individual glory, part 1 of the potential treble is in the bag.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Xavi's last match in the Camp Nou. Standing ovation after his substitution:



What an absolutely world class footballer who defined an entire era of the so called "tiki-taka." He was at the heart of the Barcelona/Spain dominance of 2008-2012. The greatest central midfielder of all time for my money.

 

[britbox]

Scenes like that make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. Legend. Enough said.

 

[atttomole]

Ancelotti gets fired as rumored in the past few days. A very stupid move by Perez. I hear that Benitez will replace Ancelotti. While Benitez has had a good career as coach, I don't think he can do better than Ancelotti, especially with that dressing room with so many egos. Clearly, there was no better coach than Ancelotti among the available ones, and I am almost certain that Perez will be looking for another coach, this time next year.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Galatasaray won the league championship today and I have been partying like it is 1999!!!

 

[atttomole]

Barcelona claim league title, messi's 43 league goals behind Ronaldo on 48 but he won't mind that at all, messi seems unbothered by individual glory, part 1 of the potential treble is in the bag.

You never know. He may be bothered, but he just does not show it. He is not as expressive as Cristiano, and often he is seen as the better man.

 

[brokenshoelace]

So...Lionel Messi just did this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KHUPzhM3nk

As a Juve fan, I'm terrified.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

^^that's going to go down as one of the top10 goals of all time probably, his 2nd was brilliant in a different way..off the ball movement ghosting in and accelerating past defenders to score with outside of foot.

 

[Federberg]

When are people going to stop this nonsense about Messi being in the same class as Maradona and Pele. He may be the greatest dribbler of all time, but sorry, he ain't the greatest player of all time. FFS he has not been able to take an Argentinian side that also has Di Maria, Higuain, Tevez, Lavezzi, Lamela, Sergio Aguero, Mascherano. I mean good grief! He has not won a Copa America or a World cup with that quality of player backing him. It's embarrassing to even talk about him as greatest ever :nono

Yet again they failed at the final hurdle :cover

 

[atttomole]

I have to say that Messi had his best tournament for Argentina at the Copa America. He played well, but Chile were on a mission. They were playing for history since they had never won the tournament before. Playing for Barcelona is a perfect place for a superstar like Messi, and Messi has made his name playing for Barcelona. He is playing for the best team to ever play soccer at club level, which obviously has helped him. I think that becomes a problem whenever he has to play in a team that is not called Barcelona. Messi could change that by playing in a different club team. Messi is definitely one of the greatest to ever play soccer, but people get easily excited about the greatest ever thing. I also do not think he is the greatest ever. The problem with superstars like Messi is that they set high standards, and the criteria for greatness become stricter when it comes to superstars. I also remember they used to say the same of Ronaldo. Pundits used to say that he had to win a world cup to be considered among the greatest, and he won after coming from injury. Even after that, I would not consider Ronaldo the greatest ever, but he is in the conversation. So is Pele, Maradona and a few others.

 

[brokenshoelace]

When are people going to stop this nonsense about Messi being in the same class as Maradona and Pele. He may be the greatest dribbler of all time, but sorry, he ain't the greatest player of all time. FFS he has not been able to take an Argentinian side that also has Di Maria, Higuain, Tevez, Lavezzi, Lamela, Sergio Aguero, Mascherano. I mean good grief! He has not won a Copa America or a World cup with that quality of player backing him. It's embarrassing to even talk about him as greatest ever :nono

Yet again they failed at the final hurdle :cover

I agree he's not in the same class as Pele. He's at least 1 class above.

It's embarrassing to talk about a player with 4 champions leagues, 7 La Liga titles, 4 ballon d'ors with the 5th on the way, as the best ever? Because he lost two finals under two coaches who have no idea what they're doing?

 

[Federberg]

^I disagree. There comes a time when you can't blame it on the coach. He is so clearly not a leader. When his colleagues in the Barcelona team have international honours galore, you have to ask, are they the ones making it possible for him to win all those club honours? He's a phenomenal player, but the hype has run so far away from the facts in my view, it's laughable

 

[brokenshoelace]

^I disagree. There comes a time when you can't blame it on the coach. He is so clearly not a leader. When his colleagues in the Barcelona team have international honours galore, you have to ask, are they the ones making it possible for him to win all those club honours? He's a phenomenal player, but the hype has run so far away from the facts in my view, it's laughable

Iniesta was in garbage form all season, Xavi was bench player all season, Puyol is retired and the only one with international honors who was in remotely good form was Pique. That didn't stop Barcelona from sweeping through everything this season. It's either due to Messi or Pique. I'll go with the former.

i was in fact happy that the notion of "Messi can't do it without Inesta and Xavi" died this season (though apparently not), since both were virtually non factors (though I'il give Iniesta credit for a good performance in the champions league final).

To me, the notion that a player who scores 80+ goals a year, many of which of pure individual brilliance, is doing it due to teammates is laughable. I mean that's the knock against Messi? That he lost a world cup final when Di Maria and Aguero were injured, the coach didn't take Tevez, and his strikers just couldn't finish (which included some awful misses by Higuain and Palacio) in a TEAM sports? That's his biggest crime? That he lost on penalties to Chile because his teammates couldn't convert a penalty?

But Pele, who was a bench player in his first world cup win till the final, was injured early in his second world cup win and was a non factor, was a part of perhaps the greatest international side of all time in his third world cup win (where he was admittedly brilliant), is in a league of his own? Despite never playing in Europe, playing in an era of football were goals came like candy cause nobody had any idea how to defend, and spent his club career in Brazil? Yeah, I'm not buying it.

I find it insanely harsh that we're judging players simply on whether they win events that take place once every four years, and completely sweeping under the rug what they do week in, week out, year in, year out.

I laugh at the notion of Pele being the best ever. To me, that's the same as claiming Laver is the best ever (and he would have been statistically, had he been allowed to play more slams).

Maradona? I'll give that some long and hard thought. He was something else. But if Messi isn't Maradona, he's not too far behind.