Soccer/Football, The Beautiful Game

[atttomole]

Real Madrid players look very nervous. They are not passing the ball well.They know that if Juve scores it may be over.

 

[Federberg]

I don't really want to see an El Classico final. So I'm quite pleased right now

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Barca-Juve it is.

 

[atttomole]

Super Juve. They fully deserved reaching the final. They defended and attacked well. It looked a bit like men against boys to me. Real were nervous throughout the match, which affected their usually fluent passing. Juve's excellent play all over the pitch also made it hard for Real to play their game.

 

[brokenshoelace]

JUVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Sorry, they're my favorite team, and football is my favorite sport...so yeah, I'm excited.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Messi is the greatest player in Football history at the club level, and it's not even close.

Here's what astounds me about Messi, let's look at the great players of the previous generations in the past 25 years or so: Roberto Baggio, Zidane, Brazlian Ronaldo, Henry, Ronaldinho, etc... These guys are ridiculously good. Yet there is a clear, WIDE gap between Messi and them. I mean, Zidane was the greatest player I've ever seen this side of Diego Maradona, and I legitimately can't even offer a devil's advocate argument for him being as good as Messi.

I'd put Messi above Zidane also and at club level he's one of the greatest players I've seen without a doubt. Still, the best player I've witnessed was Maradona. Largely because he could carry very average teams. He almost single handedly won 2 Serie A titles with an average supporting cast at Napoli and carried the Argentina national team to the 86 World Cup.

Most underrated "great" player I've witnessed was Zico. I loved watching that guy play - it was like poetry in motion.

It's a tie between Messi and Maradona for me, but I admit, I've seen far more of Messi (exposure helps. Every move he makes is on TV and Youtube these days). Maradona, IMO, is the most talented player in history. What he can do with the ball, nobody does. He also has playing in the Serie A on his side. Again, when it was the best league in the world, and against the best defenders in the world. More than just winning to league titles with Napoli, he won the UEFA Cup with them, and unlike the Euro League today, the UEFA Cup was not some forgettable second rate tournament. Since only the champions played in the champions league, the rest of the top teams were all playing in the UEFA Cup. For Maradona to carry that team to such success explains why he has this demigod figure.

And then there's that 1986 World Cup....

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

Barcelona v juventus lol.......no el clasico final or messi v Ronaldo final shootout then.

 

[atttomole]

JUVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Sorry, they're my favorite team, and football is my favorite sport...so yeah, I'm excited.

I thought you equally liked tennis.

 

[Kieran]

Messi is the greatest player in Football history at the club level, and it's not even close.

Here's what astounds me about Messi, let's look at the great players of the previous generations in the past 25 years or so: Roberto Baggio, Zidane, Brazlian Ronaldo, Henry, Ronaldinho, etc... These guys are ridiculously good. Yet there is a clear, WIDE gap between Messi and them. I mean, Zidane was the greatest player I've ever seen this side of Diego Maradona, and I legitimately can't even offer a devil's advocate argument for him being as good as Messi.

I'd put Messi above Zidane also and at club level he's one of the greatest players I've seen without a doubt. Still, the best player I've witnessed was Maradona. Largely because he could carry very average teams. He almost single handedly won 2 Serie A titles with an average supporting cast at Napoli and carried the Argentina national team to the 86 World Cup.

Most underrated "great" player I've witnessed was Zico. I loved watching that guy play - it was like poetry in motion.

Yeah, Maradona was ridiculously gifted. Plus, he did it at the World Cup, which is where the greatest should be doing it. Zidane did too. Messi has been better than Ronaldo in that regard, but hardly groundshaking.

My favourite player growing up was Gerd Muller, and I don't know why. I think it was the quiet efficiency. No fuss, no muss, GOAL! He had so much ability, but he wasn't flashy in the slightest. Of course, he played in two of the greatest teams in history, both at club level, and internationally...

 

[brokenshoelace]

JUVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Sorry, they're my favorite team, and football is my favorite sport...so yeah, I'm excited.

I thought you equally liked tennis.

Nah, Football will always be my biggest passion.

 

[britbox]

Messi is the greatest player in Football history at the club level, and it's not even close.

Here's what astounds me about Messi, let's look at the great players of the previous generations in the past 25 years or so: Roberto Baggio, Zidane, Brazlian Ronaldo, Henry, Ronaldinho, etc... These guys are ridiculously good. Yet there is a clear, WIDE gap between Messi and them. I mean, Zidane was the greatest player I've ever seen this side of Diego Maradona, and I legitimately can't even offer a devil's advocate argument for him being as good as Messi.

I'd put Messi above Zidane also and at club level he's one of the greatest players I've seen without a doubt. Still, the best player I've witnessed was Maradona. Largely because he could carry very average teams. He almost single handedly won 2 Serie A titles with an average supporting cast at Napoli and carried the Argentina national team to the 86 World Cup.

Most underrated "great" player I've witnessed was Zico. I loved watching that guy play - it was like poetry in motion.

Yeah, Maradona was ridiculously gifted. Plus, he did it at the World Cup, which is where the greatest should be doing it. Zidane did too. Messi has been better than Ronaldo in that regard, but hardly groundshaking.

My favourite player growing up was Gerd Muller, and I don't know why. I think it was the quiet efficiency. No fuss, no muss, GOAL! He had so much ability, but he wasn't flashy in the slightest. Of course, he played in two of the greatest teams in history, both at club level, and internationally...

Gerd Muller... extreme German efficiency and another really underrated player.

 

[britbox]

OK guys... bit of fun. Pick your dream team... and the rules are you must have seen the player actually playing ( TV will suffice )... so unless you're 70 years old, guys like Pele and Puskas won't feature...

It's a bit tougher for posters who are longer in the tooth as they have a bigger spread to choose from...

Anyway, here are mine - I'm playing a 4-3-3.

Goalkeeper: Peter Shilton
Shilts was the best GK that came out of the UK in my lifetime. He won 125 caps for England, 2 European Cups with Nottingham Forest and would have been even more decorated if Ron Greenwood (former England manager) hadn't adopted a silly policy of alternating keepers with Ray Clemence for several years during Shilton's prime. As a Liverpool fan, I loved Clemence - but Shilton was better. His only real weakness was penalties.

Left Back: Paulo Maldini
Loved this guy. Best defender I've ever seen period. Could and did fill in anywhere along the back 4 with equal effect, but as a left back he was untouched. Milan legend.

Centre Defence: Franz Beckenbaur
I'm cheating a little with "The Kaiser" - I never saw him at his best, only his tail end with Hamburg and the New York Cosmos. Even then he was a cool cat.... Can't look beyond him.

Centre Defence: Cannavaro
The "Berlin wall" doesn't need much too much of an introduction. One of the best players to lace up boots and widely underappreciated IMO. 2006 FIFA player of the year, which for a defender is a rare thing.

Right Back: Cafu
How underrated was Cafu? 142 caps and 2 world cups. Solid as an ox. Often Unfairly looked over IMO for the flashier (but less effective) team mate patrolling the other slot - Roberto Carlos.

Left Midfield: Johan Cruyff
Like Beckenbaur, I was a little lucky to spot the tail end of Cruyff's career. If you ever saw him play, you can't bypasss the fella. He was electrifying and could turn a game on it's head. Never saw him "live" at his best but for a period he was the best player in Europe bar none.

Centre Midfield: Zinedine Zidane
Zidane was never a flashy player like a Cruyff, Maradona or even a Platini, but he dictated games, their tempo and made players around him far better. One of the best players in the last 20 years IMO.

Centre Midfield: Diego Maradona
Best player I've ever seen. It seemed like the ball was glued to his feet. Dominated matches and carried average teams to great heights. Diego could play as an attacking midfielder or he could play up front. In fact, he could play anywhere. In this formation, he'd be my attacking midfielder and #10.

Striker: Zico
If Maradona was the best player I've ever seen, Zico was my favourite player of all time. Arguably the best player in the world in the early 80s. Like Maradona, Zico could play dropped off from the strikers but in this formation I'd have to fit him up front. No slouch when it comes to goalscoring and best player never to win a world cup.

Striker: Messi
Have to fit him in as as striker but I'd give him artistic license to roam. Not description necessary for football fans of any age. Messi is a fantastic player.

Striker: Ronaldo
The buck toothed legend who banged in 62 goals for Brazil and who can forget his tenure at Barcelona? This guy was the real deal combining strength, pace and a nose for goal.


Subs:
GK: Peter Schmeichel
D: Franco Baresi
D: Steve Nicol
M: Michele Platini
M: Socrates
S: Gerd Muller
S: Marco Van Basten

Of the subs, Steve Nicol will stand out as a bizarre choice, but he was the most underrated player to wear a Liverpool shirt when the club were kings of Europe. Nicol is more of a utility choice - he'd do a job for you anywhere. Quick, solid and dependable. The rest are household names and need no introduction.

 

[atttomole]

That is a formidable team. And here is mine. In goal I would pick Buffon, the best goalkeeper in the last 15 years, and one of the best goalkeepers in the history of the game. At the back I would use a central pairing of Franco Baresi and Alessandro Nesta. For me those two are impenetrable. On the right wingback I would play with Andreas Brehme, who could score with either foot at penalties or free kicks and could overlap very well. Paolo Maldini on the left; one of the best defenders ever and I could still have put him in central defence with no difference in his quality of play. Which means the whole defence is from the city of Milan. In midfield, I would choose the great Diego Maradona in the center. Diego is probably the most technically gifted player ever. On the right I would pick Lothar Matthaus, the German WC warrior who could score goals from any position, and was also a great ball winner. On the left I would pick the graceful Zinedine Zidane. This guy did not have speed but his touches were excellent and he scored important goals. Upfront, I would go with Roberto Baggio on the left, Ronaldo de Lima in the center and Lionel Messi on the right. However, the three in the front have the liberty to interchange positions since they can all run at defenders with the ball, and they are all deceptive. How do you mark those front three? If the front three are tightly marked, then Diego or Zidane will tear through the spaces that are left behind.

Buffon
Breheme Baresi Nesta Maldini

Matthaus Maradona Zidane

Messi Ronaldo de Lima Baggio

Bench
Casillas
Bergomi
Hierro
Xavi
Platini
Romario
Van Bastern

 

[Kieran]

Good idea!

GK: Schmeichel
Maldini, Beckenbauer, Baresi, Vogts
Giles, Maradona, Socrates,
Messi, Muller, Pele

Subs: Cruyff, Souness, Zidane, Cannavaro, Shilton.

Probably a totally unhinged side, but great to imagine!

 

[britbox]

^ I think most of us will have unhinged teams - putting square pegs into round holes - just to get our favoured players in.

Maybe we could do a functional team version later.

 

[britbox]

Steven Gerrard makes his last Liverpool appearance. Legend.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2trZ-waELnY[/video]


Zinedane Zidane: "I have said in the past that at his peak he was the best in the world I think it was the summer of 2004 I was having a conversation with Florentino (Perez) and I told him I wanted him to partner me in midfield for Madrid. I know the club tried twice but he wouldn’t leave Liverpool. Not many players turn down Real Madrid but I think that tells you a lot about the loyalty of the man."

 

[Kieran]

How would you rate him, Britbox? I always felt he was a little below the huge greats of the midfield, and Liverpool had some of them, but he was a great player nonetheless, and a leader on the field who transformed their fortunes in the great Champions League comeback against Milan. Loyal, and deserving of maybe better managers, because it's a shame he never got his hands on a league title...

 

[brokenshoelace]

Gerrard is a Liverpool legend. One of the best midfielders of his generation. Versatile, quick, terrific shooter, pretty good if at times erratic passing, physically gifted, heart of a lion etc...But he's not in the league of Xavi or Pirlo. So I'd say he's A tier, as opposed to A+.

One thing that has hurt Gerrard is that unlike the aforementioned two, he never had that one coach to take him to the next level and evolve his game. That's why he should have left Liverpool after the CL triumph in 2005. Mourinho wanted him at Chelsea, and Gerrard was at his peak. Can you imagine what a player he would have been under a tactically savvy genius like Mourinho?

The problem for Gerrard is, good as he was (and he was really good), his game never truly evolved. He was sort of a box to box midfielder but not quite, and later in his career, he didn't turn into a deep lying midfielder (which he should have) until last season with Rodgers, and by then it was too late.

Think of how Ancelotti changed Pirlo's position in 2003 with Milan and turned him into a deep lying midfielder. Think of how Conte kept Pirlo in that position but gave him a bigger offensive playmaking role... That's why he's on his way to the champions league final at the age of 36 (though he is starting to show his age this season, I must admit). Those sort of adjustments are crucial for players' evolution and longevity.

Another example would be Xavi. He was always class, but the step forward he took under Guardiola was immense. Legitimately turned into the greatest central midfielder of all time.

Paul Scholes had the benefit of being coached by Alex Ferguson for his entire career, and very few ran the game and control the pace like he did. Meanwhile, Mourinho turned Lampard from a class central midfielder into a more offensive oriented goal scoring machine.

That's what Gerrard lacked in his career. That one coach that would help his game and take him that extra mile. I feel his weakness was that he just didn't run the show and dictate the tempo of the game like Pirlo, Xavi and even Scholes. He wasn't as good a passer as these guys (and in fairness, nobody in this generation is), but he needed some nurturing in that role and he would have been even better. I think his "limitations" (and I use that word loosely as he didn't have many) showed once Alonso left for Real Madrid. Gerrard just wasn't able to run the midfield on his own.

It's odd to say considering everything he's done, but in some ways he didn't fully reach his potential, though he did come very close, and that's more than most can say.

 

[brokenshoelace]

My all-time formation (I'll leave out Maradona who, despite seeing a ton of, most of it was via tape recordings and youtube videos. Wasn't born when he was at his absolute peak).

I'll also try to make the team functional and balanced, as the above formations, great as they are, are too offense oriented, which makes sense considering many of the greats deserve a spot and are offensive players. So as a result, some names will be left out for the purpose of practicality. I'm basically making this as if I were building a real team.

The formation is 4-1-3-2.

Goalkeeper: Gianluigi Buffon.

The best Goalkeeper of the past 20 years bar none, and the best of all time IMO. The reason why I say he's the best of all time is I think goalkeeping has evolved so much in Football. From training methods to work out regimens to roles (case in point, Manuel Neuer, who's basically a libero). I think many limit goalkeeping to shot-stopping but I feel there's a distinction. Obviously you have to be a great shot-stopper, which Buffon undoubtedly is, but making great saves is not everything. In fact, Iker Casillas has probably made more miracles than Buffon and has had better reflexes in his prime, but he doesn't command the area, organize the defense, and absolutely dominate the 6-yard box like Buffon. He also has made way more mistakes, which is a testament to Buffon's technique, fundamentals, and positioning. A true titan, and an absolute footballing legend. Nobody deserves to be in the upcoming Champions League final more than this guy.

Left Back: Javier Zanetti.

What does it say about how good this guy was that I have him as my left back when he's mainly known as a right back? But that's how versatile he was. In his best ever season with Mourinho in 2010 (when Inter won the treble), Zanetti mainly played as a defensive midfielder and a left full back and excelled at both roles, despite playing "out of position" (Maicon was the right back). Ambidextrous, physical, reads the game like no other, NEVER seen him taken on, otherworldly stamina, terrific on both ends of the pitch. A legend.

Center Back: Alessandro Nesta.

The single greatest man-to-man marker I have ever seen. The greatest tackler I have ever seen. The best anticipation I have ever seen. Commanding in the air, physically imposing, quick, agile, flexible, fundamentally perfect. An absolute rock. AC Milan wouldn't have been the dominant force in 2003-2007 without him.

Center Back: Fabio Cannavaro.

Nesta may have been the best defender I've ever seen on a consistent basis, but I don't think he (or anyone else) has ever reached the highs Cannavaro did in the 2006 World Cup. The single greatest defensive display I've ever had the pleasure of watching. Italy conceded two goals all tournament: One was an own goal in the group stage, and one was a dubious penalty scored by Zidane in the world cup final. Says everything, really.

Right Back: Cafu.

Imagine this: There was a time when AC Milan's defense consisted of Cafu, Stam, Nesta and Maldini. How's that for scary? Cafu redefined his position. Yes, Brazil always produced terrific attacking full backs but unlike the likes of Roberto Carlos, Cafu actually knew how to defend too, having been a staple in Serie A with both Roma and Milan. With two world cups to his resume and another world cup final appearance, as well as two champions league trophees and two Serie A titles, they don't get much more accomplished than this guy.

Defensive Midfielder: Patrick Vieira

To be honest, good as he was, he might feel out of place compared to other guys on this list, but in his position, few were better. It just happens to be an unheralded position. It's also a relatively "recent" position, made famous by Dunga. But in his prime, Vieira was something special. Captained Arsenal to a legendary invincible EPL run, and won the world cup with France. A workhorse in midfield with underrated technique to boot.

Central Midfielder: Xavi.

Perfection. In his prime, he never set a foot wrong. Nobody had that sort of combination of vision, calm and technique. Few players free up space with a single touch like he did, and he was at the heart of arguably the greatest side in history as Barcelona terrorized Europe in the Guardiola era. Truly helped define an era of football and there wouldn't be a tiki-taka (much as I hate that term) without Xavi. Oh, and I heard the Spanish national team wasn't too bad either, and he had a thing or two to do with it.

Central midfielder: Andres Iniesta.

The most talented midfielder of this generation and the best footballer to ever come out of Spain IMO. Xavi's class is undeniable, but Barcelona and more importantly, the Spanish national team wouldn't have achieved what it did without Iniesta. He almost had all of Xavi's qualities, except he was quicker, had better technique, better dribbling, more offensively creative, etc... He really gave Spain a different dimension in the final third. Other than Lionel Messi, I've never seen a player operate in tight spaces as well as Iniesta. Legend has it that he and Xavi have given away possession a total of 3 times in their 4 seasons under Guardiola (I just made that up but it wouldn't shock me, lol).

Central midfielder: Zinedine Zidane.

Elegance, genius, efficiency, and the first touch of a god. The greatest playmaker of all time. Nuff said. Truly a once in a lifetime talent.

Forward (false 9): Lionel Messi.

I mean, it's Lionel Messi. I really don't need to add anything else.

Striker: Ronaldo (Brazil).

The greatest striker of all time. At his best, simply unstoppable.

Squad shape:

------------Buffon------------
Cafu--Nesta--Cannavaro--Zanetti
------------Vieira-----------
----Zidane--Xavi---Iniesta---
-------Messi--------------
-------------Ronaldo----------

Substitutes:
GK: Iker Casillas
D: Paulo Maldini (I don't feel good about leaving him off, so he could easily replace Zanetti)
D: Lillian Thuram
M: Andrea Pirlo
F: Ronaldinho
F: Cristiano Ronaldo
S: Thierry Henry

 

[britbox]

How good was Steven Gerrard? Superb in his prime... which is a good few years ago to tell the truth. Kieran - I loved Souness as a player, but I'd put Gerrard marginally above him.

I agree and disagree with Broken on a couple of things... Yes, I think he might have gone on to even greater heights under Mourinho. Some of which you would attribute to Jose, but even more to do with the supporting cast he would have had. (Lampard would have had to be cast aside... I couldn't see those two in the same team and Gerrard was without a shadow of doubt the superior player. That in itself was a huge issue for the England national team trying to fit both players in the same team and was an abject failure). However, Chelsea had a far better cast of players for a large part of Gerrard's career.

Joining Chelsea would have killed his relationship with the fans - he'd never have been forgiven.

The Kop generally welcome most players back after they've moved on. If a player signed for Man United or Everton then it's a little different (the former never happens directly - no player has directly moved between the clubs for something like 50 years. Michael Owen moved indirectly and the Liverpool fans couldn't give tuppence about him these days). Peter Beardsley, Gary Ablett and a handful of other players who have ended up at Everton would get a mixed reception depending on the circumstances of the their departure.

Chelsea... This is a rivalry built up over the last 10-15 years to be honest. Liverpool are historically the second biggest club in England (after Man U) based on history, national and global fan base etc... Chelsea weren't even one of the top 2 clubs in London (Spurs and Arsenal) historically but have completely changed things up by way of a Russian Billionaire named Roman Abromovich splashing out huge amounts of cash. The Chelsea usurpers will always be considered to be a club buying success and their is a huge north/south divide in England anyway - politically and culturally. Chelsea are the type of club anyone in the North would hate by default.

Bottom line... If Gerrard had gone to Chelsea he would have been considered a guy who sold his soul to the devil. He's near to royalty to Liverpool and that will continue for the rest of his life. I still think he made the right choice.

Gerrard was never a deep lying midfielder in my eyes. He was an attacking midfielder who played best behind the strikers. He needed an Alonso, Hamman or a Mascherano to hold fort. I never liked him playing the holding role at all.