Serious PC thread

[Federberg]

I thought this was a hugely fascinating discussion about the history of feminism and where we are in the current moment...

 

[Federberg]

Number one ranked university in the world folks. You can’t make this shit up!

 

[Kieran]

Number one ranked university in the world folks. You can’t make this shit up!

View attachment 7269

Once somebody feels they have to tell you their pronouns you know you’re dealing with a narcissistic look-at-me! dullard…

 

[tented]

I’m still trying to figure out why this trans mania has taken hold, so swiftly and strongly too. Ten years ago, it was nothing to say what a woman is. We all knew and had no trouble to agree about it. It’s clearly a sign that something is wrong with us when we violently embrace bad ideas as if they’re good, but why is this, and why now? I have theories, but I’d be interested to hear what others think.

I found an interesting article in the New York Times called “Report Reveals Sharp Rise in Transgender Young People in the U.S.” It’s a long piece (I think behind a paywall), so I won’t quote it in its entirety, but here are some sections worth pointing out (the remainder of this post is from that article; due to its length, I’ll reply in a separate message):

New estimates based on CDC health surveys point to a stark generational shift in the growth of the transgender population of the United States.

The number of young people who identify as transgender has nearly doubled in recent years, according to a new report that captures a stark generational shift and emerging societal embrace of a diversity of gender identities.

The analysis, relying on government health surveys conducted from 2017 to 2020, estimated that 1.4 percent of 13- to 17-year-olds and 1.3 percent of 18- to 24-year-olds were transgender, compared with about 0.5 percent of all adults.

Experts said that young people increasingly have the language and social acceptance to explore their gender identities, whereas older adults may feel more constrained. But the numbers, which vary widely from state to state, also raise questions about the role of peer influence or the political climate of the community.

“It’s developmentally appropriate for teenagers to explore all facets of their identity — that is what teenagers do,” said Dr. Angela Goepferd, medical director of the Gender Health Program at Children’s Minnesota hospital, who was not involved in the new analysis. “And, generationally, gender has become a part of someone’s identity that is more socially acceptable to explore.”

The notion of what it means to live as a transgender person is also shifting. Dr. Goepferd, who is nonbinary, noted that many teenagers would not necessarily want or need hormones or surgeries to transition to another gender, as was typical of older generations.

Although the total estimated number of transgender people was small — around 1.6 million people 13 and up, or about 0.6 percent of the population — trans identification in recent years has become political dynamite, driven in part by the rise in minors seeking medical treatments. Republican legislators across the country have sought to prohibit such care by criminalizing doctors or investigating parents for abuse, which professional medical groups have condemned.

The study found people 13 to 25 accounted for a disproportionately largely share of the transgender population. While younger teenagers were just 7.6 percent of the total U.S. population, they made up roughly 18 percent of transgender people. Likewise, 18- to 24-year-olds made up 11 percent of the total population but 24 percent of the transgender population.

Older adults had a disproportionately small share: Though 62 percent of the total population, only 47 percent of transgender people were 25 to 64. And while 20 percent of Americans are over 65, that age group makes up only 10 percent of the total number of transgender people nationwide.

Experts who work with transgender teenagers agreed that certain social factors would unquestionably play a role in their identities, just as they did decades ago when gay and lesbian people were coming out in large numbers for the first time.

“It signifies a new confidence among a new generation to be authentic in their gender identity,” said Phillip Hammack, a professor of psychology and director of the Sexual and Gender Diversity Lab at the University of California, Santa Cruz. “I think we did see something very similar — we just maybe didn’t have the exact numbers to back it up — as we saw more visibility around labeling oneself as gay, lesbian, bisexual back in the nineties.”

Social media has been a significant catalyst for teenagers questioning their gender identities today.

“I think a big part of it is definitely the internet,” said Indigo Giles, a 20-year-old college student in Austin who has protested against the state of Texas’ abuse investigations of parents of transgender children.

Mx. Giles said they realized they were nonbinary after finding a community of like-minded people on Tumblr. “People who have maybe been having these feelings for a long time, but haven’t had the words to put to them, finally can see, in such a readily accessible way, others that feel the same,” they said.

And conversely, it may be much more difficult for older people to explore their gender identities later in life.

Dr. Hammack described a person he interviewed who talked about how difficult it was to come out as nonbinary in their fifties because “we look around, and everybody’s so young.” And others who identified as masculine or butch lesbians, he said, have told him, “If I was that young, maybe I would have gone down that path, but it wasn’t available.”

 

[tented]

(Quoted sections below are from the article posted above.)

“Experts said that young people increasingly have the language and social acceptance to explore their gender identities, whereas older adults may feel more constrained. But the numbers, which vary widely from state to state, also raise questions about the role of peer influence or the political climate of the community.”

There’s a lot going on in that one paragraph. “Older adults may feel more constrained” makes sense: it’s the same pathway gays/lesbians have gone through. It used to be much more difficult to come out as gay than it is today, so I see where the trans community is experiencing the same feelings. The dark part of the paragraph is the “role of peer influence or the political climate” — peer pressure can be overwhelming to some (not all), and those vulnerable can get into situations they may not actually want to be in. In an environment in which the trans community is feeling safer to come out, the amount of peer pressure will increase accordingly. This is troublesome, and what may lead to young kids feeling pressured into at least beginning, if not going through, the process to change their sex/gender.

“The notion of what it means to live as a transgender person is also shifting. Dr. Goepferd, who is nonbinary, noted that many teenagers would not necessarily want or need hormones or surgeries to transition to another gender, as was typical of older generations.”

This is the kind of thing which sets Martina’s hair on fire — mine, too. Once again, I’m reminded of the @DarthFed scenario of a man simply stating “I’m now a woman” then feeling free to use the women’s locker room. This doctor claiming people “would not necessarily want or need hormones or surgeries to transition” is bullshit. This is how men win women’s sports competitions. (This is a sports site, so I’ll use sports as an example.)

“The study found people 13 to 25 accounted for a disproportionately largely share of the transgender population. While younger teenagers were just 7.6 percent of the total U.S. population, they made up roughly 18 percent of transgender people. Likewise, 18- to 24-year-olds made up 11 percent of the total population but 24 percent of the transgender population.”

This worries me, too. I see no logic behind kids who aren’t yet even legal adults being put through drug regiments and/or surgeries. If an underage kid still wants to transition after turning 18, they’ll be at the age when they’re in control. I think it’s inappropriate to put, say, 12 year olds through hormone therapy and/or surgery. That’s the age when teenagers change their minds all the time. Plus, they’re experiencing puberty, which could be temporarily having an outsize impact.

“Social media has been a significant catalyst for teenagers questioning their gender identities today. “I think a big part of it is definitely the internet,” said Indigo Giles, a 20-year-old college student in Austin who has protested against the state of Texas’ abuse investigations of parents of transgender children.””

At my age, I haven’t had the personal experience with social media which kids have today, but it’s clear social media can have highly negative effects, including depression, anxiety, and even suicide. (That’s not limited to trans stuff, which I hope is obvious.) This is the peer pressure aspect again, pushing kids to do things they don’t want to do, but feel they must do in order to fit in.

 

[Kieran]

(Quoted sections below are from the article posted above.)

“Experts said that young people increasingly have the language and social acceptance to explore their gender identities, whereas older adults may feel more constrained. But the numbers, which vary widely from state to state, also raise questions about the role of peer influence or the political climate of the community.”

There’s a lot going on in that one paragraph. “Older adults may feel more constrained” makes sense: it’s the same pathway gays/lesbians have gone through. It used to be much more difficult to come out as gay than it is today, so I see where the trans community is experiencing the same feelings. The dark part of the paragraph is the “role of peer influence or the political climate” — peer pressure can be overwhelming to some (not all), and those vulnerable can get into situations they may not actually want to be in. In an environment in which the trans community is feeling safer to come out, the amount of peer pressure will increase accordingly. This is troublesome, and what may lead to young kids feeling pressured into at least beginning, if not going through, the process to change their sex/gender.

“The notion of what it means to live as a transgender person is also shifting. Dr. Goepferd, who is nonbinary, noted that many teenagers would not necessarily want or need hormones or surgeries to transition to another gender, as was typical of older generations.”

This is the kind of thing which sets Martina’s hair on fire — mine, too. Once again, I’m reminded of the @DarthFed scenario of a man simply stating “I’m now a woman” then feeling free to use the women’s locker room. This doctor claiming people “would not necessarily want or need hormones or surgeries to transition” is bullshit. This is how men win women’s sports competitions. (This is a sports site, so I’ll use sports as an example.)

“The study found people 13 to 25 accounted for a disproportionately largely share of the transgender population. While younger teenagers were just 7.6 percent of the total U.S. population, they made up roughly 18 percent of transgender people. Likewise, 18- to 24-year-olds made up 11 percent of the total population but 24 percent of the transgender population.”

This worries me, too. I see no logic behind kids who aren’t yet even legal adults being put through drug regiments and/or surgeries. If an underage kid still wants to transition after turning 18, they’ll be at the age when they’re in control. I think it’s inappropriate to put, say, 12 year olds through hormone therapy and/or surgery. That’s the age when teenagers change their minds all the time. Plus, they’re experiencing puberty, which could be temporarily having an outsize impact.

“Social media has been a significant catalyst for teenagers questioning their gender identities today. “I think a big part of it is definitely the internet,” said Indigo Giles, a 20-year-old college student in Austin who has protested against the state of Texas’ abuse investigations of parents of transgender children.””

At my age, I haven’t had the personal experience with social media which kids have today, but it’s clear social media can have highly negative effects, including depression, anxiety, and even suicide. (That’s not limited to trans stuff, which I hope is obvious.) This is the peer pressure aspect again, pushing kids to do things they don’t want to do, but feel they must do in order to fit in.

Great post. And there’s a distinction in there between actual people with gender dysphoria who have a terrible time coming forward - “coming out” - and dealing with this, and kids who are either groomed or feeling pressure to keep up with and join this modern social fad.

Gender dysphoria is a thing, and it’s difficult for people who have it. They struggle with themselves, feeling that they’re not the gender they’re born to but knowing that they’re not the gender they think they should be. Transitioning is the only way they can handle this, but they still have to live with the fact that theirs is a mental condition, and that the treatment is extreme and leaves them living as an anomaly,

The modern gender social construct of transgenderism is not the same as this. It’s a social phenomenon based upon a false idea of what gender is, and it’s actually harming people who suffer from gender dysphoria, and people who don’t…

 

[Kieran]

More gender fetishism, more of the same same bad ideas being taken seriously. Folks, have you heard yet about Skoliosexuality?

“Skoliosexuality means different things to different people,” says Laura Lee Townsend, a California-based clinical therapist. Most saliently, it refers to someone who is attracted to non-binary individuals — those who don't identify as only male or female, she tells Mic.

Translation:

“Skoliosexuality is meaningless term in which we’ve randomly invested meaning, for absolutely no reason other than that we can,” says Laura Lee Townsend, a rainbow-haired Californian non binary gender-reactionary whose pronouns are dip/shit. Most saliently, it refers to someone who is bigoted against those who identify as only male or female, she tells Mic.

 

[El Dude]

My first thought was that it referred to people who are attracted to those with scoliosis.

 

[tented]

My first thought was that it referred to people who are attracted to those with scoliosis.

Sshh! Don’t give anyone ideas!

 

[Moxie]

Sshh! Don’t give anyone ideas!

If people sexualizing dressing up in baby diapers is a thing, this probably is, too.

 

[Kieran]

If people sexualizing dressing up in baby diapers is a thing, this probably is, too.

There used to be a seedy channel 4 show called Eurothrash which lived up to its name. It was filthy stuff really, short news reports populated by tales of porn stars, druggy actors, bestiality, sex therapists, orgies, garish luminous fashions and cheesy euro-pop music, truly lowbrow stuff that was unmissable, I watched it religiously, and one episode featured fat businessmen wearing diapers and rubber face masks, being led around on dog leashes by long limbed “therapists” in skimpy negligees and stilettos, who spanked the naughty boys and trod on their spines with these knifelike heels while the chubby patients sucked on huge dummies and purred like kittens. It was a therapy I’m not wealthy or fat enough to try, thankfully, though sometimes I wonder if it might help me…

 

[Moxie]

(Quoted sections below are from the article posted above.)

“Experts said that young people increasingly have the language and social acceptance to explore their gender identities, whereas older adults may feel more constrained. But the numbers, which vary widely from state to state, also raise questions about the role of peer influence or the political climate of the community.”

There’s a lot going on in that one paragraph. “Older adults may feel more constrained” makes sense: it’s the same pathway gays/lesbians have gone through. It used to be much more difficult to come out as gay than it is today, so I see where the trans community is experiencing the same feelings. The dark part of the paragraph is the “role of peer influence or the political climate” — peer pressure can be overwhelming to some (not all), and those vulnerable can get into situations they may not actually want to be in. In an environment in which the trans community is feeling safer to come out, the amount of peer pressure will increase accordingly. This is troublesome, and what may lead to young kids feeling pressured into at least beginning, if not going through, the process to change their sex/gender.

I agree, to what I think you are saying is a certain "fadish-ness" to genderqueer identifying amongst young people. I'm perfectly happy if modes of rebelliousness, and exploring of self-expression fall in this way, these days, but not as much with hormone altering therapies, and certainly not body-altering surgeries until a certain majority is obtained. Some of it feels like the old "lesbian-until-graduation" of the 90s. You do you, but don't get the tattoo, if you know what I'm saying.

“The notion of what it means to live as a transgender person is also shifting. Dr. Goepferd, who is nonbinary, noted that many teenagers would not necessarily want or need hormones or surgeries to transition to another gender, as was typical of older generations.”

This is the kind of thing which sets Martina’s hair on fire — mine, too. Once again, I’m reminded of the @DarthFed scenario of a man simply stating “I’m now a woman” then feeling free to use the women’s locker room. This doctor claiming people “would not necessarily want or need hormones or surgeries to transition” is bullshit. This is how men win women’s sports competitions. (This is a sports site, so I’ll use sports as an example.)

As to the issue of trans women in women's sports, I totally agree. If your choice is to transition to female, you give up the right to compete against women in sports. Trans games or nothing.

“The study found people 13 to 25 accounted for a disproportionately largely share of the transgender population. While younger teenagers were just 7.6 percent of the total U.S. population, they made up roughly 18 percent of transgender people. Likewise, 18- to 24-year-olds made up 11 percent of the total population but 24 percent of the transgender population.”

This worries me, too. I see no logic behind kids who aren’t yet even legal adults being put through drug regiments and/or surgeries. If an underage kid still wants to transition after turning 18, they’ll be at the age when they’re in control. I think it’s inappropriate to put, say, 12 year olds through hormone therapy and/or surgery. That’s the age when teenagers change their minds all the time. Plus, they’re experiencing puberty, which could be temporarily having an outsize impact.

“Social media has been a significant catalyst for teenagers questioning their gender identities today. “I think a big part of it is definitely the internet,” said Indigo Giles, a 20-year-old college student in Austin who has protested against the state of Texas’ abuse investigations of parents of transgender children.””

At my age, I haven’t had the personal experience with social media which kids have today, but it’s clear social media can have highly negative effects, including depression, anxiety, and even suicide. (That’s not limited to trans stuff, which I hope is obvious.) This is the peer pressure aspect again, pushing kids to do things they don’t want to do, but feel they must do in order to fit in.

Social media is a catalyst for a lot of issues that young people have to day, if I'm willing to sound like that old person. They seem to be suffering from a lot of anxiety and pressure, and fear of the misstep on social media, as it has been described to me. I don't even know what to say about this anymore, except that I'm glad I'm not raising a teenager, or 20-something right now.

 

[Federberg]

A friend of mine sent this to me. HIs girlfriend knows this stuff irritates me. So... here's a question about feelings? Since progressives seem to think that's all that matters. How about the fucking feelings of the men who don't want to be sleeping with biological men?? How about their feelings?

 

[Moxie]

A friend of mine sent this to me. HIs girlfriend knows this stuff irritates me. So... here's a question about feelings? Since progressives seem to think that's all that matters. How about the fucking feelings of the men who don't want to be sleeping with biological men?? How about their feelings?

h

How about they don't have sex with people before they get to know them a little better? And if they're meeting people at strip clubs, obviously their chance of things that surprise them, like STDs, and trans people, increases. Lap dance with benefits? Skanky bathroom sex? Are you asking me to worry about the "feelings" of those men who get a surprise? I'm having a hard time manufacturing concern for their feelings. And I did watch the video. (Or half-way. The audio was terrible. Tell me if I missed some over-arching point by the end.)

 

[Federberg]

How about they don't have sex with people before they get to know them a little better? And if they're meeting people at strip clubs, obviously their chance of things that surprise them, like STDs, and trans people, increases. Lap dance with benefits? Skanky bathroom sex? Are you asking me to worry about the "feelings" of those men who get a surprise? I'm having a hard time manufacturing concern for their feelings. And I did watch the video. (Or half-way. The audio was terrible. Tell me if I missed some over-arching point by the end.)

while I don't oppose the opinion that people should be more discriminating about their sexual encounters, you have made the case several times that we should accept trans-genders because they're not affecting anyone else. Others have made the point that no one objects to whatever people want to do with themselves, as long as it doesn't impose changes on others. When you have to start asking if a person is the gender you're interested in, it's a fucking problem. When a man has to worry that a partner he's selected (and I have heard of this happening increasingly) because he wants to get married and have a family... it's a fucking problem. So have difficulty manufacturing concern for 'those men' if you want, but your position is flawed. The world doesn't need the faux morality and concern of those who think they're superior. We just need the application of basic common-sense, the world has worked pretty damn well for ages. In my view this type of fraud should be a crime

 

[Federberg]

Obama gets it. Dems need to stop using identity politics. Virtue signalling, lecturing BS... It's really stupid, and it's exclusionary... politics 101

 

[Kieran]

A friend of mine sent this to me. HIs girlfriend knows this stuff irritates me. So... here's a question about feelings? Since progressives seem to think that's all that matters. How about the fucking feelings of the men who don't want to be sleeping with biological men?? How about their feelings?

While I’m delighted to see @Moxie preach the old virtues of sexual abstinence until you know a person well enough - I think many an unwanted pregnancy might be averted if this was still taught, and practiced - you know, I think that if the boot was on the other foot in this matter, and a heterosexual man tricked a lesbian this way, the reaction should be the same: it’s disgusting, it’s sexual abuse, it’s deserving of punishment. The reaction on behalf of the lesbian would be outrage and a defence of her rights. I think this is the correct reaction. Most men would be embarrassed to come forward and admit that they’d be duped by a Frankengeezer, and they might deal with in ways that are more destructive - either to themselves or to the other man in question…

 

[Federberg]

While I’m delighted to see @Moxie preach the old virtues of sexual abstinence until you know a person well enough - I think many an unwanted pregnancy might be averted if this was still taught, and practiced - you know, I think that if the boot was on the other foot in this matter, and a heterosexual man tricked a lesbian this way, the reaction should be the same: it’s disgusting, it’s sexual abuse, it’s deserving of punishment. The reaction on behalf of the lesbian would be outrage and a defence of her rights. I think this is the correct reaction. Most men would be embarrassed to come forward and admit that they’d be duped by a Frankengeezer, and they might deal with in ways that are more destructive - either to themselves or to the other man in question…

BOOM! So true. When it comes to men, there's never a defence for them. Shoe on the other foot... the trick book comes out. I recall years ago watching an Oprah show, where a wife was unfaithful. The number of excuses and rationalisations for her infidelity... in the end they were all looking at the husband blaming him The blatant gas lighting would have been comedic, if one didn't realise it could happen to you as well

 

[Moxie]

while I don't oppose the opinion that people should be more discriminating about their sexual encounters, you have made the case several times that we should accept trans-genders because they're not affecting anyone else. Others have made the point that no one objects to whatever people want to do with themselves, as long as it doesn't impose changes on others. When you have to start asking if a person is the gender you're interested in, it's a fucking problem. When a man has to worry that a partner he's selected (and I have heard of this happening increasingly) because he wants to get married and have a family... it's a fucking problem.

Are we not talking about a strip here? Having one-night stands with an exotic dancer? Hard to understand all of it as that one chick kept shoving food in her mouth while she was talking. What if the whole episode passed and the man never knew. Would it matter?

So have difficulty manufacturing concern for 'those men' if you want, but your position is flawed. The world doesn't need the faux morality and concern of those who think they're superior. We just need the application of basic common-sense, the world has worked pretty damn well for ages. In my view this type of fraud should be a crime

Is it such a shock to these guys that there are trans women at a strip club? Thus my lack of outrage in this particular case.

 

[Moxie]

While I’m delighted to see @Moxie preach the old virtues of sexual abstinence until you know a person well enough - I think many an unwanted pregnancy might be averted if this was still taught, and practiced - you know, I think that if the boot was on the other foot in this matter, and a heterosexual man tricked a lesbian this way, the reaction should be the same: it’s disgusting, it’s sexual abuse, it’s deserving of punishment. The reaction on behalf of the lesbian would be outrage and a defence of her rights. I think this is the correct reaction. Most men would be embarrassed to come forward and admit that they’d be duped by a Frankengeezer, and they might deal with in ways that are more destructive - either to themselves or to the other man in question…

This argument is completely nonsensical, certainly not parallel. How would a heterosexual man "tricking" a lesbian be the equivalent? The transexual woman being discussed in the video is into men, she's just not telling them she used to have a penis. Right? So, wouldn't shoe on the other foot be a trans man picking up women and not telling them he doesn't actually have a penis? Or anyway, that he can't father children?